Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

There is only one God. No Trinitarian would disagree with that. However, as I have shown several times throughout this thread, there is not a single verse that supports "God is One" in the way you are using it--that he is an absolute unity. Every verse that states "God is one," is a statement of monotheism, but even those leave the door open for a compound unity--that God could be triune. They don't necessarily support the Trinity but they don't refute it either.

To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 9:5)

Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:11)

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[Free]

To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 9:5)

Yes, Jesus is God. That is in full agreement with the doctrine of the Trinity and everything I have said in this thread.

Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. (Colossians 3:11)

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I actually dealt with this verse back on page 24, when you first used it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the nature of God, but rather how we treat each other, especially those different from us. Look at the context:

Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Col 3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. (ESV)

It's about proper Christian behaviour, particularly towards other believers, on the basis that we "have put on the new self." The whole point of 3:11 is that every believer, from every tribe and walk of life, belongs to Christ, and that is why we are to do all the other things Paul says to do.

 

[Cooper]

What about the verses I posted just now?
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[Cooper]

Free. You have to accept scripture. OKAY.

Including Isaiah 9:6.
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[jaybo]

I did and he told me to go away. He does not believe in 3 distinct persons of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit and states such is in error. I tried to limit myself to show the Father is not Jesus and Jesus is not the Father.

If my memory serves me Cooper stated he was Anglican as I once asked him if he was a oneness doctrine of God believer as his beliefs seem to follow that doctrine. He stated he was Anglican.

Well,
What are 3 core beliefs of Anglican?
Anglican tradition affirms three historic creeds: the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.

So you're not going to post Scripture??? Pay attention please!

 

[jaybo]

I would argue that no kind of god exists, so therefore deny that a three-person god can exist. That is, I deny polytheism. On the other hand, I would argue that God is tripersonal, one eternal uncreated society. That is, I affirm trinitarianism. The data is there, but takes time to systematise. It's not a proof-text doctrine. I would affirm that Jesus is not God, but that he is deific, the temporal mode of the uncreated eternal second person of deity.

No Scripture cited!

 

[Vinny37]

What do you mean by "the temporal mode of the uncreated eternal second person of deity"?

I mean what's on the tin. Jesus is a human being, yet is deific in the sense of being God the son incarnate: neither God the father; nor God the son noncarnate; nor God the spirit. Jesus is the only mode in time and space (the temporal mode), of God the son (who is the uncreated eternal second person of deity).

 

[Free]

I mean what's on the tin. Jesus is a human being, yet is deific in the sense of being God the son incarnate: neither God the father; nor God the son noncarnate; nor God the spirit.

Do you agree that Jesus is truly man and truly God, two natures within the one person?

Jesus is the only mode in time and space (the temporal mode), of God the son (who is the uncreated eternal second person of deity).

I'm not so sure that it is temporal. It seems that for all eternity Jesus will be the God-man.

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (ESV)

 

[Vinny37]

No Scripture cited!

As I tried to make clear, this IMO, is not a proof-text truth. Many texts, often in non-systematic format, must be juggled around to distil their systematic sense. One could take Gen.1:26 (imagodei), and see a societal aspect (eg male & female together = adam/man: Gen.5:2. By analogy, might the term God, include a plurality?). The OT is not a happy hunting ground for trinitarianism, and IMO it was never fully into true monotheism, yet alone grasping tripersonal monotheism. IMO Yahweh never intended Ethnic Israel to grasp even true monotheism in simple, but asked EI to offer him exclusive loyalty within its mindset of polytheism.

Hints of Jesus as distinct from God the father, yet deific, crop up in the Gospels. John had a with/was (as with God the father and was deity incarnate) tension in 1:1. 1:18 (WH) also hints at deity as being plural; 8:58 (the absolute form of εγω ειμι); Mt.28:19—in mere monopersonal monotheism, if God's spirit (assuming impersonal) was mentioned next to God, one would not expect any person in-between; moreover does not one name imply the son as sharing equality of position? One could look at texts where the spirit seems to have personal attributes.

For NT texts vis-à-vis God’s son, looking at Jhn.1:1; Jhn.1:18; Rm.9:5; Tts.2:13; & 2 Pt.1:1, a strong grammatical case can be laid out. I’d leave out Ac.20:28 & Heb.1:8, since they are not straightforward and arguably do not assert, even though they do not deny, Christ’s deificity. On balance, I rate the NET best for these texts.

There are many triple mentions of what to trinitarians look, well, trinitarian (eg Eph.2:18). I cannot proof-text that 2+2 will equal 4, but it seems to cohere.

Some texts might appear to deny deificity (deity-ness) to Jesus. However, initial reactions can mislead. Eg, 1 Cor.8:6 might seem to do so; but then it equally denies lordship to God the father. On this text, if we do not deny lordship to the father, we must not deny deity to the son.

The trinitarian lens works for me. Like C S Lewis—to put it simply—I do not see the sun, but I see all things by the sun.

 

[Vinny37]

Do you agree that Jesus is truly man and truly God, two natures within the one person?


I'm not so sure that it is temporal. It seems that for all eternity Jesus will be the God-man.

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (ESV)

Just to cover your first bit:
Is Jesus fully man? Yes, as Second Adam, unfallen. Is Jesus fully God? I would not phrase it that way—too much confusing baggage. Is he the incarnate form/mode of God the son? Yes. Is Jesus two natures within…one person? Not IMO: I no longer buy into hypostatic union Christology (Chalcedon). I would rather say, one nature as one human person (monothelitism), God the son noncarnate, incarnate, as a ray of the blessed sun unmingled, but enrobed in adamic form (as fully human yet with deific linkage).

 

[Free]

Just to cover your first bit:
Is Jesus fully man? Yes, as Second Adam, unfallen. Is Jesus fully God? I would not phrase it that way—too much confusing baggage.

Actually, that is why I said "truly man and truly God." Some say 100% man and 100% God, but I find bringing in percentages to be the most confusing, similar to the word "fully." By "truly God," I mean that God cannot cease being God. So, being God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, incarnate, he remains that.

Is he the incarnate form/mode of God the son? Yes. Is Jesus two natures within…one person? Not IMO: I no longer buy into hypostatic union Christology (Chalcedon). I would rather say, one nature as one human person (monothelitism), God the son noncarnate, incarnate, as a ray of the blessed sun unmingled, but enrobed in adamic form (as fully human yet with deific linkage).

I still think the two natures in one person best explains some of the things Jesus says, such as claiming to be the I Am, yet praying to the Father to take his cup away if it were possible. Ultimately, I think that is getting into the mystery that we cannot know with certainty, so it's not a hill I will die on, unlike the deity of Christ.

 

[Vinny37]

Actually, that is why I said "truly man and truly God." Some say 100% man and 100% God, but I find bringing in percentages to be the most confusing, similar to the word "fully." By "truly God," I mean that God cannot cease being God. So, being God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, incarnate, he remains that.


I still think the two natures in one person best explains some of the things Jesus says, such as claiming to be the I Am, yet praying to the Father to take his cup away if it were possible. Ultimately, I think that is getting into the mystery that we cannot know with certainty, so it's not a hill I will die on, unlike the deity of Christ.

You said: [So, being God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, incarnate, he remains that.]

Yes, but the incarnate does not remain the omni*. That is one reason I nowadays shy away from saying that Jesus is God, or even that he is God-the-son. A Christological qualification must be added, IMO. Thus not being God (though deific), Jesus could not foresee/see the future, or work miracles, anymore than can we.

You said: [Ultimately, I think that is getting into the mystery that we cannot know with certainty, so it’s not a hill I will die on, unlike the deity of Christ.]

Yes, I agree. When one moves from Huiology to Christology, one moves into a fuzzier zone, and neither of us deems our respective hill as strategic enough to die for, though handy viewpoints.

 

[Free]

You said: [So, being God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, incarnate, he remains that.]

Yes, but the incarnate does not remain the omni*. That is one reason I nowadays shy away from saying that Jesus is God, or even that he is God-the-son. A Christological qualification must be added, IMO. Thus not being God (though deific), Jesus could not foresee/see the future, or work miracles, anymore than can we.

No, but that is where Phil 2:5-8 comes in--the Son somehow limited the use of his divine prerogatives in subjecting himself to the Father in the economical Trinity. But, again, I don't see how being God in nature is something that could actually be given up, even in the limitations of the human form.

You said: [Ultimately, I think that is getting into the mystery that we cannot know with certainty, so it’s not a hill I will die on, unlike the deity of Christ.]

Yes, I agree. When one moves from Huiology to Christology, one moves into a fuzzier zone, and neither of us deems our respective hill as strategic enough to die for, though handy viewpoints.

Yes, they are handy to know where one is coming from.

 

[Vinny37]

No, but that is where Phil 2:5-8 comes in--the Son somehow limited the use of his divine prerogatives in subjecting himself to the Father in the economical Trinity. But, again, I don't see how being God in nature is something that could actually be given up, even in the limitations of the human form.


Yes, they are handy to know where one is coming from.

Php.2:5 formally has the term, Christ Jesus. Pastorally it was spoken to fellow believers. You might be aware of exegetical options, here. Was it theologically of the noncarnate son in becoming (morphing into?) the incarnate son? Or was it of the incarnate son (second adam), who unlike the first adam (in the form/μορφη of God?) dot dot dot? It’s a biggy. However, I think the NIV2022 offers some help for v6, in that the son (however meant), voluntarily did not as a human being access deity rights.

Anyway, it’s nighttime for me, with some final chores of the day.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did and he told me to go away. He does not believe in 3 distinct persons of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit and states such is in error. I tried to limit myself to show the Father is not Jesus and Jesus is not the Father.

If my memory serves me Cooper stated he was Anglican as I once asked him if he was a oneness doctrine of God believer as his beliefs seem to follow that doctrine. He stated he was Anglican.

Well,
What are 3 core beliefs of Anglican?
Anglican tradition affirms three historic creeds: the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.

All the creeds affirm the Trinity.
It's not easy to discuss the Trinity.

 

[GodsGrace]

God, the creator is Spirit. Jesus was born of the spirit giving us God in the flesh. He is God made visible. One God and not three. The one God came down from heaven's glory. The inclusion of the Holy Spirit makes One tripartite God in our likeness because like God we are body soul and spirit while being one person. We are one tri-part person and likewise for the one omnipresent god. There can only be one supreme being who is God overall.

url="true"]https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/god-came-down[/URL]

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You really contradict yourself somewhat.

You stated:
God the creator is spirit.
OK

Jesus was born of the Spirit, giving us God in the flesh
OK

Jesus is God made visible.
OK

There is One God. Not 3.
OK

The One God came down....
??

If the One God came down, what happened to the spirit being in heaven that upholds the universe and everything in it?
1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[jasonc]

That's why I as a former non trinitarian don't debate this at length.

Trying to grasp that carnally isn't going to happen .

Carry on .

 

[BPPLEE]

Jesus IS the Word. It is the pre-incarnate Jesus who created heaven and earth. He is our ALL-IN-ALL. Colossians 3:11.
So why do people elevate the Father over the Word when it was the Word who inseminated Mary?

The Word remaining in glory while being flesh on earth. One God in heaven and on earth.
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1Co 15:24 - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all-rule and all authority and power.

 

[Cooper]

You really contradict yourself somewhat.

You stated:
God the creator is spirit.
OK

Jesus was born of the Spirit, giving us God in the flesh
OK

Jesus is God made visible.
OK

There is One God. No 3.
OK

The One God came down....
??

If the One God came down, what happened to the spirit being in heaven that upholds the universe and everything in it?
1 Corinthians 8:6

But to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

This is a wonderful verse in which the words Son and Holy Spirit do not appear, ruling out a triune God. Instead, we read of one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we exist. Christ is called Lord eighty-five times in the KJV. The Lord is One, and Jesus is Lord.

God is Spirit (John 4:24), upholding the universe and everything in it. The Spirit was made visible in the flesh of Jesus Christ, the invisible God made visible to us, and is with us now, sent by Christ the living Lord, who came among us in flesh and blood.

All things are from the Father, and all things are through Jesus Christ, through whom we exist. Father and Son are One God.

God is One.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
To you, it was shown that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35.

 

[Randy]

But to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

This is a wonderful verse in which the words Son and Holy Spirit do not appear, ruling out a triune God. Instead, we read of one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we exist. Christ is called Lord eighty-five times in the KJV. The Lord is One, and Jesus is Lord.

God is Spirit (John 4:24), upholding the universe and everything in it. The Spirit was made visible in the flesh of Jesus Christ, the invisible God made visible to us, and is with us now, sent by Christ the living Lord, who came among us in flesh and blood.

All things are from the Father, and all things are through Jesus Christ, through whom we exist. Father and Son are One God.

God is One.
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
To you, it was shown that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35.

I can address these issues but not without offending others. So I will limit myself. But no one has changed their outlook in this thread its just a back and forth loop.

But I can show how "Jesus" testified oneness and the unity in as you state "the Father's as the One Deity"

Jesus performed the Fathers works. He credited the ability to the "Father" in Him.
John 10:37-39 New International Version (NIV)
Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

The disciples asked Jesus to show them the Father.
John 14:8-21
New International Version
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves
That's Jesus and the Father united in one Deity. By that Deity and Jesus credited the Father, He can, like no other before Him nor after Him, like the Father Himself perform the Father's works at "His" will.

Matthew
Jesus Calms the Storm

23Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”

26He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

27The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”

If you lived in the days of the Son of Man's ministry you could have a conversation with Him, not the Father, and Jesus could speak to you thoughts from His mind.

Likewise the one God exalted to His right hand and the one God put all things under, not meaning God Himself, sat down "with" the Father on His Fathers throne..

Revelation 3:21

New International Version​

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

John 14
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Clearly the exalted Jesus and Father are still united in One Deity.

Such unity was also noted before the world began.
Col 1:19

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It wasn't the person of the Father on the cross but the one He called His Son whom He loves and in Him God was well pleased.
Colossians 1:19 In-Context
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


I don't find fault in your outlook of one God the Father but in overlooking the person of the Lord Jesus as one who is not the Father. As stated He and the Father are united in one Deity who Jesus identified as the Father living in Him. And Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever.

Hebrews 13:8
New International Version
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.