There Is Only One Baptism With the Holy Spirit By Jesus Christ

[TruthSeeker2012]

I am still studying on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but my current convictions about it (which I have held for a while) is that the Baptism of the Spirit happens for everyone at conversion when they believe - and possibly is even the very agency and means of our regeneration (Titus 3:5).

For this interpretation I am also in the company of good theologians, IMO. See this link for quotations concerning that: We may conclude that the normal pattern is that the baptism of the Spirit occurs at the moment of saving faith, which in the N

You are "born again" with the Holy Spirit when you reach out and accept the gift of heaven and invite Jesus into your heart. Being "baptised" with the Holy Spirit can happen repeatedly after being "born again" of the Holy Spirit.

The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit is to empower you to tell others about Jesus and the joy and hope found in Him. The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit will also fill your heart with more love for God and others.

Being "born again" of the Holy Spirit saves you, then when you're "baptised" with the Holy Spirit over and over again, this is to help you and give you power and desire to reach out and save others.

You have been "born again" when you accepted the gift of heaven. But after that you can be baptised by the HS.

The disciples in John 20 were BORN AGAIN with the Spirit, then 50 days later they were BAPTISED with the Holy Spirit. So, the disciples received the Holy Spirit in John 20 and were "born again", then 50 days later, they sat around and received a BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit, and this was AFTER they were born again with the Spirit 50 days earlier in John 20.

The Day of Pentecost is the day that the disciples were baptised with the Holy Spirit, and this happened 50 days AFTER they were born again and received the Spirit initially in John 20:22.

So they received the Spirit twice, once in John 20:22 and were "born again", then 50 days later at The Day of Pentecost and then they were "baptised" with the Holy Spirit.

 

[cyberjosh]

One thing I am convinced of from studying Scripture is that there is absolutely no evidence that you can be Baptized in the Spirit multiple times. Baptism in the Spirit only occurs once, but fillings can occur multiple times. They are not the same. Different Greek words are used and they are used in seperate contexts as well as a few closely tied contexts (the Baptism can lead to filling - but they are not identical).

I agree with Sam Storms on the link I provided in my last post where he says:

"1. To be filled with the Spirit is different from being baptized in the Spirit. There is one baptism, but multiple fillings.
2. In no New Testament text are we commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is no appeal to do something in order to be baptized; no exhortation, no imperative.
3. On the other hand, we are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18)."

 

[Webb]

What an ungodly mess of misreasoning!

 

[cyberjosh]

What an ungodly mess of misreasoning!

Who are you talking to, me or TruthSeeker2012? And please be more specific.

If you are refering to what Sam Storms said it is very evident in Acts that the Baptism only happens once (in fact it is only explicitly mentioned two times in Acts - and of course for different groups of people) whereas believers are said to be filled again and again in the text of Acts. That is the result of an extremely straight-forward reading of Acts.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

One thing I am convinced of from studying Scripture is that there is absolutely no evidence that you can be Baptized in the Spirit multiple times. Baptism in the Spirit only occurs once, but fillings can occur multiple times. They are not the same. Different Greek words are used and they are used in seperate contexts as well as a few closely tied contexts (the Baptism can lead to filling - but they are not identical).

I agree with Sam Storms on the link I provided in my last post where he says:

"1. To be filled with the Spirit is different from being baptized in the Spirit. There is one baptism, but multiple fillings.
2. In no New Testament text are we commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is no appeal to do something in order to be baptized; no exhortation, no imperative.
3. On the other hand, we are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18)."

Where in Bible does it talk about the "multiple fillings" of the Holy Spirit?

And what are your Greek qualifications seeing you refer to the Greek? Surely you are fluent on Greek, or else you wouldn't be talking about the Greek context, right? Someone not fluent or not educated in Koine Greek cannot talk about proper Greek context! That's as silly as me saying that someone has mistranslated or misquoted some letter written in Russian, but all along I cannot read Russian fluently.

 

[cyberjosh]

Where in Bible does it talk about the "multiple fillings" of the Holy Spirit?

Acts mentions believers being filled on multiple occasions. Consider the following Scriptures: Acts 2:2-4; Acts 4:8; Acts 4:31; Acts 6:3; Acts 6:5; Acts 7:55; Acts 9:17; Acts 13:9; Acts 13:52. Click here to see all these Scriptures on one page.

 

[cyberjosh]

And what are your Greek qualifications seeing you refer to the Greek? Surely you are fluent on Greek, or else you wouldn't be talking about the Greek context, right? Someone not fluent or not educated in Koine Greek cannot talk about proper Greek context! That's as silly as me saying that someone has mistranslated or misquoted some letter written in Russian, but all along I cannot read Russian fluently.

First of all, you do not need to know Greek to observe the immediate context in which a word occurs in a verse in a decent translation.

Secondly, I am not a Greek scholar but I have actually studied some New Testament Koine Greek under a Seminary Professor at Beeson Divinity School - but I was not able to attend for the entire semester.

Thirdly, as anyone else who does not have direct access to or scholarly credentials enough to examine the Scriptures exegetically in the original languages - refering to works written by scholars who do is useful. In fact I just finished reading a book by James Hamilton called God's Indwelling Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Old and New Testaments which is a publication of his dissertation which was specifically on the Holy Spirit. In it Hamilton goes into quite a bit of detail on the different uses of the Greek words in Acts and he too realizes that baptism (baptizo) and filling (pleroo) are different words and are used to express different ministries of the Spirit. In addition to that he also distinguished indwelling and regeneration from each other, as well as from either baptism or filling.

Fourthly, you must have mistaken what I said if you thought I was claiming some great revelation from having read the original Greek. Anyone who can use a Hebrew-Greek concordance can tell you the meaning of the two words are different. And as I said the context I refered to is the surrounding verses when one of those words is used (which you can observe in a decent translation).

Please let's not turn this into a fight. Civil discussion will do nicely.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

First of all, you do not need to know Greek to observe the immediate context in which a word occurs in a verse in a decent translation...

You obviously have no idea what Koine Greek is or how hard it is to translate into proper context! That's why you see many Koine Greek Scholars debate and argue with each other as well because it's not as easy as you claim! And that's why we have so many different translations.

If you are not fluent in Koine Greek and not educated in it, then don't make comments about "accurate Koine Greek context", you only look silly if you do so.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Acts mentions believers being filled on multiple occasions. Consider the following Scriptures: Acts 2:2-4; Acts 4:8; Acts 4:31; Acts 6:3; Acts 6:5; Acts 7:55; Acts 9:17; Acts 13:9; Acts 13:52. Click here to see all these Scriptures on one page.

Acts 2:2-4 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 4:8 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 4:31 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 6:3 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 6:5 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 7:55 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 9:17 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 13:9 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 13:52 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

You are tampering with God's Word which is a very very serious offense! You cannot add words to Scripture which ain't there to begin with!

 

[John Zain]

I am still studying on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but my current convictions about it (which I have held for a while) is that the Baptism of the Spirit happens for everyone at conversion when they believe - and possibly is even the very agency and means of our regeneration (Titus 3:5).

None of the dozen verses re: this baptism use ANY of the wording in Titus 3:5.

If you are going to come to a conclusion re: this topic,
I think you should first come to a conlusion re: the following ...

SALVATION
Jesus promised that His replacement (the Holy Spirit) would be in believers forever (John 14:16+).
Paul explained, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The Holy Spirit does the baptising.
The Holy Spirit takes up residence inside the believer who is being saved:
Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 1 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM
John the Baptist said that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is done by Jesus:
Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
Jesus Himself does the baptising.
The Holy Spirit comes upon the person who is being anointed with this special baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6.

There is obviously huge difference between INSIDE and UPON.

This obviosityness needs to be addressed by someone, but no one will.
And this is precisely why no one is arriving at the correct conclusion.

 

[Former Christian]

Cyberjosh

How does water baptism fit into your understanding of Baptism?

FC

 

[Former Christian]

Bonairos

“However it's quite difficult when you evade a simple question informing this Christian community on your position in Christ (especially as you post to instruct those who do believe in God).... As stated before, credibility and discernment requires an answer to avoid assumptions when conversations refer to the True and Living God.â€

This Christian community already knows my “position in Christâ€. Only you do not.

I instruct no one. I’m not a Protestant Bible teacher, nor a Catholic Priest. I simply share what I believe is according to the Bible. No one agrees with all of what I share. Many different people agree with different things that I share. A few agree with nothing I have to share. And they don’t always agree with one another. Not the way it should be, if the Bible is considered a revelation of objective truth from God. Everyone should at least agree as to what it actually says, whether or not one agrees with what it says. But it is the way it is.

Credibility on this forum is considered to be in God. Not me, you, nor anyone else. There are very few wannabe Popes here. If I state what I think the Bible is saying, then it is in the Bible wherein the credibility lies, as it is considered by most here to have its source in God. It matters not whether I’m an Atheist, Buddhist, or a Christian. Objective truth doesn’t change on that account. It’s our understanding of objective truth that’s always in question. And if you believe in the practice of Biblical interpretation, even the Bible doesn’t matter. It becomes just a matter of personal opinion. And my opinion is as credible as your own, whether you believe my opinion is right or wrong.

Since my answer to your question is dependent on your answer to my question, and you won’t answer, then neither will I answer.

FC

 

[Former Christian]

TruthSeeker2012

Do you know Greek? I do know Greek and I agree with Cyberjosh.

Only the first two instances show multiple fillings with the Spirit. Two different instances at which Peter was present at both. It doesn’t say in 4:8 Peter continued to be filled, but having been filled, being in the aorist tense. And it is passive showing that it is something the Spirit did to Peter. Just as in 2:4. In 4:31 is a third instance of Peter being filled with the Spirit. One man filled three different times. Maybe you have a different definition of multiple.

FC

 

[cyberjosh]

You obviously have no idea what Koine Greek is

Unsubstantiated claim. Where do you get this stuff? I mean really. It's like you deliberately try to misunderstand me or twist my words.

or how hard it is to translate into proper context!

I am well aware of translational issues and textual criticism. Yes, translation is a delicate science and art - I don't take that for granted.

That's why you see many Koine Greek Scholars debate and argue with each other as well because it's not as easy as you claim!

So then, those who don't know Greek can't understand the Gospel to be saved if they can only read it translated into their native language? I know that's not what you said but the implication that we can't understand the meaning Scripture from a decent translation (which translations admittedly can be debated though) would seem to suggest that. That would be a shame because that would mean that most people since Koine Greek ceased to be spoken or written (well over a millenium ago), and thus do not know Koine Greek, have not saved!

And that's why we have so many different translations.

Obviously, and one would be wise to consult multiple translations to compare them (as do I).

If you are not fluent in Koine Greek and not educated in it, then don't make comments about "accurate Koine Greek context",

You act as if I didn't clarify my post to say that I meant the context as anyone can determine in a translation (in our case English translation). Please stop misunderstanding me to have said "Greek context" - I never said that. The context of a word in a verse (where it is in a sentence and the surrounding verses along with the topic being discussed) will be the same in Greek or English (or whatever language it is translated into), as long as the translation is faithful to the original. Please stop making a big deal out of this.

I meant that the context of the English word "filled" can be seen (in English translations) to be used in different contexts than "baptism" - meaning in different places/verses/chapters in Acts and with different immediate topics/themes as historically presented in Luke's account surrounding the verse in question - which will be the same regardless of the language you are reading it in - context is context (though I did admit that the "filled" and "baptism" do on occasion occur in the same context - but I suggested a reason for that). Please forgive me if my lack of clarification in my original post led to this most unfortunate misunderstanding of what I meant.

you only look silly if you do so.

The only thing silly perhaps, if I were to use your word, is your repeated misunderstandings of what people are saying, and not only of me. You have a very reactive posting style to people in general on this forum (as I have observed). It's okay to be passionate about a subject, just try a little more politeness and tact along with it please so that it doesn't seem so abrasive. At the least please quit accusing me of things I did not say.

 

[cyberjosh]

Acts 2:2-4 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 4:8 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 4:31 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 6:3 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 6:5 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 7:55 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 9:17 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 13:9 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

Acts 13:52 says NOTHING about multiple fillings by the Holy Spirit!

You are tampering with God's Word which is a very very serious offense! You cannot add words to Scripture which ain't there to begin with!

Former Christian is right. You must be thinking of a different definition of "multiple" and/or misunderstood what I meant. I did not, to clarify, mean multiple kinds of fillings. I meant a single filling mentioned in each of those verses is repeated for the same people or group again at another period of time later. Hence, if someone is filled once and then five chapters later that same person or group is said to be filled again on another occasion I would say they have been filled twice (and so on for each additional occasion), hence "multiple" times. I did say "multiple occasions" in that post you quoted - so that should have been clear to you. Read Former Christian's post. I believe he understood my point well. Why didn't you?

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

None of the dozen verses re: this baptism use ANY of the wording in Titus 3:5.

I'm not drawing a direct equivalence, but again I'm still studying the various verses that discuss the diverse ministries of the Holy Spirit. That being said, Titus 3:5 does share some terminology with John 7:38-39 (which speaks of indwelling) in terms of associating the Spirit with (spiritual/symbolic) water. What is your assessment of that association and its significance?

SALVATION
Jesus promised that His replacement (the Holy Spirit) would be in believers forever (John 14:16+).
Paul explained, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The Holy Spirit does the baptising.
The Holy Spirit takes up residence inside the believer who is being saved:
Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 1 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

Well here I must ask you an important question. If you are, as you seem to be, suggesting this against the idea of Baptism of the Spirit being associated with regeneration (Titus 3:5 - which is where the only occurrence in Scripture of the word paliggensia, regeneration, as applied to the individual is found - although the Greek word paliggensia is used one other time in Scripture in Matthew, but in an eschatalogical context), and rather associating salvation with Baptism of the Spirit - I must therefore ask what makes you distinguish salvation from regeneration? What prevents me from fully divorcing salvation from regeneration (or at least from viewing regeneration as the means of salvation) is in fact Titus 3:5 which says, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit" (NASB). The KJV, NKJV, NIV, and YLT are even clearer and put the two bolded portions right beside one another syntactically (which is how the Greek reads: ἔσωσεν ἡμᾶς διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας).

"He saved us," it says. How? "By the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit". What is your take on that?

~Josh

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

TruthSeeker2012

Do you know Greek? I do know Greek and I agree with Cyberjosh.

Only the first two instances show multiple fillings with the Spirit. Two different instances at which Peter was present at both. It doesn’t say in 4:8 Peter continued to be filled, but having been filled, being in the aorist tense. And it is passive showing that it is something the Spirit did to Peter. Just as in 2:4. In 4:31 is a third instance of Peter being filled with the Spirit. One man filled three different times. Maybe you have a different definition of multiple.

FC

1. Yes I know Koine Greek.

2. What are your qualifications in Koine Greek and where were they attained?

3. None of those verses say anything about "multiple baptisms" and hence, the Scholars also understand that, hence, the English translations do not mention it. Or are you claiming your Koine Greek is better than the Bible translator Scholars? Yes or No?

 

[felix]

1. Yes I know Koine Greek.

2. What are your qualifications in Koine Greek and where were they attained?

3. None of those verses say anything about "multiple baptisms" and hence, the Scholars also understand that, hence, the English translations do not mention it. Or are you claiming your Koine Greek is better than the Bible translator Scholars? Yes or No?

To learn scripture, no one needs to be qualified in anything. All you need is the Holy Spirit. As long as you think you have the understanding and wisdom in you because of your qualifications, you are not allowing the Holy Spirit to work in you.

 

[Eventide]

What would be the difference between a Christian with the Holy Spirit IN them versus the Holy Spirit being UPON them ?

Only a Christian can have the Holy Spirit IN them, in their eathen vessel.. right ?

Although I believe that the Holy Spirit could be 'pressing' UPON a person's mind and conscience without them being IN Christ..

Regardless, what would be the difference.. ? His Spirit is always 'consistent' isn't it ?

 

[Levi]

What would be the difference between a Christian with the Holy Spirit IN them versus the Holy Spirit being UPON them ?

Only a Christian can have the Holy Spirit IN them, in their eathen vessel.. right ?

Although I believe that the Holy Spirit could be 'pressing' UPON a person's mind and conscience without them being IN Christ..

Regardless, what would be the difference.. ? His Spirit is always 'consistent' isn't it ?

I think you are onto something there! I would further this by bringing up what Jesus said in John 14

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you"

It's oneness with God, obviously the Spirit moves about the creation as he pleases but when a man is born again he becomes one with Christ therefore he is never alone from that point onward.

i.e. The Holy Spirit indwells, this is testimony to the trinity where we find Jesus also making this remark in John 14

:Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them".