There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[GodsGrace]

Yes I think it was Matthew. When jesus walked on water I think.

PLEAESE BE SERIOUS.
YOU ARE IN THE TRINITARIANISM FORUM....A SUB-FORUM OF APOLOGETICS.

PLEAE POST A VERSE, AS HAS BEEN REQUESTED OF YOU, TO SUPPORT YOUR POV THAT JESUS IS A CREATED BEING.

THANKS.

This is a friendly warning since you're a new member and may not know our rules.
What you posted above has nothing to do with Jesus being a created being.

THEOLOGY
APOLOGETICS
TRINITARIANISM ...... all require biblical support for POV.

 

[GodsGrace]

If something God teaches is not clearly understood and fully comprehended, it may be that they are wearing glasses with warped lenses.
The glasses with the warped lenses represents teaching that is not understood or comprehended. Something that cannot clearly be seen by the mind and intellect.

Who are the THEY in your post above?

We do not speak about other members on this Site.
Thanks.

 

[LeviR]

Who are the THEY in your post above?

We do not speak about other members on this Site.
Thanks.

They are anyone who would attempt to teach something from Scripture that can’t be understood or comprehended.
They might just as well say nothing, because anyone who values truth would not accept what they say.

 

[Mustard Seed]

They are anyone who would attempt to teach something from Scripture that can’t be understood or comprehended.
They might just as well say nothing, because anyone who values truth would not accept what they say.

Truth is God. Infinite He is the only true Truth. In my opinion. We are the finite that are peaking into infinity with a magnifying glass.

 

[GodsGrace]

They are anyone who would attempt to teach something from Scripture that can’t be understood or comprehended.
They might just as well say nothing, because anyone who values truth would not accept what they say.

YOU might be doing the same.

Please refrain from referring to other members in your posts.
Thanks.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We both believe that God is TriUne and Jesus is God the Son of His Father... and the very provider of His (Jesus's) Holy Spirit?

Jesus was the Word, before taking on flesh.
It was the Word that was with God and was God.
The Word gave up much when He took on skin and bones.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The text does not say Abraham witnessed His departure from heaven to become a baby.

Jesus says it :

". 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus says it :

". 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

I can see the day of the presidential election coming up.
But I can't see it.
I foresee it.

 

[Runningman]

When Jesus appeared to them in the room, they could not explain how he got there. They imagined they saw a spirit or phantom.
Jesus is not confirming phantoms are real, he was only confirming he was not one of them.
Jesus was there but they could not yet see him because he had not yet opened their eyes so they may.

Have you read the one where grammatically it makes it seem like Jesus somehow either walked through a closed door or suddenly appeared among them? Doesn't come right out and say it, but there are numerous other instances where Jesus just seemed to hide himself or somehow escape without being detected.

John 20
19It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them.

 

[LeviR]

Have you read the one where grammatically it makes it seem like Jesus somehow either walked through a closed door or suddenly appeared among them? Doesn't come right out and say it, but there are numerous other instances where Jesus just seemed to hide himself or somehow escape without being detected.

John 20
19It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them.

Yeah, remember when the angel of the LORD stood in the way of Balaam and his donkey? The angel opened the eyes of the donkey to see before opening the eyes of Balaam.

That was cool. The angel had been right there standing in the way but neither could see him until the angel opened their eyes. One at a time, the donkey first.
That’s a thing with angels, they can be right there in their physical bodies and you’ll never see them unless they open your eyes.

Jesus could do the same thing. Wild.
He’d just close their eyes to him and walk on by.

 

[Dmytro]

I don't like many sermons... but I'm partial to this one. It's short. I think you'll enjoy it! All Love to you In Jesus, Sibling in Him!

yes that’s a beautiful sermon, have checked it in the morning. Now I’ll be thinking about Jesus through the whole day. We should extol the Father and Jesus through whom we have all God’s treasures and blessings in abundance! They are worthy. I should abide in Jesus my Saviour. Thank you and God bless!

 

[Dmytro]

The word arché is translated as "beginning" in most of the New Testament and Jesus being the originator of God's creation doesn't match the Bible. For starters, Jesus isn't God so Jesus isn't the Creator. The Bible says God is the Creator and is eternal. How could Jesus be eternal when he didn't always exist? Which verse says he always existed? None.

Simply believe to what John 1:1 says: In the beginning before everything was created Jesus was with God and he was equal to God. He’s not God but the one who’s equal to him in everything! He’s not the Creator but the one who created all things by the will if God! He’s the right hand of God! The true Light! Read the Gospel of John listening to his words, observing his deeds, paying attention to his relationships with the Father! Let Jesus enlighten you and God bless.

 

[Dmytro]

Seems you didn't read my last reply where I said God created Jesus because he created humans. Not sure where you're getting the idea that a special section devoted to the creation of Jesus needs to be mentioned when Jesus is included in the creation of humans. It's mentioned numerous places and I'll show you another soon, but on the matter of things the Bible doesn't go into specific detail about. How about the Trinity?

No mention of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together as the Triune Godhead in probably 99% of scriptures. There are a few one-off verses that mention these names/titles together without calling them the Trinity or explaining how they are all together God. Nothing about preaching the Trinity in the Gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, Peter's letters, Jude, James, Hebrews or Revelation. Nothing about needing to believe Jesus is God or believe in the Trinity as an integral part of the gospel.

I want to mention something else for the readers because I have noticed there are a lot of Reformed theologians here. Calvin never said belief in the Trinity or Jesus as God is necessary for salvation. Look through his Institutes and sermons. There's nothing about it. If anyone happens to research this and finds anything to the contrary, I would really like to know because I have already looked into what Calvin taught myself, but I digress.

Below Adam and Jesus are both said to be created. Jesus wasn't the first man, but the second man. Adam from earth, Jesus from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15
45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
46The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

the second man, Jesus, is out heavens from God. He wasn’t created from the dust by God but is an incarnated divine Son out of heavens from God.

 

[Dmytro]

I can see the day of the presidential election coming up.
But I can't see it.
I foresee it.

Jesus and Abraham I think they saw each other.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can see the day of the presidential election coming up.
But I can't see it.
I foresee it.

You're not in heaven...

 

[Consecrated Life]

The carnal mind cannot perceive what the spiritual mind can.

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

 

[Runningman]

Simply believe to what John 1:1 says: In the beginning before everything was created Jesus was with God and he was equal to God. He’s not God but the one who’s equal to him in everything! He’s not the Creator but the one who created all things by the will if God! He’s the right hand of God! The true Light! Read the Gospel of John listening to his words, observing his deeds, paying attention to his relationships with the Father! Let Jesus enlighten you and God bless.

Beginning doesn't necessitate one see that as the literal beginning of everything. It applies to a specific context. I would ask you to simply believe 1 John 1:1-3 where it says that the Word of Life is a thing that isn't God. The passage says this thing was manifested or revealed to them. That should inform a different interpretation of John 1 since the Word is plainly said to be a thing. Have you considered John 1 is about personification?

 

[Runningman]

the second man, Jesus, is out heavens from God. He wasn’t created from the dust by God but is an incarnated divine Son out of heavens from God.

I see 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 suggests both Adam and Jesus are created though in different ways.

 

[Mustard Seed]

Simply believe to what John 1:1 says: In the beginning before everything was created Jesus was with God and he was equal to God. He’s not God but the one who’s equal to him in everything! He’s not the Creator but the one who created all things by the will if God! He’s the right hand of God! The true Light! Read the Gospel of John listening to his words, observing his deeds, paying attention to his relationships with the Father! Let Jesus enlighten you and God bless.

In Hebrew… when it is written about The Angel of the Lord’s presence in the Pentateuch… The Hebrew most accurately renders to; The Messenger of YH-H with the name of Y-WHh written in Him. Abraham saw The pre-incarcerated Son.

John wrote, no one has ever seen “The Father”, by implication…”God”…

Yet, Moses spoke to God “face to face” as one speaks to a friend.

In Isaiah 43:11… God states the He alone is Savior … and in another passage that He will share His “Glory” with no other.

Isaiah 42:8 I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another or My praise to idols.

There is a reason that it is important to know that Jesus is God.

In Hebrews, we find that the Ratifier (Signer Who Put into effect) of the Old Covenant had to die to put the new covenant into effect and Cancel the debts that the Old Covenant had incurred towards mankind.

The New Covenant is said to be the will and testament of the very One that signed the Old Covenant, per Hebrews.

When was the Old Covenant signed… and what document did God Sign?

The Decalogue (Stone 10)

If Jesus isn’t God, by the legal verbiage of the book of Hebrews, our system of Salvation would be void… and the Devil’s work would still be valid.

Hebrews 2:14 Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through His death He might destroy the one holding the power of death—that is, the Devil—

If that’s not enough…. The very name Jesus is a Greek Transliteration of the name Yeshua. Before the Jewish diaspora, the name Yeshua was spelled “Ye-Ho-Shua”… the H and o signified the Tetragrammaton made of Yud-Hey-Vav-Hey.

When fully rendered in Hebrew, the very name Jesus actually is saying; YH-H is our Salvation.

The name of Jesus is actually an upgraded version of Y-WH… making it a higher name for Y-WH

 

[Randy]

Kind of. Means ‘Strong, mighty one’ according to Strong.

In NT in most cases ‘God’ relates to the Father. Just the fact.

Perhaps its truth not a title
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

Of course he is the Father’s Son. Agrree.

Always been the Son as in before all things were brought into existence through Him.

Explanation of this is on trinitarians, sorry

I understand what they state. Its your message I'm trying to understand.

I didn’t quite get you

Its stated Jesus had a human soul, spirit and body as the Son of Man yet all of Him was God. As in fully God and fully human. Yet the testimony states He came from the Fathers presence and testified to what He saw and heard as in heaven. Such testimony would be from His mind not a newly created human soul. So stating He had a human mind and a human body and a human spirit is just something stated so but not really explained. What other parts are there to a living person? How can He be fully God as well? My point is the foundation is mystery. The only deity I read about in the Son of Man is the Father. As from the beginning from the will of another -Col 1:19 I read Jesus has the Fathers nature that was gifted to Him from the Father. That makes Him a Son. The only begotten God and the Son is all that His Father is and the Father is His God and only Father. The Father is unbegotten. Hence the only true God.
God from true God not true God from true God. Jesus has the Fathers nature. The Spirit has the Fathers nature. ONE GOD.