No, it doesn't, if one understands it properly.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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That is what we are discussing.
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Go on then. Explain it and make sure you don't dishonour the Almighty by using the word NOT.
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Not all of you.
I have tried. You refuse to listen and prefer the straw man of polytheism.
I hate polytheism that says the Father is Not the Son. The Son is Not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
That's your precious diagram that makes three gods which you defend.
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There you go; straw man. You simply do not understand, nor seem to care to try and understand, the doctrine of the Trinity.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I think he's trying.
It's not easy.
I have yet to see any Trinitarian explain the relevance of the word 'not' in relation to the Almighty.
It denies the omnipotence and omnipresence of God.
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Okay. Please believe me when I say that the trinitarianism does not teach polytheism. One of its very foundations, one of the very reasons for the doctrine, is that there was, is, and always will be only one God. It is fundamentally monotheistic.
These are the main issues in God's revelation of himself to us:
1. There is only one God, one indivisible substance. On that we must be absolutely clear.
2. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
3. They are coequal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. This means they have always been and will always be distinct "persons" (probably the best and closest word we can use to describe them, at least in layman's terms).
So, whatever we come to believe of God, we must make sense of all of those things together. We cannot use one to trump the others. To say that in "eternity past," God was an absolute unity (only one person), would contradict some passages and has no real support in Scripture. We would have to set aside the plain use of language, rules of grammar, and logic. That God has always existed as a compound unity (three persons within the one being that is God), is supported; in the very least, there is nothing to really refute it.
Is this confusing? Of course! Can anyone fully comprehend it? Of course not. God is infinite and if we think we can fully understand his existence in and of himself, then he is a god of our own making. So, there is a point where one simply has to take it on faith (based on reason and evidence) that ontologically, God exists as three persons of one substance.
That isn't true. I have explained the relevance of it in this thread: "It speaks to the distinction that the Bible itself gives" (post #641). We must maintain the distinctions between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit within God, since the Bible does.
1. Indivisible substance.
The diagram says the Father is not the Son, etc. etc. IT DIVIDES. Are you so blind?
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One God, one substance, three eternally distinct persons--there is no division in substance. You keep thinking that 1+1+1=3, but don't seem to consider that 1x1x1=1.
Please stop with the personal insults.
Who said anything about divided.
We are one spirit with the Lord, yet we are two distinct individuals.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17
JLB
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Do you believe Constantine made up the doctrine of the Trinity?
The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine
Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.
www.ucg.org
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Hi Cooper.The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine
Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.
Must leave the house.
Later...
In the meantime,,,,do you know what Divine Simplicity is?
Look it up.
Again, no one mentioned anything about God being divided.
Those are your words.
You are making up things no one has said and are building your “case” around a word that was never mentioned.
Why?
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
These three (divine persons of the Godhead) are one.
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;… Genesis 1:26
God (Elohim) is plural.
JLB
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19
Jesus says there are three.
JLB
Cooper, do you believe the trinity was given through Jesus and His Apostles or later by others?.The Surprising Origins of the Trinity Doctrine
Few understand how the Trinity doctrine came to be accepted - several centuries after the Bible was completed! Yet its roots go back much farther in history.
In regard to onesness.
Jesus spoke of the Deity living in Him. Did He state it was His Deity or did He identify another Deity living in Him doing their work?
Others have already presented Jesus speaking of the Spirit as another. Does the Father speak of that Spirit as another?
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