Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

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Show me where I have or anyone has used the word "sinless".

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Are you sinless when walking "in the Spirit" JLB???

 

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A lot of believers can "do the dance" for a long long time before they'll admit that their indwelling sin and evil present with them CAN NOT WALK IN THE SPIRIT, ever.

Nor can we say we DON'T have indwelling sin/evil present and be IN TRUTH because that is LYING.

Romans 7:17-21.

God LIKES His children to NOT LIE:

Isaiah 63:8
For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

How was Isaiah NOT LYING?

When Isaiah looked upon himself HONESTLY:

Isaiah 6:5
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

Do you see Isaiah LYING about how good he was when "walking in the Spirit?"

Isaiah TOLD THE TRUTH. That's how we know he was IN THE SPIRIT of TRUTH.

 

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We don't make our indwelling sin and evil present with us ONE BIT BETTER by walking in the Spirit.

We expose these workings, truthfully, BY BEING IN TRUTH.

Have a look at another TRUTH TELLER. Jeremiah devoted a great deal of writing "personal lamentations" about his own state, truthfully:

Lam. 1:
20 Behold, O Lord; for I am in distress: my bowels are troubled; mine heart is turned within me; for I have grievously rebelled: abroad the sword bereaveth, at home there is as death.

Read Lamentations 3 and you'll hear cries so deep and true, your ears will rebel and your eyes will reject, unless you are IN TRUTH, speaking TRUTHFULLY.

Hear is another TRUTH TELLER:

Daniel 9:5
We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

You think Daniel was "excusing himself" from these equations?

NEVER!!!

 

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In my many long years of "church" I've met very very few believers who will or even can say that indwelling sin does what it does and it is not them, as Romans 7:17 & 20 states. Few that will say that evil is present with them. And even fewer, much much fewer, who KNOW that their sin is OF THE DEVIL. I have met a handful, here and there however. I might term them a "remnant," a handful of believers who actually tell the truth on these subjects.

Most like to have their ears tickled instead.

Welcome to having them burned to a crisp with the scriptural facts. IF you get a feeling of anger when hearing your sin is of the devil, it's not you.

The destruction that is promised to come and to fall, BY JESUS, will fall quite precisely upon US, first.

Are you ready to take on that part of HIS LIVING WORDS? OR do you prefer living in a vile body that has indwelling sin/evil present/death and making excuses for it?

We tend to run away as fast as possible against DIVINE ADVERSE JUDGMENTS.

When in fact it is our very HOPE to rid us of the vile body, with evil present, indwelling sin and our adversary, active against us.

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

When JUDGMENT first came to the "house of God" Ananias and Sapphira were STRUCK DEAD for LYING.

Now, who really wants to be THAT CLOSE to THE TRUTH?

 

[childeye]

You seem to have completely opposite claims running there childeye.

We all get stolen from because we all see only in part, and as through glass, darkly. 1 Cor. 13:12.
NONE of us see Perfectly.

I think you have a valid point up to a point. Which is why the phrase "ending in silence" in the OP implies to me, the petty futility of splitting hairs deep into meta-physical quantum mechanics, while theorizing that faith is the actual substance upon which all things are built. Yet here we are, Blah,Blah, Blah.

However, I'm not sure 1 Corinthians 13:12 is appropriate to apply with Matthew 13:19. Matthew 13:19 does not speak of a word that is understood in part nor stolen in part. It implies that the person doesn't understand the word at all. Whereas the context of 1 Corinthians 13:12 is about maturing in Christ unto perfection. To me the context of that scripture is meant to say that only God holds the other part that can say for certain who I am, even as I ascertain Who God is. As if deductive and inductive reasoning as pertains to personal identity are happening between God and mankind from faith to faith. Hence even faith exists for the sake of Love.

The relationship with indwelling sin and the law is NOT a matter of the relationship between US AS BELIEVERS and Gods Word, Works and Ways.

This is true in the sense that the law is not of faith. But that doesn't mean that the recognition of indwelling sin is not a matter of the relationship between us as believers and God's Word. It depends upon what you mean by that. Certainly the Old Testament came before the New Testament and the shadow of the substance is not the substance. Still it was necessary that it come in that order so as to instill a realization of the need for the Spirit to fulfill the letter. The us is only recognized in contrast to what is not us.

 

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God is WILLING, ever WILLING to bring WRATH.

Are we really WILLING to receive it?

IF we see GODS WRATH is due to "NO MORE I," to "evil present with us," to "sin which is of the DEVIL," then why do we hesitate to receive it?

Romans 9:
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

IF we know that this present WICKED world is suffering under the influences of Satan and his messengers, WHY would we, for a minute, hesitate to see WRATH? It makes no sense to NOT want to see it, from our perspectives. It's actually something we should WANT to see.

Far be it from me to know the time, when God says enough is enough. I do know however, when that time comes, WHO His Wrath is FOR.

Isaiah 25:7
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

Ezekiel 28:16
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

And most of us are just not used to having these disclosures, put so close to "home." We like our covers, our bed and our religious cloth insulation.

Isaiah 28:20
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

 

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I think you have a valid point up to a point. Which is why the phrase "ending in silence" in the OP implies to me, the petty futility of splitting hairs deep into meta-physical quantum mechanics, while theorizing that faith is the actual substance upon which all things are built. Yet here we are, Blah,Blah, Blah.

I very much look forward to THE DAY when evil present within all of us IS SILENCED.

How bout you?

 

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Before, prior to SILENCE, will come the FRENZY:

Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Have you not noticed? cough cough...

1 Cor. 15:
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Deuteronomy 28:65
And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:

Luke 21:26
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

You think this kingdom isn't what God has in mind in this?

Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Do you, as a believer, KNOW the converse power that is involved by holding UP the LAW?

Here, a LAW was upheld:

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

And half the people in the churches promote that the other half might instead be burned alive forever.

Don't you see what happened? There was a TRAIN WRECK that happened when indwelling sin/evil present MET LAW.

It's called JUDGMENT FALLS.

 

[childeye]

I very much look forward to THE DAY when evil present within all of us IS SILENCED.

How bout you?

On one hand I would enjoy the peace and contentment of being above reproach. On the other hand, I would kind of hate to see God lose his footstool.

 

[th1b.taylor]

In my scriptural opinion, no believer still has a sin 'nature'. We still have sin in the flesh, but we do not have a sin 'nature'. In the very core of our being we are united with Christ via the Holy Spirit, and that makes us new creations: "17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." (2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB italics in original, bold mine)

A pastor explained it like this. Before we were born again, righteousness was the invading enemy force that we chaffed against, and sin was the thing we so longed to embrace. But now as born again, Spirit-sealed Christians sin is the invading enemy force that we chaff against, and righteousness is the thing we long to embrace. There has been a fundamental change of nature within us.

It is from the flesh that the temptations to sin arise. They don't come from the new, transformed us. What remains until the day of redemption is the flesh body that has yet to be glorified, and it is from that flesh that we struggle with sin. I say struggle with sin, not embrace it willingly like we did before we became new creations in Christ when our struggle was with righteousness.

Paul describes the change within us as a change of marriage partner (Romans 7:1-6 NASB). Before Christ, we were 'married' to sinful flesh, the law acting as a kind of legal marriage license that kept us bound in obedience to marriage partner 'flesh' (Romans 7:5 NASB). But when 'flesh' died on the cross with Jesus we were no longer legally bound by the law to have to stay in marital obedience to old husband 'flesh', because marriage ends when the husband dies--Romans 7:3 NASB. A death has occurred, so we are now free to be joined in marital obedience and submission to a new marriage partner, Jesus Christ, to whom we now bear fruit (Romans 7:4 NASB).

Paul calls our old life before Christ as being 'in the flesh' (Romans 7:5 NASB, Romans 8:9 NASB). But he says we are no longer 'in the flesh' if we have the Spirit of God in us. He didn't say we are are no longer in the flesh when we obey the Spirit. He says that just by virtue of having the Holy Spirit in us we are no longer 'in the flesh' (Romans 8:9 NASB). That's where I see the truth that we no longer have a sin nature, but rather the new nature of Christ. As Christians, we are no longer 'in the flesh'.

Pastor Owen Dry explained it this way, there is a punishment for murder that was used to punish murderers that were caught before the victim was buried. In this case the Murdered is the Old Man and the Murderer is the New Man, the Saved from Punishment for his Sins, Man. The carcass of the victim is strapped onto the back of the offender and remained there until it killed it´s murderer. In like manor, we have the old man with us and it keeps wanting to kill us and will remain that way until we have our Glorified Bodies.

 

[JLB]

Are you sinless when walking "in the Spirit" JLB???

Sinless is what you are hung up on, and keep referring to.

Since our mortal body contains sin, we will not become "sinless" or "without sin" until we receive our resurrected bodies that are not corrupt.

When walking in the Spirit, we don't fulfill the lustful desires of the flesh, which means our actions are righteous as they have their source from the righteous life of Jesus Christ within, rather than being from the sinful desires that originate from our flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh...



Living a life, whose actions express the sinful cravings of our flesh, are what Paul warns against in the following verse's, with the consequences.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



JLB

 

[JLB]

I very much look forward to THE DAY when evil present within all of us IS SILENCED.

Today is the day to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Galatians 6:8


Try investing yourself toward the things of the Spirit, and not the things of the flesh.



JLB

 

[JLB]

A lot of believers can "do the dance" for a long long time before they'll admit that their indwelling sin and evil present with them CAN NOT WALK IN THE SPIRIT, ever.

We are told to walk according to the Spirit, and not according to the flesh.

If you can't control yourself then you need to receive the Holy Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is self control.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:22-24



JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

There will always be Romans 3:10 & 23 the makes a lie of the Holiness Movement and as much as any man serving God will want to be holy in the sense that God is holy, we cannot achieve that state without the Glorified Body and we will not recieve that before the Rapture.

 

[Chopper]

I certainly respect and honor your position on the flesh nature in a redeemed person. If you don't believe that a saved person has no sin nature, you're at liberty to believe what your heart and teachings dictate. I see 1 Corinthians 15 teaching a sin nature until the resurrection. If smaller is right, Jesus had a human nature until He was resurrected, then it was gone. That's what I believe Paul is teaching in 1 Corinthians 15.

1Corinthians 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Obviously we are viewing a saved individual. The use of the word "natural" is the same as the word "nature" Strong's says these words mean...."as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly])."
Total KJV occurrences: 151

O well, someday we'll know the truth.

 

[JLB]

Jesus had a human nature until He was resurrected, then it was gone.

How is it gone?

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 1 Corinthians 15:12-14

He Himself, with His same body was resurrected from the dead.



JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

How is it gone?

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 1 Corinthians 15:12-14

He Himself, with His same body was resurrected from the dead.



JLB

At the very worst He is in the Resurrected Body, free of temptation.

 

[JLB]

At the very worst He is in the Resurrected Body, free of temptation.

The same Jesus Christ who was buried, was raised from the dead, meaning, He is still a Man who was resurrected.

Likewise we will be further clothed with immortality, when we are resurrected from the dead.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 5:2-5


JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

The same Jesus Christ who was buried, was raised from the dead, meaning, He is still a Man who was resurrected.

Likewise we will be further clothed with immortality, when we are resurrected from the dead.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 5:2-5


JLB

You are reading around Chopper and around me. Then you pump your pride up to just below bursting, build a straw man and run it through with your white stead and silver lance. I never said Jesus was not in a glorified Human Body. I might have left the word, Human, off but I do not figure you for a fool, either. and yet you rail.

 

[JLB]

YOU just finished trying to claim a sinner was the unsaved. Now you're back to not being sinless as a believer, therefore A SINNER.

Maybe better figure out what you really mean and stick to it? Your positions seem to be like mercury. Can't really put your finger on it as it always slides away.

More of your opinion with no scripture. 2