There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[LeviR]

The carnal mind cannot perceive what the spiritual mind can.

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Thomas was one whom Jesus identified himself as the Father. Even though Jesus was the son of the Father,, he was identifying himself as the Father.
Thomas doubted how that could be. But when he saw the risen son of the Father, the man Jesus, he said “My Lord and my God” . It was an acknowledgment of the identity Jesus had made of himself with the Father.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Reformatted and Proofed.. Sorry for the repost.

In Hebrew… when it is written about The Angel of the Lord’s presence in the Pentateuch… The Hebrew most accurately renders to; The Messenger of YH-H with the name of Y-WH written in Him. Abraham saw The pre-incarnate Son.

John wrote, no one has ever seen “The Father”, by implication…”God”… Yet, Moses spoke to God “face to face” as one speaks to a friend. In Isaiah 43:11… God states the He alone is Savior … and in another passage that He will share His “Glory” with no other. Isaiah 42:8 I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another or My praise to idols.

There is a reason that it is important to know that Jesus is God.

In Hebrews, we find that the Ratifier (Signer Who Put into effect) of the Old Covenant had to die to put the new covenant into effect and Cancel the debts that the Old Covenant had incurred towards mankind. The New Covenant is said to be the will and testament of the very One that signed the Old Covenant, per Hebrews. When was the Old Covenant signed… and what document did God Sign?

The Decalogue (Stone 10)

If Jesus isn’t God, by the legal verbiage of the book of Hebrews, our system of Salvation would be void… and the Devil’s work would still be valid. Hebrews 2:14 Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death—that is, the Devil—

If that’s not enough…. The very name Jesus is a Greek Transliteration of the name Yeshua. Before the Jewish diaspora, the name Yeshua was spelled “Ye-Ho-Shua”… the H and o signified the Tetragrammaton made of Yud-Hey-Vav-Hey.

When fully rendered in Hebrew, the very name Jesus actually is saying; YH-H is our Salvation.

The name of Jesus is actually an upgraded version of Y-WH… making it a higher name for Y-WH

 

[Consecrated Life]

Thomas was one whom Jesus identified himself as the Father. Even though Jesus was the son of the Father,, he was identifying himself as the Father.
Thomas doubted how that could be. But when he saw the risen son of the Father, the man Jesus, he said “My Lord and my God” . It was an acknowledgment of the identity Jesus had made of himself with the Father.

The straightforward King's English is contrary to the literary & theological gymnastics you are constantly forced to apply to every scriptural instance of Christ self-identifying and being identified as God in the flesh.
Why don't you quit all the pussyfooting and just replace the critical word of scripture in each verse that represents such a stumbling block for you to make your response unassailable ?

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord AND my God."

I choose to take the word of Thomas & This Jesus who is both Lord & God .

 

[Mustard Seed]

Thomas was one whom Jesus identified himself as the Father. Even though Jesus was the son of the Father,, he was identifying himself as the Father.
Thomas doubted how that could be. But when he saw the risen son of the Father, the man Jesus, he said “My Lord and my God” . It was an acknowledgment of the identity Jesus had made of himself with the Father.

What is the HIGHEST Name of all Names given within scripture?

 

[LeviR]

What is the HIGHEST Name of all Names given within scripture?

YHWH

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus and Abraham I think they saw each other.

I think Abraham for saw Jesus.
There was no actual Jesus until the Word took on flesh and was born of a woman.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You're not in heaven...

I can still foresee the election.

 

[Mustard Seed]

YHWH

I will respect this answer. I'll shuffle a couple passages your way and search for your contextual opinion.

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Who is the main character in this passage, per your opinion, by name?

 

[LeviR]

I will respect this answer. I'll shuffle a couple passages your way and search for your contextual opinion.

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Who is the main character in this passage, per your opinion, by name?

The main character is Jesus whom God raised from the dead.

 

[Mustard Seed]

The main character is Jesus whom God raised from the dead.

Do you agree, then, that the name being referenced here is the same? As in the emphasized "him"?

Romans 10:11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

 

[Free]

Simply believe to what John 1:1 says: In the beginning before everything was created Jesus was with God and he was equal to God. He’s not God but the one who’s equal to him in everything! He’s not the Creator but the one who created all things by the will if God! He’s the right hand of God! The true Light! Read the Gospel of John listening to his words, observing his deeds, paying attention to his relationships with the Father! Let Jesus enlighten you and God bless.

First, we should be more accurate and understand that it was the Son that was with God for eternity past, not Jesus. Second, if the Son existed for eternity past and equal to God, then it necessarily follows that he is also God. It cannot be otherwise. Absolute existence is an attribute of YHWH alone, and to be equal with YHWH necessarily means being YHWH, who is the one and only true God. There is no other way to reconcile the biblical fact of monotheism and three divine, coequal, coeternal persons apart from the Trinity.

 

[LeviR]

Do you agree, then, that the name being referenced here is the same? As in the emphasized "him"?

Romans 10:11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

Yep.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Yep.

So, no big deal...

Romans 10:13 is in Reference to Jesus Christ, where it says "the name"?

Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[LeviR]

So, no big deal...

Romans 10:13 is in Reference to Jesus Christ, where it says "the name"?

Romans 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Yes, because it has reference to the gospel which began with Abraham. Christ is the promised seed of Abraham. IOW, Christ is a child of Abraham and son of God.
Not two persons or two natures but one person who is a man whom God caused Mary to birth.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Yes, because it has reference to the gospel which began with Abraham. Christ is the promised seed of Abraham. IOW, Christ is a child of Abraham and son of God.
Not two persons or two natures but one person who is a man whom God caused Mary to birth.

Now, allow me to express that I am no theological slouch. Arius, born 256AD was the first known Theologian to express that he believed that Jesus was "Created" and followed through that it would be idolatry to call Jesus YHWH. This is not to label you, it's just to say that you are not alone in your belief system, which is "labeled" Arian in identification.

In no way do I believe that you are of any denomination, but can we safely say that Jehovah's Witnesses are Arian in theology and went to great lengths to as honestly as possible keep the name of Jesus and YHWH separate?

 

[LeviR]

Now, allow me to express that I am no theological slouch. Arius, born 256AD was the first known Theologian to express that he believed that Jesus was "Created" and followed through that it would be idolatry to call Jesus YHWH. This is not to label you, it's just to say that you are not alone in your belief system, which is "labeled" Arian in identification.

In no way do I believe that you are of any denomination, but can we safely say that Jehovah's Witnesses are Arian in theology and went to great lengths to as honestly as possible keep the name of Jesus and YHWH separate?

I do not believe it is idolatry to call Jesus YHWH, if it be understood Jesus has a God, and his God is the only true God.

 

[Mustard Seed]

I do not believe it is idolatry to call Jesus YHWH, if it be understood Jesus has a God, and his God is the only true God.

Hmmmmmmmm.... Fair enough. So, theologically we can now say that The Jehovah's Witnesses might even be more careful about mixing the names of YHWH and Jesus. I bring this up, because they really only made 2 changes to scripture. The first in their NWT was to change John 1 to "a god", instead of the typical rendering "Was God".

The second thing they do is to re-insert the name of YHWH wherever it properly belongs. Most translations reduce the name YHWH to Lord, but this brings up the same confusion that the Hebrew word "elohim" can bring up.

This is how they rendered Romans 10:13

Romans 10:13 'For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved"' (NWT).

They rendered it correctly, per the root Greek. The "LORD" at that location is indeed YHWH. If I had a scripture that further asserted this, would you be interested?

 

[GodsGrace]

I can still foresee the election.

I've become lost on the way to the bakery!
Sorry Hopeful.

Doesn't FORESEE mean that you know something that is definitely going to happen?

I know it means this but I've lost the gist of our discussion.
Sorry....

 

[Dmytro]

I think Abraham for saw Jesus.
There was no actual Jesus until the Word took on flesh and was born of a woman.

Could you elaborate on the difference between the Word and Jesus?

 

[LeviR]

Hmmmmmmmm.... Fair enough. So, theologically we can now say that The Jehovah's Witnesses might even be more careful about mixing the names of YHWH and Jesus. I bring this up, because they really only made 2 changes to scripture. The first in their NWT was to change John 1 to "a god", instead of the typical rendering "Was God".

The second thing they do is to re-insert the name of YHWH wherever it properly belongs. Most translations reduce the name YHWH to Lord, but this brings up the same confusion that the Hebrew word "elohim" can bring up.

This is how they rendered Romans 10:13

Romans 10:13 'For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved"' (NWT).

They rendered it correctly, per the root Greek. The "LORD" at that location is indeed YHWH. If I had a scripture that further asserted this, would you be interested?

I believe the scripture is in Joel.
But like I said, Jesus has come in the name of YHWH. So, to call on the name of Jesus is to call on the name of YHWH.