There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[Mustard Seed]

That's the tricky one... Of course In the image of God.

Okay... Christ Bless you and Keep you, Sibling in Him!

If you SEE Jesus, YOU'VE SEEN the Father... yet... ug... NOONE has SEEN The Father...

But... Check this out... If I've Seen You, I've Seen your SPIRIT, but yet, ONLY you "SEE your own Spirit, Spiritually speaking".

Your Soul is intertwined with the INDWELLING of Christ's HOLY SOUL.

Do you see it?

 

[Dmytro]

Okay... Christ Bless you and Keep you, Sibling in Him!

If you SEE Jesus, YOU'VE SEEN the Father... yet... ug... NOONE has SEEN The Father...

But... Check this out... If I've Seen You, I've Seen your SPIRIT, but yet, ONLY you "SEE your own Spirit, Spiritually speaking".

Your Soul is intertwined with the INDWELLING of Christ's HOLY SOUL.

Do you see it?

Not sure what exactly you mean... but... I would say yes, I really believe in Jesus

 

[LeviR]

He did say not only that He was the Son of God in this passage, He said that Abraham Witnessed His departure from His Glorious Realm of heavenn to become a baby :

". 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

And He also said He was God in the next breath:
"58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

The text does not say Abraham witnessed His departure from heaven to become a baby.
Most commentators say Abraham was seeing from afar, by faith, Jesus’s day. The Jewish commentators suggest the same and think Abraham had seen Jesus’ day while he was put under a deep sleep and shown the day of the Exodus.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Not sure what exactly you mean... but... I would say yes, I really believe in Jesus

Jesus, The Son, Is the very Physical Presence of God!

The Father is the very Uncontainable essence of the Infinite Being, The very SPIRIT of GOD that is unseeable and not only eternal, but Infinite!

The HOLY GHOST is the VERY SOUL of God! When Jesus died on the Cross, His Holy Ghost was made alive in Sheol... where He broke many Souls out of. Would you like the bible verse?

God, too, is Body, Soul and Spirit, like us.

Only, HIS setup is infinitely more amazing, sincere and just plain... WOW!

 

[LeviR]

Jesus, The Son, Is the very Physical Presence of God!

The Father is the very Uncontainable essence of the Infinite Being, The very SPIRIT of GOD that is unseeable and not only eternal, but Infinite!

The HOLY GHOST is the VERY SOUL of God! When Jesus died on the Cross, His Holy Ghost was made alive in Sheol... where He broke many Souls out of. Would you like the bible verse?

God, too, is Body, Soul and Spirit, like us.

Only, HIS setup is infinitely more amazing, sincere and just plain... WOW!

I’d like to see the verse where Jesus, while he was dead, went anywhere. Anyone dead and in the grave stays in the grave. The hope is to be raised from the grave immortal to die no more.

 

[Mustard Seed]

I’d like to see the verse where Jesus, while he was dead, went anywhere. Anyone dead and in the grave stays in the grave. The hope is to be raised from the grave immortal to die no more.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,
the righteous for the unrighteous,
that He might bring you to God,
after being put to death in the fleshly realm
but made alive in the spiritual realm.
19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits [Ghost's] in prison 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Not sure what exactly you mean... but... I would say yes, I really believe in Jesus

I LOVE YOU, SIBLING IN HIM! I apologize for earlier suggesting that you would be Hard to Scripture! You are contrite, humble and Bow to Jesus and His revelations within scripture!

Let no man ever take that away from you! Biblical Canon, ONLY! 1 John 2:27 Only! Discussion like this is what God intended!

You are a rarity! It has been an honor to discuss Jesus and Scripture with you!

All Love In Jesus Christ, our Lord and sole source of Salvation, to you!

 

[LeviR]

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,
the righteous for the unrighteous,
that He might bring you to God,
after being put to death in the fleshly realm
but made alive in the spiritual realm.
19 In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits [Ghost's] in prison 20 who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared.

What translation is that?
Those words are not in the Greek text. May I suggest a literal version?

I like the NKJV, it’s one of the most literal.

18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead was in Noah who preached during the days before the flood.

 

[Mustard Seed]

What translation is that?
Those words are not in the Greek text. May I suggest a literal version?

I like the NKJV, it’s one of the most literal.

18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead was in Noah who preached during the days before the flood.

Holeman CSB... It was taken from more manuscripts than any other translation... and utilized fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I find it to be "Almost" solid for reading and prophetic points of passages.

I frequently "Translation Sift" at any verse that is complicated... IE I look it up on the computer and have it slam out ALL English Translations for the same verse. I will go to the interlinear if I'm still not sure. I'll be praying the entire time!

The Apostles held to this doctrine, per the earliest writings available. Some Creeds cite this event as "Christ descended into Hell". Unfortunately, it is misunderstood by many, now. Creeds and spoon feeding have weakened the Body's understanding.

BUT, there's hope! Here we all are, joined in the name of Jesus, excited to discuss His Majesty!

 

[Mustard Seed]

Not sure what exactly you mean... but... I would say yes, I really believe in Jesus

I don't like many sermons... but I'm partial to this one. It's short. I think you'll enjoy it! All Love to you In Jesus, Sibling in Him!

 

[LeviR]

Holeman CSB... It was taken from more manuscripts than any other translation... and utilized fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I find it to be "Almost" solid for reading and prophetic points of passages.

I frequently "Translation Sift" at any verse that is complicated... IE I look it up on the computer and have it slam out ALL English Translations for the same verse. I will go to the interlinear if I'm still not sure. I'll be praying the entire time!

The Apostles held to this doctrine, per the earliest writings available. Some Creeds cite this event as "Christ descended into Hell". Unfortunately, it is misunderstood by many, now. Creeds and spoon feeding have weakened the Body's understanding.

BUT, there's hope! Here we all are, joined in the name of Jesus, excited to discuss His Majesty!

The spirits that are said to be in prison were not yet there while Noah was preaching. They were put there during the flood.
It was the Spirit of Christ that was in Noah. Not Christ himself.
Christ himself spent three days in the grave, rose from the grave, was seen by Mary, ascended to the Father, return from the Father, spent forty days being seen by many, then returned again to the Father, and still sits there with the Father.

 

[Mustard Seed]

The spirits that are said to be in prison were not yet there while Noah was preaching. They were put there during the flood.
It was the Spirit of Christ that was in Noah. Not Christ himself.
Christ himself spent three days in the grave, rose from the grave, was seen by Mary, ascended to the Father, return from the Father, spent forty days being seen by many, then returned again to the Father, and still sits there with the Father.

I cannot force this passage on you. It is as you and the Spirit within you desire to see it. I can assure you this, if it's the ghost part... Jesus indeed believed in the existence of disembodied humans. Would this assist, if I provided scripture?

 

[Runningman]

Rev. 3:14 doesn't says Jesus was created
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
“This is what the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator[d] of God’s creation, says:

The word arché is translated as "beginning" in most of the New Testament and Jesus being the originator of God's creation doesn't match the Bible. For starters, Jesus isn't God so Jesus isn't the Creator. The Bible says God is the Creator and is eternal. How could Jesus be eternal when he didn't always exist? Which verse says he always existed? None.

 

[LeviR]

I cannot force this passage on you. It is as you and the Spirit within you desire to see it. I can assure you this, if it's the ghost part... Jesus indeed believed in the existence of disembodied humans. Would this assist, if I provided scripture?

If I ever see a ghost I’ll call the Ghostbusters.

 

[Mustard Seed]

If I ever see a ghost I’ll call the Ghostbusters.

Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit (ghost) hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”

Matthew 14:26 But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” and they cried out in fear.

 

[Runningman]

I'm not trying convince you of anything , you believe what you want.
I am just curious how you reconcile in your mind the fact that God's creation of everything in the universe is accounted for in scripture , except for the single solitary creation of His Masterpiece Jesus ?
You still have answered ?
I'm not interested in arguing, I'm just curious as to how a person reconciles the fact that Jesus is both the greatest creation of God and the only creation God was silent about ?
I can't do it .
I just want to know how you account for God's total silence on the creation of Jesus .
Curious to me that by your alleging that I am trying to argue you out of something you have ruled out the possibility of convincing me of something?
Why don't you approach the question from the standpoint that you might be convincing me of something.
We'll never know unless you just tell me how it makes sense to you that the creation of Jesus is the only creation God has never detailed
I think you do not believe it makes any sense yourself and that is why you are so afraid to answer the question straight up .

Seems you didn't read my last reply where I said God created Jesus because he created humans. Not sure where you're getting the idea that a special section devoted to the creation of Jesus needs to be mentioned when Jesus is included in the creation of humans. It's mentioned numerous places and I'll show you another soon, but on the matter of things the Bible doesn't go into specific detail about. How about the Trinity?

No mention of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together as the Triune Godhead in probably 99% of scriptures. There are a few one-off verses that mention these names/titles together without calling them the Trinity or explaining how they are all together God. Nothing about preaching the Trinity in the Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, Peter's letters, Jude, James, Hebrews or Revelation. Nothing about needing to believe Jesus is God or believe in the Trinity as an integral part of the gospel.

I want to mention something else for the readers because I have noticed there are a lot of Reformed theologians here. Calvin never said belief in the Trinity or Jesus as God is necessary for salvation. Look through his Institutes and sermons. There's nothing about it. If anyone happens to research this and finds anything to the contrary, I would really like to know because I have already looked into what Calvin taught myself, but I digress.

Below Adam and Jesus are both said to be created. Jesus wasn't the first man, but the second man. Adam from earth, Jesus from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15
45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
46The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

 

[LeviR]

The word arché is translated as "beginning" in most of the New Testament and Jesus being the originator of God's creation doesn't match the Bible. For starters, Jesus isn't God so Jesus isn't the Creator. The Bible says God is the Creator and is eternal. How could Jesus be eternal when he didn't always exist? Which verse says he always existed? None.

The creation in which Jesus is the beginning is the creation of those raised from the dead immortal.
That creation could not exist without Christ.
Christ is the firstborn of that creation. Meaning he is the Chief of all those born from the dead.

 

[Runningman]

The creation in which Jesus is the beginning is the creation of those raised from the dead immortal.
That creation could not exist without Christ.
Christ is the firstborn of that creation. Meaning he is the Chief of all those born from the dead.

I agree and I wasn't even ready to go into the context of what this is actually talking about. I am glad to hear you say that since most people don't recognize that or rather refuse to.

 

[LeviR]

Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit (ghost) hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”

Matthew 14:26 But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” and they cried out in fear.

When Jesus appeared to them in the room, they could not explain how he got there. They imagined they saw a spirit or phantom.
Jesus is not confirming phantoms are real, he was only confirming he was not one of them.
Jesus was there but they could not yet see him because he had not yet opened their eyes so they may.

 

[Mustard Seed]

When Jesus appeared to them in the room, they could not explain how he got there. They imagined they saw a spirit or phantom.
Jesus is not confirming phantoms are real, he was only confirming he was not one of them.
Jesus was there but they could not yet see him because he had not yet opened their eyes so they may.

This is fair. But, Jesus specifically stated that "Spirits" "Ghosts" do not have flesh and bones. That's God confirming a matter. If Disembodied souls didn't exist, He would have said, why do you believe in these things that are not true... then he would have proceeded to continue His dialogue, in my opinion.