Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

I saw “Believers Bible” but I’ve never heard of it and thought it only applied to the biblical text. Regardless, I’ll show who has the proper understanding of what the Believer’s Bible states below.


Speaking of how much I took in, I clearly took in a whole lot more than you. As I stated previously, it fully supports everything I have even saying. Such as here:

“The Word was with God. He had a separate and distinct personality. He was not just an idea, a thought, or some vague kind of example, but a real Person who lived with God. The Word was God. He not only dwelt with God, but He Himself was God.”

You seem to have missed the part where it says Jesus “had a separate and distinct personality.” Also that he was “a real Person who lived with God” and “dwelt with God.”

You also seemed to miss these even clearer statements:

“The Bible teaches that there is one God and that there are three Persons in the Godhead—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three of these Persons are God. In this verse, two of the Persons of the Godhead are mentioned—God the Father and God the Son.”

And then there is this: “All three Persons of the Godhead were involved in the work of creation.”

All those statements I quoted support everything I have said, support the diagram of the Trinity, and contradict your position. That’s why I said I don’t know why you quoted it.

I believe in ONE Creator God in heaven, on earth, and in our hearts, who existed from before the foundation of the earth, and is our Saviour, Healer, Baptiser and coming King. You believe in three individual demi-gods, one not being the other. Good luck to you when you stand before your three gods, rather than the ONE omnipresent God, known by three names in three dimensions.
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[justbyfaith]

I'm back after a fifteen day suspension, and so will be posting in this thread again.

There is also a good portion of what I am saying on this subject in the following thread.

Coexistent modalism...the true Trinity.

Here is how I define the Trinity. The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15). The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7). The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of...

christianforums.net

 

[justbyfaith]

False, still.

False, still.

I believe that it is against the ToS to call someone a liar.

Out of one side of your mouth, you admit that the only true God is three Persons, whereas out of the other side of your mouth you contradict that truth by saying the only true God is not three Persons.

Yes, God is one Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore one Person.

In another sense, He is in fact three distinct Persons. The OP in my above linked post declares how.

In both scriptures Matthew 11:25, and Luke 10:21 Jesus is praying to his Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth. So these scriptures are not teaching us that it's Jesus, who is Father lord of Heaven and Earth

But in Ephesians 4:5 and in 1 Corinthians 8:6, we are told that there is one Lord.

So, if the Father be Lord, and Jesus be Lord, I conclude that they are the same Lord.

Is whatever you would refer to by your phrase, "separate person", somehow different from whatever you'd just call a "person" (sans your pseudo-modifier word, "separate")? If so, how so? If not, then why do you choose to say "separate person", inflating your speech/text with your superfluous word "separate", and choose to not just say "person", instead?

If God be three separate Persons, the conclusion is that He is three Gods. If they be merely distinct, as I postulate, then they can be one God.

When you say "He is three Gods", what three things are you calling "Gods"?

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; if they be separate rather than distinct.

To whom are you referring by your phrase, "three Gods"? That is, whom are you saying someone believes in when you say he "believes in three Gods"?

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as being separate rather than distinct Persons.

It's interesting to note that the Author of Hebrews says "his Son....by whom also he made the worlds" and does NOT say "the Word....by whom also he made the worlds".

The pre-existent Jesus is the Word. He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh. When He resurrected and ascended, He rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist once again outside of time (Isaiah 57:15). In His resurrected form He is human and therefore can be defined as the Son. And He exists into eternity past. So, Jesus, as the Son, existed in the beginning when everything was created; and also took part in the creation of everything.

Neither Romans 1:3, nor any other passage(s) in the Bible teach that Jesus was created.

It does, according to the flesh (His humanity in the hypostatic union). Of course in His Deity He is the Father and uncreated. And Luke 1:35 also tells us that He was begotten in the incarnation.

According to what you have handed us here, labeling your doctrine "Trinitarian" is satan's <fify> way of denying the truth that your doctrine is not Trinitarian. So, thanks for the caveat!

My doctrine is in fact Trinitarian. And, this label is my way of denying the lie that my doctrine is not Trinitarian; not satan's way of denying the truth.

What you've handed us here is a mislabeling of your unitarianism by calling it "monotheism". It's not monotheism that is un-Biblical, it is your unitarianism that is un-Biblical.

I am not a unitarian. I believe that it is against the ToS to misrepresent someone's viewpoint.

Here, you have told us that your labeling of the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father, by calling it "Tritheism", is satan's <fify> way of denying the truth that the Father IS NOT the Son/that the Son IS NOT the Father.

It is God's way of denying the lie that the Father IS NOT the Son and that the Son IS NOT the Father.

So, we could have one person being all three persons (a contradiction),

Not necessarily (see the OP in my thread that I have linked to in the post above).

or it could be Trinitarian, where all three persons are distinct.

That is what I am attempting to set forth.

For the diagram to be Trinitarian then the words "is not" must be between each of the persons as in the original diagram.

No; for in that you are purporting the Tritheistic view of mormonism rather than the true Trinity.

Even the creeds declare that the Persons in the Trinity are not separate but distinct.

Saying that the Father is not the Son is similar, although not identical, to saying that every father is not their own son.

What is true with man may not necessarily also be true with God.

I am correct in stating that if a person believes that God is a single person, an absolute unity, then they cannot, by definition, as I've given above, be a Trinitarian.

False. See my thread that I have linked to in the post above.

Each person is truly and fully God, being of the same substance that is the one God.

The same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), would you also say?

John 1:18 is about the only begotten Son in heaven who came down from the Fathers presence as such an eyewitness. The Father is unbegotten. They are not the same person.

They are the same Spirit. Jesus is begotten in that He is come in flesh. Father and Son are distinct in that Jesus is come in flesh.

It is logically impossible that he was with the Father if he was the Father.

It is logically possible if you consider displacement between time and eternity (see also the OP of my thread that I have linked to in the post above).

Notice that "the only God" is "at the Father's side." This echoes John 1:1 and logically cannot mean that Jesus (the Word) is the Father.

Jesus is "the Father come in flesh"...and can indeed be at the Father's side, being such.

Please reread what I wrote. Of course Jesus is God; that is something that Trinitarians fully affirm.

But in your presupposition, Jesus is either a 2nd God or else 1/3 of God.

That wasn't the first time nor the last. So, please tell me, on what planet or in what universe does "the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, nor is the Son the Holy Spirit," the same as saying "God is not the Father, not Son, or not Holy Spirit"? This is a serious question because in no universe are those two sentences saying the same thing. Your reply has completely twisted what I said.

I think that you have been deceived by your heretical diagram.

But you don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is correct; you don’t believe God is triune.

I do; and I also believe in His Oneness to the extent of Personhood; as God, being one Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), is a Person.

It also says Jesus was with God. How was he with himself in intimate relationship and communion?

Through the displacement between time and eternity.

Why are you so unwilling to address the plain and simple verses I have given?

What verses are those? I didn't see any verses.

Yes, but as I pointed out, you keep ignoring the middle clause of verse 1--"the Word was with God." No one is ever said to be with themself, never mind in intimate relationship and communion with themself. Ever. That is to speak nonsensically.

The Word is said to be with Himself; even God is said to be with Himself, in John 1:1.

 

[justbyfaith]

You seem to have missed the part where it says Jesus “had a separate and distinct personality.”

I certainly have not missed it.

I would say that Jesus does in fact have a distinct personality from the Father; since He is a Spirit-Man and God the Father is primarily a Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

All those statements I quoted support everything I have said, support the diagram of the Trinity, and contradict your position.

Nothing that you have said viably contradicts my position.

 

[justbyfaith]

I just want to say that I believe that there is one God (James 2:19).

And therefore I believe that the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4) are the same God (1 Corinthians 12:6).

I believe that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:24).

And therefore I believe that Father (John 4:23-24), Son (John 4:24; Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14) are the same Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4).

I believe in one Lord; and that we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine, according to the creeds, to say that there are three Lords.

And therefore I believe that Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17) are the same Lord (1 Corinthians 12:5, 2 Corinthians 8:19).

Now, without the scripture references.

I just want to say that I believe that there is one God.

And therefore I believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the same God.

I believe that there is one Spirit who is God.

And therefore I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same Spirit.

I believe in one Lord; and that we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine, according to the creeds, to say that there are three Lords.

And therefore I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

I certainly have not missed it.

I would say that Jesus does in fact have a distinct personality from the Father; since He is a Spirit-Man and God the Father is primarily a Spirit.

Let me clarify here that by "Spirit-Man" I do not mean that He is not in flesh. The "Man" part of the equation indicates that He is indeed in flesh.

 

[Free]

I believe in ONE Creator God in heaven, on earth, and in our hearts, who existed from before the foundation of the earth, and is our Saviour, Healer, Baptiser and coming King. You believe in three individual demi-gods, one not being the other. Good luck to you when you stand before your three gods, rather than the ONE omnipresent God, known by three names in three dimensions.
.

No, I believe in one God. Trinitarianism fully affirms that there was , is, and ever will be only one God.

Who was the Word with for all eternity past? You still haven’t addressed this issue. John says the Word was with God. Who is he referring to? I’ll give you a hint: Jesus also said he was with someone for eternity past.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, I believe in one God. Trinitarianism fully affirms that there was , is, and ever will be only one God.

Yet you teach that it is not God the Father, but God the Son, who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh.

That the Son is eternally begotten as one next to the Father in eternity, who is God.

Can you not see that you are purporting more than one God here?

Let me put it this way.

Perhaps you can explain to us how God the Father and God the Son are one God from your perspective.

Since you proclaim that the Father IS NOT the Son...

In what manner are they one God?

 

[Free]

Not necessarily (see the OP in my thread that I have linked to in the post above).

Necessarily. One person cannot be three persons nor can one God be three Gods. That is one of the reasons why the doctrine of the Trinity is defined the way it is--to avoid both of those contradictions.

No; for in that you are purporting the Tritheistic view of mormonism rather than the true Trinity.

Even the creeds declare that the Persons in the Trinity are not separate but distinct.

And the diagram shows that they are distinct. It does not show tritheism. The problem is your Unitarian view reinterprets the diagram to say something it is not saying. The diagram agrees with the Creeds.

False.

Didn’t you just chastise someone else for using that word? Tsk tsk. Besides, what I said is absolutely true: if a person believes that God is a single person, an absolute unity, then they cannot, by definition, be a Trinitarian. They are, by definition, a Unitarian.

See my thread that I have linked to in the post above.

No thanks. You'll have to copy and paste the answers here.

The same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), would you also say?

The same substance. Saying that they are the same Spirit is too Unitarian and confuses the distinctness of the personality of the Holy Spirit. John 4:24 simply says that God is spirit and Eph 4:4 is talking about the Holy Spirit.

They are the same Spirit. Jesus is begotten in that He is come in flesh. Father and Son are distinct in that Jesus is come in flesh.

The Father and the Son are eternally distinct, the Son being eternally generated by the Father.

It is logically possible if you consider displacement between time and eternity (see also the OP of my thread that I have linked to in the post above).

It is not logical. Again, that is to conflate two different points in "time."

Jesus is "the Father come in flesh"...and can indeed be at the Father's side, being such.

That is Unitarianism and not what the Bible teaches. Jesus, John, and Paul all disagree that 'Jesus is "the Father come in the flesh".'

But in your presupposition, Jesus is either a 2nd God or else 1/3 of God.

No, Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, fully and truly God, yet distinct from the other two persons. You should probably learn what the doctrine of the Trinity actually is before debating so strongly against it.

I think that you have been deceived by your heretical diagram.

No, the diagram teaches the truth of the Trinity as given in Scripture and the Creeds.

I do; and I also believe in His Oneness to the extent of Personhood; as God, being one Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4), is a Person.

This is, again, Unitarianism, not Trinitarianism. So, you cannot claim to be Trinitarian.

Through the displacement between time and eternity.

That is not how it works. That is twisting what Scripture says to fit your preconceived ideas about God, namely, Unitarianism.

What verses are those? I didn't see any verses.

That post wasn’t addressed to you.

The Word is said to be with Himself; even God is said to be with Himself, in John 1:1.

That is nonsensical. No one, not even God, is ever said to be with oneself. One has to ignore the plain meaning of language and logic to come to such a conclusion. Your Unitarianism is forcing you to change the meaning of John 1:1. As I have stated, C. S. Lewis said that nonsense is still nonsense even when it is spoken of about God. If you're going to do away with logic, you actually do away with God.

So far, your God, the Unitarian God of Oneness, is deficient in at least two aspects--he cannot be love and he communicates irrationally.

Nothing that you have said viably contradicts my position.

I've given some substantial arguments from Scripture and reason that completely contradict your position. That you twist Scripture to try and fit your position is of no help.

 

[justbyfaith]

Necessarily. One person cannot be three persons nor can one God be three Gods. That is one of the reasons why the doctrine of the Trinity is defined the way it is--to avoid both of those contradictions.

One person can be three Persons.

If He is one Spirit, existing in eternity, who descends into time and takes on an added nature of human flesh, becoming a 2nd Person and taking on a 2nd personality. And then, if He releases His Spirit, at death, back into eternity to exist side-by-side with Himself as a Spirit before time began and throughout eternity.

Besides, what I said is absolutely true: if a person believes that God is a single person, an absolute unity, then they cannot, by definition, be a Trinitarian. They are, by definition, a Unitarian.

I believe that God is an absolute unity and yet that He is three distinct Persons. Go figure. I believe that in that I hold Him to be three distinct Persons, that that is Trinitarian theology.

No thanks. You'll have to copy and paste the answers here.

Will do. See below post.

John 4:24 simply says that God is spirit and Eph 4:4 is talking about the Holy Spirit.

John 4:23-24 teaches that God the Father is Spirit. If Ephesians 4:4, therefore, is talking about the Holy Spirit, is not God the Father another Spirit? That is not one Spirit, but two.

The Father and the Son are eternally distinct, the Son being eternally generated by the Father.

The Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35). I challenge you to bring forth scripture for your statement.

It is not logical.

Wrong.

That is Unitarianism and not what the Bible teaches. Jesus, John, and Paul all disagree that 'Jesus is "the Father come in the flesh".'

Where?

I am not a Unitarian; while I do emphasize the Oneness of God in the Trinity in order to combat the heresy of tritheism.

No, the diagram teaches the truth of the Trinity as given in Scripture and the Creeds.

The diagram gives the mormon point of view about God.

This is, again, Unitarianism, not Trinitarianism. So, you cannot claim to be Trinitarian.

I believe in three distinct Persons in the Godhead.

your preconceived ideas about God, namely, Unitarianism.

I am not a Unitarian. Be careful about saying this again, I may report you for misrepresentation.

That is nonsensical. No one, not even God, is ever said to be with oneself. One has to ignore the plain meaning of language and logic to come to such a conclusion. Your Unitarianism is forcing you to change the meaning of John 1:1. As I have stated, C. S. Lewis said that nonsense is still nonsense even when it is spoken of about God. If you're going to do away with logic, you actually do away with God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is both God and with God.

Thus, God is with Himself; the Word is with Himself.

I'll pray for you that Jesus takes the blinders off.

I've given some substantial arguments from Scripture and reason that completely contradict your position. That you twist Scripture to try and fit your position is of no help.

I have seen no such arguments. And you are accusing me of twisting scripture, an accusation without evidence. The burden of proof is on you to prove that I am twisting scripture; because I don't think that I am doing so.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

 

[justbyfaith]

Free

You missed this (https://christianforums.net/threads/three-person-god-identified-in-the-bible.2858/post-1777286).

 

[Cooper]

No, I believe in one God. Trinitarianism fully affirms that there was , is, and ever will be only one God.

Who was the Word with for all eternity past? You still haven’t addressed this issue. John says the Word was with God. Who is he referring to? I’ll give you a hint: Jesus also said he was with someone for eternity past.

That proves you don't take any notice. I have told you many times that Jesus is the Word.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

That proves you don't take any notice. I have told you many times that Jesus is the Word.
.

he wants you to say that the Father is the God who was with the Word and that the Word is the Son only.

 

[Free]

Yet you teach that it is not God the Father, but God the Son, who descended and took on an added nature of human flesh.

Because that is what the Bible says and what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches, as stated in the Creeds.

That the Son is eternally begotten as one next to the Father in eternity, who is God.

Can you not see that you are purporting more than one God here?

No, there isn't more than one God. Here is part of an article by Douglas K. Blount:

" Now if Christians said both that (1a) there exists precisely one God, and that (1b) it is not the case there exists precisely one God, they would contradict themselves. So also if they said both that (2a) there are three divine persons, and that (2b) it is not the case that there are three divine persons, they would also contradict themselves. But Christians do not affirm both 1a and 1b. Neither do they affirm both 2a and 2b. Rather, they affirm 1a and 2a. And this would be contradictory only if either 1a entails 2b or 2a entails 1b.
To put the point differently, when Christians say that God is both one and three, they do not say that He is one in the same way in which He is three. So, for instance, they do not say both that (1a) there exists precisely one God, and that (1c) there exist three gods. Nor do they say both that (2a) there are three divine persons, and that (2c) there exists only one divine person.
Since 1c entails 1b, affirming both it and 1a would be contradictory. And since 2c entails 2b, affirming both it and 2a would also be contradictory. But, as a matter of fact, Christians deny both 1c and 2c. In affirming 1a and 2a, then, Christians affirm that in one way God is one and in another way He is three. And in so doing they do not contradict themselves.
So, then, those who think the doctrine of the Trinity is contradictory misunderstand either the nature of a contradiction or the doctrine itself. Perhaps they confuse contradiction with mere paradox, taking our inability to understand how the doctrine is true to entail that it is false. But our inability to understand how God is both one and three tells us far more about ourselves than it does about God. The Bible represents God as both one and three; that suffices for us to know that He is so, regardless of whether we understand the how of it." (The Apologetics Study Bible, pp. 1459-60)

Perhaps you can explain to us how God the Father and God the Son are one God from your perspective.

Since you proclaim that the Father IS NOT the Son...

That is what they Bible and the Creeds say.

In what manner are they one God?

Each person of the Trinity is truly and fully God, yet they are of the same substance, which is the substance that is God--one What and three Whos, as it is often put. What we are ultimately left with, is that the Bible reveals that there is only one God, yet, there is a threeness that is essential to his nature. That is, he was never not, in some way, three, yet he is the only God.

 

[Free]

That proves you don't take any notice. I have told you many times that Jesus is the Word.
.

You are not even addressing the point I am making and you say that I don't take any notice? I was not at all asking who you think the Word is. I was very clearly asking you who was the Word with for all eternity past. This is a significant problem with your position.

he wants you to say that the Father is the God who was with the Word and that the Word is the Son only.

Yes, because that is the only logical conclusion.

 

[justbyfaith]

Each person of the Trinity is truly and fully God, yet they are of the same substance, which is the substance that is God--one What and three Whos, as it is often put. What we are ultimately left with, is that the Bible reveals that there is only one God, yet, there is a threeness that is essential to his nature. That is, he was never not, in some way, three, yet he is the only God.

So, you are saying that there are three Persons who carry the substance of God, and each one is not any of the others.

I'm sorry, that is reminiscent of three Gods.

Do you deny that the substance of God is that He is a Spirit (John 4:24)?

 

[Free]

Free

You missed this (https://christianforums.net/threads/three-person-god-identified-in-the-bible.2858/post-1777286).

Please, don't be so quick to say that something was missed. I'll get to things when I get to them, as I did with that post.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, because that is the only logical conclusion.

Actually, no.

If you take 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, and James 3:9 (kjv), and do an algebraic substitution,

It becomes clear that the Word was with the Father and the Word was the Father.

You can also substitute the Trinitarian view of "God" and it turns out as:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, and the Word was the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.