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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
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Yes amen.
The three distinct individials of the context, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one.
These three individuals are one:
Godhead
Family
Spirit
JLB
Yes I've seen in scripture what God inspired men to write down. The scriptures say Jesus is the Word of God, and that God was in Christ, and that Jesus is the Son of God, but God didn't inspire men to write down that, Jesus is God.
Something else that God inspired men to write down is what Jesus himself said at John 17:3 he said while praying, "this means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only True God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. Also at John 20:17, Jesus Christ said he has a Father and God which is his apostles and disciples, Father and God.
So I find it strange that God can inspire men to write down things like Jesus is the son of God, that God is in Christ, and that Jesus is the word of God, and that Jesus said he has a Father and God that is also his apostles and disciples Father but God didn't inspire men to write down that Jesus is God. If God can inspire men to write down all these other things about Jesus, why couldn't he inspire men to write down that Jesus is God?
You can believe and teach that Jesus is God, that's your right, but nowhere did God inspire it to be written down that Jesus is God. I believe what God inspired to be written down, not the interpretation of men concerning what God had written down.
Jesus would not have said outright he was God, they would have stoned him to death, and his time was not yet. They say actions speak louder than words, and His actions spoke volumes, but he did say I and the Father are one, and he did say before Abraham I AM. Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God."
At John 20:17 Jesus outright admitted to his apostles and disciples that he wasn't their Father and God but instead he told them that person who was his Father and God was their Father and God.
So since Jesus outright said he wasn't his apostles and disciples Father and God, Jesus would never have said he was God, not because he would have been Stoned to death but because if he had said that he was his apostles and disciples Father and God, he would have been lying since he outright admitted that he wasn't the Father and God of his apostles and disciples.
Also you saying that Jesus would not outright admit he was God because they would have stoned him makes no since because Jesus said at John 10:31-36 that God was his Father and because he said that they wanted to kill him because the Jews said he was making himself equal to God, and his time was not yet when he said that. So if Jesus wouldn't have said he was God because of the fact the Jews would want to kill him and it wasn't Jesus time yet, then it wouldn't make sense that Jesus would have said that God was his Father if saying something like that he would be concerned about the Jews killing him because it wasn't his time yet.
The scripture at John 10:25-30 where Jesus says, I and the Father are one, is not saying that he and God are the same person because the context in which Jesus’ words appear in the Biblical narrative reveal what he meant. A group of Jews had encircled him, demanding that he tell them outspokenly whether he was indeed the Christ. Answering them, Jesus stated: “I have told you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name are my witness; but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine. The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from me. The Father who gave them to me is greater than anyone, and no one can steal from the Father. The Father and I are one.”
Clearly Jesus Christ was not claiming to be his Father’s equal. He himself stated that he acted, not in his own name, but in the ‘name of his Father.’ He recognized his Father’s superior position and authority, acknowledging that the “sheep” had been given to him by his Father. He pointedly said that ‘the Father is greater than anyone.’ At the same time the Father and the Son are “one” in purpose respecting the salvation of the “sheep.” That is, both are equally concerned about the “sheep,” not allowing anyone to snatch them out of their hand.
That Jesus referred, not to an equality of godship, but to a oneness of purpose and action is confirmed by his prayer recorded at John 17:6-11 where Jesus said: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you, I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me; because they are yours, and all my things are yours and yours are mine. Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are.”
Note that the thoughts voiced by Jesus in this prayer are similar to his words recorded at John chapter 10. In John 17:3, 8, 11Jesus again acknowledged that his disciples, his “sheep,” were given to him by the Father. So the kind of oneness referred to in both of these chapters is the same. From Jesus’ prayer we can see that Jesus and his Father are “one” in the same sense that his true followers can be “one.” Obviously the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ could never become part of a triune God. However, they could be one in purpose and activity. Further proving that Jesus never claimed equality with his Father is the fact that, in his prayer, he addressed his Father as the "only true God" at John 17:3 and spoke of himself as his Father’s “representative.”
What Thomas said at John 20:28 My lord and my God, doesn't contradict what Jesus said. Do you think Jesus was lying when he said at John 20:17 that his Father and God was his apostles and disciples Father and God?
Three examples of God’s oneness.
“God made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.” (Php 2:7-8)
As John writes: "The Word (God) was made flesh." John 1:14
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
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I and My Father are one." (John 10:30)
You and I can say our father is in us, but only Jesus can say, the Father is in me, and "I in him," meaning they are literally one flesh and spirit, the Father present in Jesus.
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"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. (These are the disciples) They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine.
(The disciples belonged equally to the One God in heaven and on earth.)
(John 17:6-10)
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Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped (ESV)
That’s an example of twoness.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (ESV)
Another clear example of twoness.
Notice that the “son is given.” Jesus repeats this several times when he says that he was “sent by the Father.” Again, twoness.
Twoness.
Joh 14:20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you (ESV)
Are we literally one flesh and one spirit with Jesus?
And just three verses later:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him (ESV)
Very clearly then, Jesus thinks of the Father as a separate person, otherwise his use of plural pronouns makes no sense.
Again, twoness.
I have no problem with the oneness of God and his only begotten Son. It means they are united in agreement, united in love, united in purpose, etc. It doesn't mean they're the same person. YHWH is the Father and God of Jesus Christ. So Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of YHWH God. This means that YHWH God is the only true God that Jesus was praying to at John 17:3, and YHWH God is the Father and God that he said was his Father and God at John 20:17. So since Jesus said he has a Father and God that was also his apostles Father and God then YHWH God is his apostles Father and God.
Also throughout the scriptures they show that Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God is subject to his Father and God but God isn't subject to the only begotten Son of God. So although the true God YHWH has subjected all authority to his only begotten Son, God isn't subject to his only begotten Son's authority. So YHWH God has more authority than anyone including his only begotten Son. That means the only begotten Son of God Jesus Christ isn't equal to God.
Despite Jesus being before Abraham two thousand years ago, he humbled himself and put himself into our position, speaking as a man while doing Godly things. By our works, we are known. Be careful what you say.
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Just so people know the reason why God took on human flesh.
We read in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father full of grace and truth.” Because Jesus is the eternal God who became man He was able to redeem mankind from the first Adam to the last Adam and was able to take away the sins of the whole world. His Grace is all-encompassing.
As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sins. God as God could not forgive us our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise, He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.
But at the same time, our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of the eternal hell that our sin demands according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.
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We read in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father full of grace and truth.” Because Jesus is the eternal God who became man He was able to redeem mankind from the first Adam to the last Adam and was able to take away the sins of the whole world. His Grace is all-encompassing.
As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sins. God as God could not forgive us our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise, He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.
But at the same time, our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of the eternal hell that our sin demands according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.
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I used to think Father Christmas and my father were two persons until I discovered the truth.
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So, because one is spirit and the other is flesh, they cannot be the same person?
How many persons are we, seeing as we are body, soul and spirit?
Are we three persons?
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BPPLEE
Member
Someone can be subordinate to someone else and still be equal. I’m subordinate to my supervisor but we are both men. Jesus is subordinate to the Father but they are both God
That is in line with Trinitarianism and three separate persons. According to Trinitarism no one person is the other. They are distinct and separate from each other making it look like three gods. Your illustration of you and your supervisor makes that very clear, you and your supervisor are two individuals. The Bible clearly tells us GOD IS ONE and furthermore we are told God cannot be divided. Jesus emphasised that by saying, "I and the Father are One, and furthermore we are told Jesus pre-existed as the creator. Yet Trinitarism breaks the Almighty into three separate entities by using the word NOT which is totally inappropriate when applied to the One Almighty God who can do all things.
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Which is a false analogy, used to avoid answering my post, and has no bearing on what the Bible reveals about God. The Bible very clearly reveals that within the unity there is diversity.
If you would address what I said, that would be great.
BPPLEE
Member
There is only one God. Jesus also said believers are one
BPPLEE
Member
Yes he did. It’s in John 1
Waste of my time. Diversity within unity sounds like even more cultism.
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