Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

Whether "Jesus" is the beginning and the Firstborn of all creation is another matter. He is not the Father and He existed with the Father in the beginning which you seem to acknowledge. It appears in Jesus its stated the fullness was pleased to dwell. Its clear to me that's from the will of another. So whose fullness is it? His own or the one supreme being as you state? The only unbegotten God the Father. Wouldn't that define Jesus as the "only" like to like "begotten" Son as John 1:18 states comes from the Father presence as one who speaks as such an eyewitness? Regardless its (Father and Son).
There is a reason "Jesus" calls the Father His God and His Father. He has always been the Son.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is invisible, and when Jesus healed the sick, it was the Spirit in Him who did the work. So, in Jesus, we have two persons of the Trinity, and if we go further back in time, we discover the Creator was the Word i.e. Jesus. So, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus, who is Almighty God with us, and currently he is preparing a place for us.
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[Free]

Jesus is the Word, and the Word is the Creator, also known as the Father. They are ONE God.

I have repeatedly posted what John is saying, and you have left it unaddressed just as many times.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning was the Word," that is, when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence. "And the Word was with [the] God"--"God" contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father. "With," being pros, means "intimate relationship" and "communion." "The Word was God" refers to the nature of the Word, as "God" doesn't have the article. That is, the Word is of the same substance as the Father.

To sum then, the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. Yet, we know there was only one God. Hence, one reason why the Trinity best takes into account all that God reveals of himself--there is plurality within the one God.

What John says utterly contradicts your position. Your argument is against the Bible and what God reveals about himself. And, remember, this is John's prologue, the whole purpose of which is to tell us who the Word is and that the Word became flesh. So, everything else John says in his gospel has to take this into account, as it forms the foundation.

What else does John say that supports what I have said about John 1:1? Let's take a look:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
…
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

Joh 16:27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
Joh 16:29 His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech!
Joh 16:30 Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
..
Joh 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
...
Joh 17:23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.


Look at how many times Jesus says that he existed with the Father prior to his incarnation. He also says that he shared the Father's glory "before the world existed," that is, before creation. So, just as John states in John 1:1-2, the Word, the pre-incarnate Son, existed in intimate relationship and communion with the Father for all eternity past.

The diagram divides the one omnipresent God into three persons, and has people thinking Trinitarians believe in three gods. Even the name adds substance to that belief.

There is no division, it is distinction. They are all of the one indivisible substance or essence that is God. One God, three persons.

You are contributing to the error by not clarifying the diagram.

I did clarify it, you just seem to be purposely twisting what it says to fit your theology.

Like Chinese whispers, people continue to think Trinitarians believe in three gods, when you could be instrumental in clarifying the issue by simplifying the diagram. Jesus wants all his disciples to spread the word of truth as they follow him. In his holy name. Amen.
.

Simplifying the diagram cannot be done. It is as simple as it can be to truthfully communicates the biblical Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

I have repeatedly posted what John is saying, and you have left it unaddressed just as many times.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning was the Word," that is, when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence. "And the Word was with [the] God"--"God" contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father. "With," being pros, means "intimate relationship" and "communion." "The Word was God" refers to the nature of the Word, as "God" doesn't have the article. That is, the Word is of the same substance as the Father.

To sum then, the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. Yet, we know there was only one God. Hence, one reason why the Trinity best takes into account all that God reveals of himself--there is plurality within the one God.

What John says utterly contradicts your position. Your argument is against the Bible and what God reveals about himself. And, remember, this is John's prologue, the whole purpose of which is to tell us who the Word is and that the Word became flesh. So, everything else John says in his gospel has to take this into account, as it forms the foundation.

What else does John say that supports what I have said about John 1:1? Let's take a look:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
…
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Joh 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
…
Joh 6:62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

Joh 16:27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
Joh 16:29 His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech!
Joh 16:30 Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
..
Joh 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
...
Joh 17:23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.


Look at how many times Jesus says that he existed with the Father prior to his incarnation. He also says that he shared the Father's glory "before the world existed," that is, before creation. So, just as John states in John 1:1-2, the Word, the pre-incarnate Son, existed in intimate relationship and communion with the Father for all eternity past.


There is no division, it is distinction. They are all of the one indivisible substance or essence that is God. One God, three persons.


I did clarify it, you just seem to be purposely twisting what it says to fit your theology.


Simplifying the diagram cannot be done. It is as simple as it can be to truthfully communicates the biblical Trinity.

Remember that during the thirty-three years Jesus was with us, he spoke both as a man and as God, but this cannot be said to be two Gods.

I cannot unscramble all that you have written. Will you rewrite it, so a child of ten can understand it please without the spin-doctoring. Thank you.

Remember also, we can say without fear of contradiction, "There is only ONE God."
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[Free]

Remember that during the thirty-three years Jesus was with us, he spoke both as a man and as God, but this cannot be said to be two Gods.

Of course not. That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.

I cannot unscramble all that you have written. Will you rewrite it, so a child of ten can understand it please. Thank you.
.

I'm simply breaking up the three clauses for easier exegesis.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning was the Word." The Greek word for "was" is en, which speaks of absolute pre-existence. That is, when the beginning began (that is, creation), the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence.

"And the Word was with [the] God." Here, theos ("God") contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father. The Greek word for "with" is pros, means "intimate relationship" and "communion." Only persons are in intimate relationship with other persons; one cannot be in intimate relationship with oneself.

"The Word was God." Here, theos doesn't have the article, so it does not refer to the Father, but instead refers to the nature of the Word. That is, the Word is of the same nature and substance as the Father.

To sum then, the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. The pre-incarnate Son was existed in intimate communion with the Father for all eternity past, before the creation of space and time. Yet, we know there was only one God. Hence, one reason why the Trinity best takes into account all that God reveals of himself--there is plurality within the one God.

 

[Cooper]

Of course not. That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.


I'm simply breaking up the three clauses for easier exegesis.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning was the Word." The Greek word for "was" is en, which speaks of absolute pre-existence. That is, when the beginning began (that is, creation), the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence.

"And the Word was with [the] God." Here, theos ("God") contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father. The Greek word for "with" is pros, means "intimate relationship" and "communion." Only persons are in intimate relationship with other persons; one cannot be in intimate relationship with oneself.

"The Word was God." Here, theos doesn't have the article, so it does not refer to the Father, but instead refers to the nature of the Word. That is, the Word is of the same nature and substance as the Father.

To sum then, the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. The pre-incarnate Son was existed in intimate communion with the Father for all eternity past, before the creation of space and time. Yet, we know there was only one God. Hence, one reason why the Trinity best takes into account all that God reveals of himself--there is plurality within the one God.

Yes, Jesus is the Word, he was there in the beginning, and is God from everlasting to everlasting.

There is only one God Free, and he was there in the beginning.

Here are some more scriptures about Christ's preexistence.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:17)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Mic 5:2 NKJV)

It would be best if you accepted the truth, please don't sound like an unbeliever.
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[Free]

Yes, Jesus is the Word, he was there in the beginning, and is God from everlasting to everlasting.

There is only one God Free, and he was there in the beginning.

But you're continuing to purposely ignore what John said, namely, that the Word was in intimate relationship and communion with the Father for all eternity past. John records several instances of Jesus claiming the very same thing, which you also continue to ignore. I get it, it proves exceptionally difficult for your position, but the answer isn't to ignore it all and hope it goes away, because it won't. You must take all those statements into account.

Here are some more scriptures about Christ's preexistence.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:17)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Mic 5:2 NKJV)

The doctrine of the Trinity agrees with all of these. It just shows that you do not understand the doctrine.

It would be best if you accepted the truth, otherwise it makes you sound like an atheist.
.

I'm not the one ignoring what John and Jesus say.

 

[Cooper]

But you're continuing to purposely ignore what John said, namely, that the Word was in intimate relationship and communion with the Father for all eternity past. John records several instances of Jesus claiming the very same thing, which you also continue to ignore. I get it, it proves exceptionally difficult for your position, but the answer isn't to ignore it all and hope it goes away, because it won't. You must take all those statements into account.


The doctrine of the Trinity agrees with all of these. It just shows that you do not understand the doctrine.


I'm not the one ignoring what John and Jesus say.

Give me some examples of scriptures you say I am ignoring, and I will respond to them tomorrow. It is getting late here.

I notice you ignored the ones I posted.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:17)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Mic 5:2 NKJV)
.

 

[Cooper]

But you're continuing to purposely ignore what John said, namely, that the Word was in Intimate relationship and communion with the Father for all eternity past. John records several instances of Jesus claiming the very same thing, which you also continue to ignore. I get it, it proves exceptionally difficult for your position, but the answer isn't to ignore it all and hope it goes away, because it won't. You must take all those statements into account.


The doctrine of the Trinity agrees with all of these. It just shows that you do not understand the doctrine.


I'm not the one ignoring what John and Jesus say.

Intimate relationship, my foot. That is spin doctoring if ever I saw it, and I have seen lots.

It says, "In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
.

 

[Free]

Give me some examples of scriptures you say I am ignoring, and I will respond to them tomorrow. It is getting late here.

I literally just gave you quite a number of them in post #2,342. They are all statements of Jesus and all support what John says in John 1:1-3, as I have given.

I notice you ignored the ones I posted.


Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:17)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:13)

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Mic 5:2 NKJV)
.

Nope, I didn't ignore them at all. I clearly replied: "The doctrine of the Trinity agrees with all of these." I don't disagree with them at all, so there is nothing to address.

Intimate relationship, my foot. That is spin doctoring if ever I saw it, and I have seen lots.

That's what the meaning in the Greek is. You are arguing against what God said.

It says, "In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
.

Really? You're conveniently ignoring context, again: "In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

No person is ever said to be with themself. That would be utter nonsense. Even a child of ten can understand that. And, again, "was God" means that the Word is God in nature, not that the Word is or was the Father. The Greek grammar and word meanings prove what I have said and Jesus makes quite a number of statements that supports all of this.

 

[Cooper]

I literally just gave you quite a number of them in post #2,342. They are all statements of Jesus and all support what John says in John 1:1-3, as I have given.


Nope, I didn't ignore them at all. I clearly replied: "The doctrine of the Trinity agrees with all of these." I don't disagree with them at all, so there is nothing to address.


That's what the meaning in the Greek is. You are arguing against what God said.


Really? You're conveniently ignoring context, again: "In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

No person is ever said to be with themself. That would be utter nonsense. Even a child of ten can understand that. And, again, "was God" means that the Word is God in nature, not that the Word is or was the Father. The Greek grammar and word meanings prove what I have said and Jesus makes quite a number of statements that supports all of this.

John 1:1-3 tells us Jesus was there in the beginning.

So accept it, stop arguing, and if you want to say there are three gods, then say it. But I dissociate myself from that.
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[Cooper]

John 1:1-3 tells us Jesus was there in the beginning.

So accept it, stop arguing, and if you want to say there are three gods, then say it. But I dissociate myself from that.
.

Added due to time limit.

I believe Jesus is the one eternal, omnipresent God (singular) with us in three realms.
.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus is the one God. Pagans have multiple gods.

Genesis 1:1 God is the Creator
John 1:3-10 Jesus is the Creator

Genesis 17:1 The Almighty is God
Rev. 1:8 Jesus is the Almighty

Exodus 3:14 The “I am” is God
John 8:58 Jesus is the “I am”

Deut. 10:17 The Lord of Lords is God
Rev. 19:16 Jesus is Lord of Lords

Ps 18:31 The Rock is God
I Cor 10:4 Jesus is the Rock

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus

Ps 146:10 God shall reign forever
Luke 1:33 Jesus will reign forever

Isa 40:11 The Shepherd is God
John 10:16 Jesus is the Shepherd

Isa 41:14 The Redeemer is God
Luke 1:68 Jesus is the Redeemer

Isa 43:10 God said, “I am he”
John 8:24 Jesus said, “I am he”

Isa 43:10,11 (God is the Saviour
Luke 2:11 Jesus is the Saviour

Jer 31:32 God, the One Husband
II Cor. 11:2 Jesus-The One Husband

Zec 14:4-5 God is coming
Matt 25:31 Jesus is coming

Mal 1:6 The One Master is God
Matt 23:8 Jesus is the One Master

Isa 43:15 The Holy One is God
Acts 3:14 Jesus is the Holy One

Isa 43:15 God is King of Israel
Matt 27:37 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa 45:21 The One Saviour is God
Acts 4:12 Jesus is the One Saviour

Isa 43:10,11 God is the only Saviour
Titus 1:4 Jesus is the only Saviour

Isa 44:6 The first and last is God
Rev. 1:8, 22:13 Jesus is first and last

Isa. 44:6 The King of Israel is God
John 1:49 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa. 45:23 Every knee must bow to God
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee must bow to Jesus

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus
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[Randy]

John 1:1-3 tells us Jesus was there in the beginning.

So accept it, stop arguing, and if you want to say there are three gods, then say it. But I dissociate myself from that.
.

Are there many Christ's? As He is the seed of Abraham.
If you belong to Christ you are the seed of Abraham.
Likewise the Father is in the Son and Jesus is the First and last.

It has been shown Jesus was the "only" begotten Son before the world began. The Father is unbegotten.
It has been Shown that the Father, from whom all things came, created all things by, through and for Jesus.

The glory to the Father alone in that regard strengthens this.
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Why the need if Jesus and the Father are the same as creator?
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

You state the Father is the Supreme being. How so if you state Jesus is also the Father? If not you must see the person of Jesus as distinct from the Father but the one and same God. Hello?

 

[Free]

John 1:1-3 tells us Jesus was there in the beginning.

It also says Jesus was with God. How was he with himself in intimate relationship and communion?

Once again you completely ignored all the verses. Why is that? Why do you argue so strongly for your position but ignore everything that proves difficult for it?

So accept it, stop arguing,

This shows you are not at all understanding what I have said. I have repeatedly said that the Son was there in the beginning. But who was he with, Cooper?

and if you want to say there are three gods, then say it. But I dissociate myself from that.
.

I have not once said there are three gods and have repeatedly said there is only one. Stop misrepresenting my position.

I believe Jesus is the one eternal, omnipresent God (singular) with us in three realms.
.

I, too, believe Jesus is God.

Jesus is the one God. Pagans have multiple gods.

Genesis 1:1 God is the Creator
John 1:3-10 Jesus is the Creator

Genesis 17:1 The Almighty is God
Rev. 1:8 Jesus is the Almighty

Exodus 3:14 The “I am” is God
John 8:58 Jesus is the “I am”

Deut. 10:17 The Lord of Lords is God
Rev. 19:16 Jesus is Lord of Lords

Ps 18:31 The Rock is God
I Cor 10:4 Jesus is the Rock

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus

Ps 146:10 God shall reign forever
Luke 1:33 Jesus will reign forever

Isa 40:11 The Shepherd is God
John 10:16 Jesus is the Shepherd

Isa 41:14 The Redeemer is God
Luke 1:68 Jesus is the Redeemer

Isa 43:10 God said, “I am he”
John 8:24 Jesus said, “I am he”

Isa 43:10,11 (God is the Saviour
Luke 2:11 Jesus is the Saviour

Jer 31:32 God, the One Husband
II Cor. 11:2 Jesus-The One Husband

Zec 14:4-5 God is coming
Matt 25:31 Jesus is coming

Mal 1:6 The One Master is God
Matt 23:8 Jesus is the One Master

Isa 43:15 The Holy One is God
Acts 3:14 Jesus is the Holy One

Isa 43:15 God is King of Israel
Matt 27:37 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa 45:21 The One Saviour is God
Acts 4:12 Jesus is the One Saviour

Isa 43:10,11 God is the only Saviour
Titus 1:4 Jesus is the only Saviour

Isa 44:6 The first and last is God
Rev. 1:8, 22:13 Jesus is first and last

Isa. 44:6 The King of Israel is God
John 1:49 Jesus is King of Israel

Isa. 45:23 Every knee must bow to God
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee must bow to Jesus

Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus
.

These are all just fallaciously begging the question as they are not addressing the nature of God. Not a single one disagrees with the Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

It also says Jesus was with God. How was he with himself in intimate relationship and communion?

Once again you completely ignored all the verses. Why is that? Why do you argue so strongly for your position but ignore everything that proves difficult for it?


This shows you are not at all understanding what I have said. I have repeatedly said that the Son was there in the beginning. But who was he with, Cooper?


I have not once said there are three gods and have repeatedly said there is only one. Stop misrepresenting my position.


I, too, believe Jesus is God.


These are all just fallaciously begging the question as they are not addressing the nature of God. Not a single one disagrees with the Trinity.

Why do you have three separate individual gods, with each god not being the other, when there is One Almighty Omnipresent God in heaven and on earth?
.

 

[Free]

Why do you have three separate gods, with each god not being the other, when there is One Almighty Omnipresent God in heaven and on earth?
.

I don’t. I have one God. Are you going to address all the verses you ignored?

 

[Cooper]

I don’t. I have one God. Are you going to address all the verses you ignored?

What has happened to the trinity diagram?
.

 

[Free]

What has happened to the trinity diagram?
.

Nothing. The diagram shows the biblical truth of the Trinity and I agree with the diagram and it agrees with me. Why are you yet again deflecting from answering those verses which are difficult for your position?

It would be great if you would address just this one verse:

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (ESV)

What does Jesus mean by that statement?

 

[Cooper]

Nothing. The diagram shows the biblical truth of the Trinity and I agree with the diagram and it agrees with me. Why are you yet again deflecting from answering those verses which are difficult for your position?

It would be great if you would address just this one verse:

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (ESV)

What does Jesus mean by that statement?

God's oneness.

There is no point talking,
.

 

[Free]

God's oneness.

How does what Jesus says have to do with "God's oneness"? What, precisely, do you mean by "oneness"?

What does he mean by "before the world existed"? Who was Jesus with and whose glory did he share "before the world existed"?