Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

You haven't even shown you have an understanding of what is right. But you have been very dishonest by twisting and misrepresenting what I have said.

Back when I said: "the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, nor is the Son the Holy Spirit."

You replied: "show me where the Bible says, "GOD is not Father, not Son, or not Holy Spirit."

That wasn't the first time nor the last. So, please tell me, on what planet or in what universe does "the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, nor is the Son the Holy Spirit," the same as saying "God is not the Father, not Son, or not Holy Spirit"? This is a serious question because in no universe are those two sentences saying the same thing. Your reply has completely twisted what I said.

You have also claimed to be Trinitarian but then say Trinitarianism is false and promote Unitarian theology. I am left wondering why you argue so strongly against the doctrine of the Trinity when you don't understand it and don't address those things that prove difficult for your position.


You are free to do what you want.

The trinity is correct. It describes the nature of the one omnipresent God. Those who worship the one triune God who created heaven and earth, saved those who believe in Him from their sins, and are about to accept Him into their heart and life and follow him all their days, will one day meet with him in the new heaven he is preparing for us. Those who deny him by saying the one Triune God is not our heavenly Father, is not the Saviour of the world, and is not present with us in our heart, will die in their sins, which are many.
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[Free]

The trinity is correct. It describes the nature of the one omnipresent God. Those who worship the one triune God who created heaven and earth, saved those who believe in Him from their sins, and are about to accept Him into their heart and life and follow him all their days, will one day meet with him in the new heaven he is preparing for us. Those who deny him by saying the one Triune God is not our heavenly Father, is not the Saviour of the world, and is not present with us in our heart, will die in their sins, which are many.
.

But you don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is correct; you don’t believe God is triune. This whole discussion we’ve been having is me showing you the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity and you not only arguing against it, including saying Trinitarianism is false, but promoting Unitarianism and the “Coexistent Modalism” of Oneness theology.

You simply cannot redefine words such as “Trinity” and “triune” and then claim to believe them, any more than an atheist can claim to be a Christian by redefining what is meant by “Christian.” Which all begs the question: why, if you are Unitarian, is it so necessary to be accepted as Trinitarian that you change the definitions to fit your theology? That is what JWs and Mormons do to be accepted as “Christians” and it is very deceptive.

 

[Cooper]

But you don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is correct; you don’t believe God is triune. This whole discussion we’ve been having is me showing you the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity and you not only arguing against it, including saying Trinitarianism is false, but promoting Unitarianism and the “Coexistent Modalism” of Oneness theology.

You simply cannot redefine words such as “Trinity” and “triune” and then claim to believe them, any more than an atheist can claim to be a Christian by redefining what is meant by “Christian.” Which all begs the question: why, if you are Unitarian, is it so necessary to be accepted as Trinitarian that you change the definitions to fit your theology? That is what JWs and Mormons do to be accepted as “Christians” and it is very deceptive.

I do not believe your version, cobbled together by Constantine or one of the other sects around at the time. It is not scriptural.
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[GodsGrace]

I do not believe your version, cobbled together by Constantine or one of the other sects around at the time. It is not scriptural.
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Hi Cooper
I also have wondered about what Free has stated. You insist that you're a trinitarian but then vehemently deny all its teachings.

We've discussed Constantine. Leave him out of this since it's the early Christians that believed and explained the Trinity, not Constantine.

Could you post a link that brings you to believe that Constantine invented the concept of the Trinity?

 

[Cooper]

Hi Cooper
I also have wondered about what Free has stated. You insist that you're a trinitarian but then vehemently deny all its teachings.

We've discussed Constantine. Leave him out of this since it's the early Christians that believed and explained the Trinity, not Constantine.

Could you post a link that brings you to believe that Constantine invented the concept of the Trinity?

The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine

Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.

www.ucg.org

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[Free]

I do not believe your version, cobbled together by Constantine or one of the other sects around at the time. It is not scriptural.
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One of the sects? You mean Christians? The version I have given is the original, historical, orthodox “version,” which is where the word “Trinity” comes from, and is very Scriptural. It wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t. So, again, this just begs the question as to why Unitarians are co-opting the word “Trinity” and making their own false version of it. It is completely pointless unless the purpose is to intentionally deceive.

The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine

Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.

www.ucg.org

.

https://christianforums.net/threads...tified-in-the-bible.2858/page-37#post-1760750

It's not an article that tells the truth. Again, more intentional deception. All the foundations of the Trinity were being taught long before Constantine. And, it is worth noting that the doctrine didn't come about until after Constantine legalized Christianity, ending Christian persecution. It's rather difficult, I would think, to have Christian leaders get together and discuss Christian doctrine, especially something as complex as the nature of God, when they were being persecuted for over 300 years.

Even with the Council of Niacea, Constantine had little, if anything, to do with the conclusion of it. Christian theologians and leaders later developed, or rather discovered, the doctrine of the Trinity. Constantine merely brought bishops together to try and get them to come to a consensus about who Christ was and is, largely due to the division Arius was causing. Division in the Church meant a divided kingdom. He oversaw the proceedings and may have participated in discussions, but apparently didn't cast a vote. And, it was a Christological debate, not a Trinitarian one.

https://overviewbible.com/council-of-nicaea/

https://www.britannica.com/event/First-Council-of-Nicaea-325

 

[Cooper]

But you don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is correct; you don’t believe God is triune. This whole discussion we’ve been having is me showing you the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity and you not only arguing against it, including saying Trinitarianism is false, but promoting Unitarianism and the “Coexistent Modalism” of Oneness theology.

You simply cannot redefine words such as “Trinity” and “triune” and then claim to believe them, any more than an atheist can claim to be a Christian by redefining what is meant by “Christian.” Which all begs the question: why, if you are Unitarian, is it so necessary to be accepted as Trinitarian that you change the definitions to fit your theology? That is what JWs and Mormons do to be accepted as “Christians” and it is very deceptive.

THE TRUTH
ONE OMNIPRESENT GOD IN HEAVEN, ON EARTH, IN OUR HEARTS.​

Jesus
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Holy Spirit
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. John 15:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. John 14:26

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

Father
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

GOD IS ONE​

 

[Free]

THE TRUTH
ONE OMNIPRESENT GOD IN HEAVEN, ON EARTH, IN OUR HEARTS.​

Jesus
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Holy Spirit
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. John 15:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. John 14:26

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

Father
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

All which agree with and prove the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity. John 1:1 (and verses 2 and 3), Matt 28:19, and 1 Cor 8:6 prove your position wrong.

GOD IS ONE​

Yes, all three co-eternal, coequal, consubstantial persons are one God.

 

[Cooper]

All which agree with and prove the historical, orthodox doctrine of the Trinity. John 1:1 (and verses 2 and 3), Matt 28:19, and 1 Cor 8:6 prove your position wrong.


Yes, all three co-eternal, coequal, consubstantial persons are one God.

You have three separate gods instead of one God, meaning they are not consubstantial. Remember "God is ONE and you make a point of saying, "THE Father IS NOT THE SON, etc.etc." One God. YOU HAVE THREE.
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[Free]

You have three separate gods instead of one God, meaning they are not consubstantial.
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No, they are consubstantial. One God.

 

[Cooper]

No, they are consubstantial. One God.

Whatever. God is one and the diagrams says they are not. I'm going.
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[Free]

Whatever. God is one and the diagrams says they are not. I'm going.
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The diagram says they are one.

 

[Cooper]

The diagram says they are one.

It says "is not." This is like talking to a brick wall.

https://en.believethesign.com/images/thumb/1/19/Trinity_diagram.png/267px-Trinity_diagram.png

God is ONE. You have three gods.
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[Randy]

You have three separate gods instead of one God, meaning they are not consubstantial. Remember "God is ONE and you make a point of saying, "THE Father IS NOT THE SON, etc.etc." One God. YOU HAVE THREE.
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The Father lives in the Son and if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. The Spirit proceeds from the Father and has the Fathers nature. That's one God, (Father, Son, Spirit)

If the Father came down the below statement makes no sense.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of the One who sent Me
Also the witness testimony would not be what he saw and heard from another but His own.
The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard,
I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

Again the one declared in the Fathers presence
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

 

[Randy]

It says "is not." This is like talking to a brick wall.

https://en.believethesign.com/images/thumb/1/19/Trinity_diagram.png/267px-Trinity_diagram.png

God is ONE. You have three gods.
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This is the Apostles creed. It predates the Nicene creed and is stated to be what the Apostles believed and taught.

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen

 

[Free]

It says "is not." This is like talking to a brick wall.

https://en.believethesign.com/images/thumb/1/19/Trinity_diagram.png/267px-Trinity_diagram.png

God is ONE. You have three gods.
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No. You simply are not understanding the diagram.

Notice first that there is a single circle with "God" in it. That means there is only one God. Then the three circles with each person, "The Father," "The Son," and "The Holy Spirit," are connected to the one God with "Is." This means that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. One God, three consubstantial persons.

Now, we take into account that the Father "Is Not" the Son and "Is Not" the Holy Spirit, and the Son "Is Not" the Holy Spirit. One God, three co-eternal, coequal, consubstantial persons. The "Is Not" is absolutely necessary to maintain the biblical, eternal distinctions between the persons.

The diagram shows, in part, John 1:1--"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [the Father], and the Word was God [in nature]" (ESV). The Word cannot be the Father or John 1:1 is false.

 

[Cooper]

No. You simply are not understanding the diagram.

Notice first that there is a single circle with "God" in it. That means there is only one God. Then the three circles with each person, "The Father," "The Son," and "The Holy Spirit," are connected to the one God with "Is." This means that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. One God, three consubstantial persons.

Now, we take into account that the Father "Is Not" the Son and "Is Not" the Holy Spirit, and the Son "Is Not" the Holy Spirit. One God, three co-eternal, coequal, consubstantial persons. The "Is Not" is absolutely necessary to maintain the biblical, eternal distinctions between the persons.

The diagram shows, in part, John 1:1--"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [the Father], and the Word was God [in nature]" (ESV). The Word cannot be the Father or John 1:1 is false.

I understand better than you.

Jesus is the Word, and the Word is the Creator, also known as the Father. They are ONE God.

The diagram divides the one omnipresent God into three persons, and has people thinking Trinitarians believe in three gods. Even the name adds substance to that belief.

You are contributing to the error by not clarifying the diagram. Like Chinese whispers, people continue to think Trinitarians believe in three gods, when you could be instrumental in clarifying the issue by simplifying the diagram. Jesus wants all his disciples to spread the word of truth as they follow him. In his holy name. Amen.
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[Randy]

I understand better than you.

Jesus is the Word, and the Word is the Creator, also known as the Father. They are ONE God.

The diagram divides the one omnipresent God into three persons, and has people thinking Trinitarians believe in three gods. Even the name adds substance to that belief.

You are contributing to the error by not clarifying the diagram. Like Chinese whispers, people continue to think Trinitarians believe in three gods, when you could be instrumental in clarifying the issue by simplifying the diagram. Jesus wants all his disciples to spread the word of truth as they follow him. In his holy name. Amen.
.

God the Father created through Jesus, the only begotten Son.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; 16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. 19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

 

[Cooper]

God the Father created through Jesus, the only begotten Son.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; 16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. 19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

Jesus wasn't born at creation. However in the next sentence we learn all things came through Jesus, by whom we live (have life). Clearly Jesus was there in the beginning, and as there can only be one supreme being, it appears that the Father, the Son and the creator are ONE GOD.
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[Randy]

Jesus wasn't born at creation. However in the next sentence we learn all things came through Jesus, by whom we live (have life). Clearly Jesus was there in the beginning, and as there can only be one supreme being, it appears that the Father, the Son and the creator are ONE GOD.
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Whether "Jesus" is the beginning and the Firstborn of all creation is another matter. He is not the Father and He existed with the Father in the beginning which you seem to acknowledge. It appears in Jesus its stated the fullness was pleased to dwell. Its clear to me that's from the will of another. So whose fullness is it? His own or the one supreme being as you state? The only unbegotten God the Father. Wouldn't that define Jesus as the "only" like to like "begotten" Son as John 1:18 states comes from the Father presence as one who speaks as such an eyewitness? Regardless its (Father and Son).
There is a reason "Jesus" calls the Father His God and His Father. He has always been the Son.