TULIP - Irresistible Grace

[GodsGrace]

Yes, but who is the "we."
1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours
1 Corinthians 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit.

He is writing to people who are already Christians. Of course they have received the Spirit from God.

I know this W.
Did I say otherwise?

You seem to see spiritual truth as being broadcast out there like a wireless signal for anybody to just pick up willy-nilly. Square your free will with Jesus:

Correct. I DO see spiritual truth as you've stated.
You see,,,spiritual truth is for EVERYONE.
The gospel is for EVERYONE.
NOT for just the saved....as calvinists seem to think.
The saved are already saved and the preaching of THE GOOD NEWS is no longer needed for them.
The problem is that, in calvinism, there IS NO GOOD NEWS.
Or, if you could explain to me what the good news is, I'd be interesed.
So far, after many years, no calvinist has been able to explain the GOOD NEWS of the gospel.
Is the good news that only a few lucky ones have been saved and too bad for the rest?
Doesn't sound like good news.

Also, you're neglecting Romans 1 and 2 which I've brought up and which you ignore to respond to.
Here it is again:
Romans 1:18-20 Why will no man be without excuse?
Romans 2:11-15 How are those without the law judged?

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64

The Spirit gives life the flesh is no help at all or profits nothing. The flesh- man and his free will is no help at all.

I agree except for the free will part, of course.
Your verse John 6:63.....does it mention HOW we get the spirit?
No. You are reading into it what you believe to be true.

See John 6:64 it states that Jesus KNEW who would be saved.
The scriptures NEVER say God predestined WHO would be saved.
Big difference W.

Notice verses 64 and 65. That parenthesis was put in there by John. Eliminate it and you have just what Jesus said:
But there are some of you who do not believe.” And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Yes... It is GRANTED by the Father.
Two points:
1. God saves us when we cry out to Him.
He gives us to the Son,,,JESUS,,,who is our atonement...God Father gives us to Jesus for salvation.

2. What does GRANT mean?

grant
/ɡrɑːnt/
https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...2ahUKEwjjtOTyi7SMAxVG0AIHHfdsCMEQ3eEDegQIOhAM
verb

1. 1.
   agree to give or allow (something requested) to.
   "they were granted a meeting"
   
   
   
2. 2.
   agree or admit to (someone) that (something) is true.
   "he hasn't made much progress, I'll grant you that"

Jesus is saying that those of them that didn't believe, didn't believe because it wasn't granted to them to believe by the Father.

Could you please post your verses and show where it states what YOU have said?
Thanks. (I don't see it).

You say that predestination isn't about people but about a process and then tell me that God desires all men to be saved. Have you ever really medicated on the logic of this statement?

The logic in mainline Christianity is VERY LOGICAL W.
As I've been saying all along....you just either do not listen or do not WISH to hear.

If the NT is telling us that GOD WANTS ALL MEN TO BE SAVED
then
WHY ARE THEY NOT ALL SAVED?

Here's your LOGICAL reply:
Because not all men will adhere to God's requirements.
1. To believe in Jesus
2. To obey Jesus

Persons CHOOSE to be saved by BELIEVING.
Acts 16:31 BELIEVE AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.

NOWHERE in scripture does it state that God predestines AN INDIVIDUAL for salvation.
Predestination is for
PURPOSE
METHOD

Scripture explains HOW we are saved.
For instance:
Ephesians 1:4-5 NASB
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Now look carefully:
Verse 4 Paul is speaking to saved persons.
They were CHOSEN IN HIM....they were chosen IN JESUS before the foundation of the world.
It's IN JESUS that they are saved. This is a METHOD. IN JESUS so they could be holy and blameless before Him.

Verse 5 God PREDESTINED us to adoption THROUGH JESUS.
This is the will of God....as from Genesis 3:21 THROUGH the sacrifice of Jesus we are adopted.
This is a METHOD. We are adopted as sons through Jesus.

God desires all men to be saved and so predestined a plan that results in few being saved.

Agreed.
God predestined A PLAN.
Correct.

Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Correct. Jesus said it, it must be right!

In an earlier post you said I was assuming things about you and said
Let's stick to scripture please.

But that does no good. If your worldview makes you interpret Scripture contrary to mine, then what good does it do?

I see what you mean.
BUT where do you get the worldview that God predestined YOU to be saved and not your neighbor?
A worldview is different but let's not get into that.

If you plainly read scripture and leave predispositions (which is what you're referring to with "worldview") behind...you will not find reformed/calvinist beliefs in the NT. They just are not there. I can go through any amount of verses with you and show how they are not calvinist.

Calvinists even insist that John 3:16 doesn't mean what it does.
And yet every evangelist uses this scripture in their attempt to invite a person to the Christian faith.

How would YOU invite a person to the Christian faith?
You cannot.
Because in your belief system, it's not even up to them.
So no invitation is possible...it would be a lie.

John 3:16 says WHOSOEVER BELIEVES WILL NOT PERISH.

WHY do calvinists think this means that only the saved will not perish?
Why would Jesus say such a mean thing?
Why proclaim that only the saved can be saved?
And no one else!
It makes no sense.

I just checked and this thread has had 175 replies. That is probably just a dozen or so of us. But it has had 922 views. That means a lot of people are looking at it and are curious. I'm thinking more of maybe giving some of them something to think about they might not hear from their friends or Church.

Well Whatever...
I agree with you.

We need to post both views and understandings.
And then it's up to the Holy Spirit to lead.

The New Testament is for all persons.
The invitation to be part of God's family is for all persons.

God is not partial but desires all men to be saved.
Romans 2:11
1 Timothy 2:4

 

[Whatever]

BUT where do you get the worldview that God predestined YOU to be saved and not your neighbor?

That is not a worldview it is what Paul says:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

God chooses individuals for salvation. The method is through (by means of) sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth

Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

God chooses individuals to grant the ability to believe in Jesus.

If you and me believe in Jesus then we are part of the you. My neighbor might not be. Then again he might be part of the you, the Spirit just hasn't worked in him yet. Everything in God's time.

God is not partial but desires all men to be saved.

Again, I'm not so sure about that. Read in Matthew 13 about the wheat and the tares. Here is just part of the explanation by Jesus:

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

Putting away what I think ought to be right, I let these verses tell me something.
1. Some people are born sons of the kingdom
2. Some people are born tares
3. The tares are burned up no matter what they do.

This fits with another passage:
Matthew 15:12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" 13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

It seems to me that Jesus is referring to these Pharisees as tares. Over and over He tells them their father is the devil. (John 8:44)

And what did Jesus say to them before that:
John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

What happened to their free will?

Luke 22:67 "If You are the Christ, tell us." But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will by no means believe.
The King James has it simply as "you will not." Strongs says it is two words together oo and may.
oo = A primary word; the absolutely negative
may = A primary particle of qualified negation
So it says the two words together are a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all: - any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise).

So Jesus tells us that these guys will by no means believe. Again, what about their free will. No matter what psychological or what ever reason they have to not believe, they must always have the ability to choose otherwise right?

 

[Whatever]

The spiritual truth is being broadcast for anybody to pick up willy-nilly , they just need the necessary equipment set on the proper channel.

Yes, and that is the sovereign job of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Whatever]

There are many forces keeping persons from God...
But one of them is not God because He desires for all men to be saved.

John 12:37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” 39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

This was a judicial hardening of the Jews by God to fulfill a prophecy.

Paul in Romans 11 says that God has not totally rejected all the Jews. God has never intended to save every Jew.
Romans 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

So God left some Jews to believe. And if chosen by grace, that does not mean that God chose them because of merit - because they repented or called upon Him.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”

God elected certain Jews to be saved, purely by His grace and He hardened the rest to keep them from hearing.
He had a plan, but it was not to save every person.
You have to understand the whole process God was working. He was going to bring in the Gentiles to make the Jews jealous, and thus later on, the Jews would come back to faith in Jesus and thus "all Israel will be saved."

Romans 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

But that partial hardening of God's plan, still resulted in many, many Jews perishing. It's still happening today. It will only stop in God's timing.

 

[hawkman]

Yes, and that is the sovereign job of the Holy Spirit.

How do you see that job being accomplished in our world ?

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

How do you see that job being accomplished in our world ?

By Spirit-to-spirit communications?

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Ro 8:16).​

 

[Whatever]

How do you see that job being accomplished in our world ?

Exactly as God intended! He is bringing many sons to glory. (Heb 2:10)

 

[Whatever]

Is the good news that only a few lucky ones have been saved and too bad for the rest?
Doesn't sound like good news.

Tell that to Jesus.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Draw = G1670 = helkuō helkō - Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw.
G138 - aihreomai - Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer.
G142 - airō - A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away

Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

I wonder if those "called" are those the Father has drawn?

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

The good news is not good news for everybody.

Isaiah 8:13 But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.”

We don't know who the called are or aren't. So we preach the same message to everybody.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.

Charles Spurgeon was a preacher about 100 or so years ago in England. He was walking down the street one day and a drunk guy came up to him and said "you saved me 5 years ago." Spurgeon said "I must have saved you because it sure wasn't the Lord."

 

[GodsGrace]

Tell that to Jesus.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Draw = G1670 = helkuō helkō - Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw.
G138 - aihreomai - Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer.
G142 - airō - A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away

Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

I wonder if those "called" are those the Father has drawn?

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

The good news is not good news for everybody.

Thanks for admitting this W.
Instead, Christianity teaches that the gospel is for everyone and that everyone is invited.

BTW,,,,call means invited.
And your strong's definition is wrong.
Draw and drag are different and the NT uses both words correctly.
Jesus DRAWS all men to Himself. John 12:32
Some were DRAGGED. Acts 21:30, 17:6, 8:3

You've stated that John 6:44 is using strong's 1670.
John 12:32 also uses strong's 1670.
Think of it: If John 12:32 meant what Strong's says...ALL PERSONS WOULD BE SAVED.

Looks like you should trust the translators.

Isaiah 8:13 But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.”

We don't know who the called are or aren't. So we preach the same message to everybody.

Right. Correct.
Except that for the rest of Christianity...
we CAN know who wants to be saved and who WILL be saved because
it is THEIR CHOICE to follow Jesus, to become a disciple.
I can preach the gospel to everyone and not have to lie about it
because I know I'm preaching the truth.

Are YOU preaching the truth W?
What IS the truth?

"I'm preaching the gospel to you but you have no control over your destiny.
So we're just spending some time here because we have nothing better to do since it's God
that will be deciding whether or not you're saved".

Yeah. That sounds about right.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.

Amen.
God gave THE GROWTH....
We, as Christians, MATURE.
It does not mean that God CHOSE the person.

Charles Spurgeon was a preacher about 100 or so years ago in England. He was walking down the street one day and a drunk guy came up to him and said "you saved me 5 years ago." Spurgeon said "I must have saved you because it sure wasn't the Lord."

That's a good one W!
Thanks.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Tell that to Jesus.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Draw = G1670 = helkuō helkō - Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw.
G138 - aihreomai - Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer.
G142 - airō - A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away

Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

I wonder if those "called" are those the Father has drawn?

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

The good news is not good news for everybody.

Isaiah 8:13 But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.”

We don't know who the called are or aren't. So we preach the same message to everybody.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.

Charles Spurgeon was a preacher about 100 or so years ago in England. He was walking down the street one day and a drunk guy came up to him and said "you saved me 5 years ago." Spurgeon said "I must have saved you because it sure wasn't the Lord."

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all (1 Ti 2:3–6).​

Can you explain the Reformed view of God's desire for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?

 

[brightfame52]

Whatever

The good news is not good news for everybody.

Correct, to the lost, perishing, its foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. and that is Gods purpose for them and the Gospel

 

[GodsGrace]

Whatever



Correct, to the lost, perishing, its foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. and that is Gods purpose for them and the Gospel

Thanks for confirming the undersanding of the reformed regarding the gospel....
which means GOOD NEWS.

So could YOU tell us what the GOOD NEWS is?
I've asked many calvinists and have never received a reply.

Paul stated that the good news, the gospel is for EVERYONE.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 3:22-23
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[Whatever]

Can you explain the Reformed view of God's desire for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?

I have given you several passages in the OT where God says that He will do all His desire. If He has purposed it, He will bring it to pass. And passages like:

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

This tells me that if God has sent out His Word (gospel) for the purpose of saving everybody, that is what it would accomplish. Since we all know this doesn't happen I accept that this is not His purpose. I can't imagine God desiring something that is not His purpose.

I've also shown many times that the word "all" can mean "all without distinction" (you know - for the Jew and also for the Greek.)

And then I've shown from Revelation that a multitude that no man could number, people from every nation, tribe and tongue are what ends up being saved. I assume this was God's purpose and His Word did not return to Him void.

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Paul interprets the verse above:
Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Want more that God does not intend to save everybody?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8 In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. 9 And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”

God's purpose is to refine a bunch of people and to bring them to glory with Him in the New Heaven and New Earth. (Hebrews 2:10)

 

[Whatever]

Instead, Christianity teaches that the gospel is for everyone and that everyone is invited.

We are to preach it to everyone and invite everyone. But a lot of those "everyone's" will mock and ridicule the gospel. It will be a stumbling block or foolishness to them.

2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I believe "the message of the cross" is what is called the gospel = good news. But to some it is foolishness and leads to their perishing - not good news.

 

[Whatever]

Paul stated that the good news, the gospel is for EVERYONE.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 3:22-23
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

I don't see everyone without exception in those passages.
It is for
everyone who believes whether Jew or Greek or Mexican or Swedish etc.
Again for all who believe there is no distinction
Everyone without distinction has sinned, but only those who believe will be saved.

Again, for the 50th time, do you not believe in the omniscience and foreknowledge of God who knows "the end from the beginning"? An omniscient God would know from the beginning all who would and all who would not
believe. It would be insanity for Him to desire the salvation of people that He infallibly knows will not be saved.

 

[JLB]

I don't see everyone without exception in those passages.
It is for
everyone who believes whether Jew or Greek or Mexican or Swedish etc.

Jew or Gentile covers every ethnic group in the world.

 

[JLB]

Again, for the 50th time, do you not believe in the omniscience and foreknowledge of God who knows "the end from the beginning"? An omniscient God would know from the beginning all who would and all who would not
believe. It would be insanity for Him to desire the salvation of people that He infallibly knows will not be saved.

Can someone be blotted out of the book of life?

 

[brightfame52]

Thanks for confirming the undersanding of the reformed regarding the gospel....
which means GOOD NEWS.

So could YOU tell us what the GOOD NEWS is?
I've asked many calvinists and have never received a reply.

Paul stated that the good news, the gospel is for EVERYONE.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 3:22-23
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The Gospel is foolishness to the Lost, not good news 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So when they hear the preaching of the Cross, which is also the Gospel, they dont hear good news, but foolishness.

 

[JLB]

The Gospel is foolishness to the Lost, not good news 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So when they hear the preaching of the Cross, which is also the Gospel, they dont hear good news, but foolishness.

Yes the cross, not Calvinism.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

You keep asking the same questions over and over like a zombie bot.

I have given you several passages in the OT where God says that He will do all His desire. If He has purposed it, He will bring it to pass. And passages like:

Isaiah 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

This tells me that if God has sent out His Word (gospel) for the purpose of saving everybody, that is what it would accomplish. Since we all know this doesn't happen I accept that this is not His purpose. I can't imagine God desiring something that is not His purpose.

I've also shown many times that the word "all" can mean "all without distinction" (you know - for the Jew and also for the Greek.)

And then I've shown from Revelation that a multitude that no man could number, people from every nation, tribe and tongue are what ends up being saved. I assume this was God's purpose and His Word did not return to Him void.

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Paul interprets the verse above:
Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Want more that God does not intend to save everybody?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
8 In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. 9 And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”

God's purpose is to refine a bunch of people and to bring them to glory with Him in the New Heaven and New Earth. (Hebrews 2:10)

I don't remember asking this question recently. But thanks for answering it.

So, your answer is that God really doesn't want everyone to be saved because otherwise He would save everyone. To explain the verbabe of 1 Timothy 2:4, you interpret "all" to refer only to the elect.

I had expected a more technical explanation related to the differnt kinds of "desires" that God has. I have heard that explanation before, but I have forgotten the details of it. That's why I asked.