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Twelve rules that are broken when people speak in tongues Part 2

electedbyHim

Elected by Him
Calvinism Overseer
6. AN INTERPRETER HAD TO BE PRESENT.

1Co 14:27c and one must interpret;

1Co 14:28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.


Not only must tongues be earthly languages, but they also must be interpreted for the benefit of all.

7. SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS TO BE CONTROLLED.

1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;


The Holy Spirit never takes anyone out of control. Not only were the prophets to judge others with discernment, but they were also to have control over themselves. God does not desire out-of-spirit or out-of-mind experiences. Those who received and proclaimed the truth were to have clear minds. There was nothing bizarre, ecstatic, trance-like, or wild about receiving and preaching God’s Word, as with demonic experiences.

8. ANY CONFUSION OR DISORDER IN THE ASSEMBLY WAS AN INDICATION OF SOMETHING THAT DID NOT ORIGINATE FROM GOD.

1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

confusion.
Here is the key to the whole chapter. The church at worship before God should reflect His character and nature because He is a God of peace and harmony, order and clarity, not strife and confusion (cf. Rom. 15:33; 2 Thess. 3:16; Heb. 13:20). as in all the churches. This phrase does not belong in v. 33, but at the beginning of v. 34, as a logical introduction to a universal principle for churches.

9. TONGUES WERE FOR MEN ONLY.

1Co 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.


The context of 1 Corinthians 14 is tongues; and, since a verse cannot be interpreted apart from its context, we come to the conclusion that the speaking in verse 34 refers to speaking in tongues. Women are not allowed to do it. The principle of women not speaking in church services is universal; this applies to all the churches, not just locally, geographically, or culturally. The context in this verse concerns prophecy, but includes the general theme of the chapter, i.e., tongues. Rather than leading, they are to be submissive as God’s Word makes clear (Gen 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:11–15). It is not coincidental that many modern churches that have tongues-speaking and claim gifts of healings and miracles also permit women to lead worship, preach, and teach. Women may be gifted teachers, but they are not permitted by God “to speak” in churches. In fact, for them to do so is “shameful,” meaning “disgraceful.” Apparently, certain women were out of order in disruptively asking questions publicly in the chaotic services.

10. TO RECOGNIZE THESE REGULATIONS AS THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD WAS IMPERATIVE.

1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.


Paul knew that the Corinthians would react to all these firm regulations that would end the free-for-all in their services. The prophets, tongues-speakers, and women may all have been resistant to words, so he anticipated that resistance by sarcastically challenging those who put themselves above his word, and thus, above Scripture by either ignoring it or interpreting it to fit their predisposed ideas. If anyone was genuinely a prophet or had the true spiritual gift of tongues, he or she would submit to the principles God had revealed through the apostle.

11. THOUGH NOT FORBIDDING TONGUES IN THE APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY, THE PREDOMINANT COMMAND WAS “COVET TO PROPHESY”

1Co 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.


Legitimate languages were limited in purpose and in duration, but as long as it was still active in the early church, it was not to be hindered. But prophecy was the most desirable gift to be exercised because of its ability to edify, exhort, and comfort with the truth (v. 3).

12. LET EVERYTHING BE DONE DECENTLY AND IN ORDER.

1Co 14:40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner



TO CLARIFY TONGUES OF ANGELS

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


Paul’s basic point in 13:1, however, is to convey the idea of being able to speak all sorts of languages with great fluency and eloquence, far above the greatest linguist or orator. That the apostle is speaking in general and hypothetical terms is clear from the expression tongues … of angels. There is no biblical teaching of a unique or special angelic language or dialect. In the countless records of their speaking to men in Scripture, they always speak in the language of the person being addressed. There is no indication that they have a heavenly language of their own that men could learn. Paul simply is saying that, were he to have the ability to speak with the skill and eloquence of the greatest men, even with angelic eloquence, he would only become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal if he did not have love. The greatest truths spoken in the greatest way fall short if they are not spoken in love. Apart from love, even one who speaks the truth with supernatural eloquence becomes so much noise.

The gift of language is especially meaningless without love. Paul chooses this as his illustration of lovelessness because it was a sought–after experience that made the people proud. One of the results of the Corinthians’ trying to use that gift in their own power and for their own selfish and proud ends was that it could not be ministered in love. Because they did not walk in the Spirit, they did not have the fruit of the Spirit and could not properly minister the gifts of the Spirit. Because the most important fruit was missing from what they thought was the most important gift, their exercising the gift became nothing more than babble.

In New Testament times, rites honoring the pagan deities Cybele, Bacchus, and Dionysus included speaking in ecstatic noises that were accompanied by smashing gongs, clanging cymbals, and blaring trumpets. Paul’s hearers clearly got his point: unless it is done in love, ministering the gift of languages, or speaking in any other human or angelic way, amounts to no more than those pagan rituals. It is only meaningless gibberish in a Christian guise.

Please share your thoughts and opinions.
 
Very good Cooper.
The rule should read:
6. AN INTERPRETER SHOULD BE PRESENT.
If an interpreter is not present, the speaker should remain silent in the meeting and go silent, and speak to God (in private?).

Anyone speaking in tongues should pray that he can interpret. That would allow, at least, him to translate his tongue message to be in the appropriate language.

1 Corinthians 14:13 kjv
13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

More later

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Very good Cooper.
The rule should read:
6. AN INTERPRETER SHOULD BE PRESENT.
If an interpreter is not present, the speaker should remain silent in the meeting and go silent, and speak to God (in private?).

Anyone speaking in tongues should pray that he can interpret. That would allow, at least, him to translate his tongue message to be in the appropriate language.

1 Corinthians 14:13 kjv
13. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

More later

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Question:

Why speak in a different language in church and need someone to interpret the foreign language, when people in the church understand the English language?

Grace and peace to you.
 
Question:

Why speak in a different language in church and need someone to interpret the foreign language, when people in the church understand the English language?

Grace and peace to you.
Ah but, I have heard interpretations that were prophetic, about which the original speaker could not have known anything about.
.
 
Care to share the prophecy?
It is coming true today, and it was not good. What happened to the Israelites when they were taken into captivity will happen to us, except we will be held captive in our own land. Due solely to national unbelief and wickedness. This was with respect to Britain. I'm thinking maybe the Common Market will have a strangle hold over us.
.
 
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It is coming true today, and it was not good. What happened to the Israelites when they were taken into captivity will happen to us, except we will be held captive in our own land. Due solely to national unbelief and wickedness. This was with respect to Britain. I'm thinking maybe the Common Market will have a strangle hold over us.
.
What is true? We will be enslaved?
 
Please share your thoughts and opinions.


Do you know the difference between praying in tongues, and the gift of the Spirit speaking in tongues and interpretation?


For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 Corinthians 14:14
 
Do you know the difference between praying in tongues, and the gift of the Spirit speaking in tongues and interpretation?


For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 Corinthians 14:14
I understand what the Bible teaches.

Please tell me why these languages are beneficial.

What purpose does it serve today?

Grace and peace to you.
 
I understand what the Bible teaches.

Please tell me why these languages are beneficial.

What purpose does it serve today?

Grace and peace to you.

If you understand what the Bible teaches, then you should understand my question which comes from the scripture I provided.

Again, my question to you is —

Do you know the difference between praying in tongues, and the gift of the Spirit speaking in tongues and interpretation?


For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 Corinthians 14:14


What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 1 Corinthians 14:15



JLB
 
Please tell me why these languages are beneficial.

It’s a spiritual gift.

Praying in tongues edifies us, and builds us up on our most holy faith, as well as keeps us in the love of God.


He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 1 Corinthians 14:4


These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 19-21


  • But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit




JLB
 
I understand what the Bible teaches.

Please tell me why these languages are beneficial.

What purpose does it serve today?

Grace and peace to you.

Have you been baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence?
 
I am certain this is not you were looking for in an answer.


Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I shall pray with the spirit and I shall pray with the mind also; I shall sing with the spirit and I shall sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. (1Co_14:13-19)

In this section Paul continues to teach about counterfeit tongues, and therefore continues to speak sarcastically (cf. 1Co_4:8-10). This is indicated in the first place by the fact that he uses the singular tongue (see discussion above under 1Co_4:1-5), which refers to the false gift, except in 1Co_14:27, where the reference is to one man speaking on one occasion. In the second place, what he says here does not, for the most part, apply to the true gift of tongues. If Paul were not speaking sarcastically of counterfeited tongues he would be asking the Corinthians to seek the true gift of interpretation. But he has already made it clear that the Holy Spirit sovereignly distributes gifts “individually just as He wills” (1Co_12:11). Gifts are not to be sought by individuals, but only accepted and properly used.

Paul sarcastically reproaches carnal believers for their immaturity (cf. 1Co_12:20), saying in effect, “While you are jabbering away in your unintelligible pseudo-tongues, you could at least ask God to give you some means of making them beneficial to the church. As you now exercise them they are both pagan and pointless.”

In the pagan rites with which the Corinthians were so familiar, speaking in ecstatic utterances was considered to be communing with the gods spirit-to-spirit. The experience was intended to bypass the mind and normal understanding. As noted above, its mysteries were meant to remain mysterious. Paul here may have used pneuma (which can be translated “spirit,” “wind,” or “breath”) in the sense of breath. If so, He was saying, If I pray in a [self-manufactured] tongue, my [breath] prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

It certainly seems impossible that spirit here refers to the Holy Spirit, as some charismatics believe—His Spirit being manifested through our spirits. All Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but if Paul was speaking of the Holy Spirit in relation to my spirit, then grammatically and theologically he also was speaking of the Holy Spirit in relation to my mind. The Holy Spirit could not be praying through a person while bypassing his mind. And he certainly was not saying that the mind of the Holy Spirit sometimes can be unfruitful. The apostle has to be speaking entirely of himself, and that hypothetically. “If I, though an apostle, were to speak the gibberish that many of you speak, my mind would have no part in it. I would only be making wind, blowing air (cf. 1Co_12:9). What I would say would be as empty and mindless as the ecstasies you used to witness in your pagan temples.”

What is the outcome then ? The answer is that there is no place for mindless ecstatic prayer. Praying and singing with the spirit must be accompanied by praying and singing with the mind also. It is obvious that edification cannot exist apart from the mind. Spirituality involves more than the mind, but it never excludes the mind (cf. Rom_12:1-2; Eph_4:23; Col_3:10). In Scripture, and certainly in the writings of Paul, no premium is placed on ignorance. Quoting Deu_6:5, Jesus reinforced the Old Testament command that we should “love the Lord [our] God with all [our] hearts, and with all [our] soul, and with all [our] mind” (Mat_22:37).

Praying or singing in tongues could serve no purpose, and Paul would not do it. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? Ungifted (idiotes) is, I believe, better translated in its usual sense of ignorant, unlearned, or unskilled. A person who is ignorant of a language being spoken cannot possibly understand what he hears. In a worship service, for example, he could not know when to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks. Prayers or songs of thanks could not include anyone else if they were given in unintelligible sounds.

Amen is a Hebrew word of agreement and encouragement, meaning “So let it be,” and was commonly used by worshipers in the synagogue. The practice carried over into some early Christian churches and, in fact, is common in many churches today. A person cannot know when to “Amen,” however, if he does not know what is being said. The person speaking in a tongue may feel he is giving thanks well enough, but no one else will know what is being said. The other man is not edified, as he should be when the gift is ministered properly (1Co_14:5, 1Co_14:12).

Lest the Corinthians, after reading this, think he no longer recognized the true gift of tongues, Paul says, I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all. He made it clear that he was not condemning true tongues or enviously criticizing a gift he did not himself possess.

Here he uses the plural tongues. He is no longer speaking hypothetically (cf. 1Co_14:6, 1Co_14:11, 1Co_14:14-15), and he is no longer speaking of a counterfeited gift. Paul had had more experience than any of the Corinthians (you all) in speaking in tongues, though we have no record of a specific instance. He knew what the proper use of the true gift involved and did not involve. We can be sure that he did not use the gift in any perverted way for personal gratification. He may have used it as it was used at Pentecost, to bring a supernatural message to those God wanted to reach, and as a miraculous sign verifying the gospel and his apostolic authority. Yet he considered that gift so low in value as compared to his other gifts and ministries that in none of his writings does he mention a specific use of it by him or any other believer.

The gift of languages had a proper place for a prescribed time as a miraculous confirming sign to unbelievers, with an accompanying purpose of edification through interpretation. However, in the church, Paul continues, I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. Using the singular (tongue) again to refer to pagan gibberish, he emphasizes that an uncountable number of sounds in unintelligible tones has no place in the church and is useless. Five understandable words are far more desirable.

The apostle was not speaking of an exact mathematical ratio. Although murioi can mean ten thousand (cf. Mat_18:24), the largest number for which Greek had a specific word, it was commonly used to indicate an inestimable number. It is the term from which we get myriad, as it is sometimes translated. In the book of Revelation, for example, the term is repeated (“myriads of myriads”) and then added to “thousands of thousands” (Mat_5:11) to indicate a completely immeasurable figure.

It is in that general sense that the term is used in our text. To speak a very short sentence of five words with [his] mind, giving a message that would instruct or encourage his hearers, was more valuable to Paul than a limitless number of words in a tongue that was incomprehensible to them.

Because Paul knew that the gift of tongues would cease in a few years, he was not giving instructions for governing tongues in the church today. He was not even giving such instruction to the Corinthians, because he was speaking of counterfeit tongues, which were based in self-centered emotionalism and did not originate with the Holy Spirit. He was giving them, as well as Christians of all ages, warning against using self-serving, worldly, carnal, ineffective, and God-dishonoring substitutes for the true spiritual gifts God has ordained to be ministered in the power and in the fruit of the Spirit and for the blessing and edification of His church.
 
I do not come on the internet to be put in the dock, and I know the conversation will be unfruitful, so for the sake of my mental health, I need to say goodbye and may God bless you.
.
I do not understand what it means to be put in the dock. Conversations are only unfruitful if we let our flesh get in the way.

Thank you and the Lord is truly blessing me,
Grace and peace to you.
 
I am certain this is not you were looking for in an answer.


Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I shall pray with the spirit and I shall pray with the mind also; I shall sing with the spirit and I shall sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. (1Co_14:13-19)

In this section Paul continues to teach about counterfeit tongues, and therefore continues to speak sarcastically (cf. 1Co_4:8-10). This is indicated in the first place by the fact that he uses the singular tongue (see discussion above under 1Co_4:1-5), which refers to the false gift, except in 1Co_14:27, where the reference is to one man speaking on one occasion. In the second place, what he says here does not, for the most part, apply to the true gift of tongues. If Paul were not speaking sarcastically of counterfeited tongues he would be asking the Corinthians to seek the true gift of interpretation. But he has already made it clear that the Holy Spirit sovereignly distributes gifts “individually just as He wills” (1Co_12:11). Gifts are not to be sought by individuals, but only accepted and properly used.

Paul sarcastically reproaches carnal believers for their immaturity (cf. 1Co_12:20), saying in effect, “While you are jabbering away in your unintelligible pseudo-tongues, you could at least ask God to give you some means of making them beneficial to the church. As you now exercise them they are both pagan and pointless.”

In the pagan rites with which the Corinthians were so familiar, speaking in ecstatic utterances was considered to be communing with the gods spirit-to-spirit. The experience was intended to bypass the mind and normal understanding. As noted above, its mysteries were meant to remain mysterious. Paul here may have used pneuma (which can be translated “spirit,” “wind,” or “breath”) in the sense of breath. If so, He was saying, If I pray in a [self-manufactured] tongue, my [breath] prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

It certainly seems impossible that spirit here refers to the Holy Spirit, as some charismatics believe—His Spirit being manifested through our spirits. All Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but if Paul was speaking of the Holy Spirit in relation to my spirit, then grammatically and theologically he also was speaking of the Holy Spirit in relation to my mind. The Holy Spirit could not be praying through a person while bypassing his mind. And he certainly was not saying that the mind of the Holy Spirit sometimes can be unfruitful. The apostle has to be speaking entirely of himself, and that hypothetically. “If I, though an apostle, were to speak the gibberish that many of you speak, my mind would have no part in it. I would only be making wind, blowing air (cf. 1Co_12:9). What I would say would be as empty and mindless as the ecstasies you used to witness in your pagan temples.”

What is the outcome then ? The answer is that there is no place for mindless ecstatic prayer. Praying and singing with the spirit must be accompanied by praying and singing with the mind also. It is obvious that edification cannot exist apart from the mind. Spirituality involves more than the mind, but it never excludes the mind (cf. Rom_12:1-2; Eph_4:23; Col_3:10). In Scripture, and certainly in the writings of Paul, no premium is placed on ignorance. Quoting Deu_6:5, Jesus reinforced the Old Testament command that we should “love the Lord [our] God with all [our] hearts, and with all [our] soul, and with all [our] mind” (Mat_22:37).

Praying or singing in tongues could serve no purpose, and Paul would not do it. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? Ungifted (idiotes) is, I believe, better translated in its usual sense of ignorant, unlearned, or unskilled. A person who is ignorant of a language being spoken cannot possibly understand what he hears. In a worship service, for example, he could not know when to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks. Prayers or songs of thanks could not include anyone else if they were given in unintelligible sounds.

Amen is a Hebrew word of agreement and encouragement, meaning “So let it be,” and was commonly used by worshipers in the synagogue. The practice carried over into some early Christian churches and, in fact, is common in many churches today. A person cannot know when to “Amen,” however, if he does not know what is being said. The person speaking in a tongue may feel he is giving thanks well enough, but no one else will know what is being said. The other man is not edified, as he should be when the gift is ministered properly (1Co_14:5, 1Co_14:12).

Lest the Corinthians, after reading this, think he no longer recognized the true gift of tongues, Paul says, I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all. He made it clear that he was not condemning true tongues or enviously criticizing a gift he did not himself possess.

Here he uses the plural tongues. He is no longer speaking hypothetically (cf. 1Co_14:6, 1Co_14:11, 1Co_14:14-15), and he is no longer speaking of a counterfeited gift. Paul had had more experience than any of the Corinthians (you all) in speaking in tongues, though we have no record of a specific instance. He knew what the proper use of the true gift involved and did not involve. We can be sure that he did not use the gift in any perverted way for personal gratification. He may have used it as it was used at Pentecost, to bring a supernatural message to those God wanted to reach, and as a miraculous sign verifying the gospel and his apostolic authority. Yet he considered that gift so low in value as compared to his other gifts and ministries that in none of his writings does he mention a specific use of it by him or any other believer.

The gift of languages had a proper place for a prescribed time as a miraculous confirming sign to unbelievers, with an accompanying purpose of edification through interpretation. However, in the church, Paul continues, I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. Using the singular (tongue) again to refer to pagan gibberish, he emphasizes that an uncountable number of sounds in unintelligible tones has no place in the church and is useless. Five understandable words are far more desirable.

The apostle was not speaking of an exact mathematical ratio. Although murioi can mean ten thousand (cf. Mat_18:24), the largest number for which Greek had a specific word, it was commonly used to indicate an inestimable number. It is the term from which we get myriad, as it is sometimes translated. In the book of Revelation, for example, the term is repeated (“myriads of myriads”) and then added to “thousands of thousands” (Mat_5:11) to indicate a completely immeasurable figure.

It is in that general sense that the term is used in our text. To speak a very short sentence of five words with [his] mind, giving a message that would instruct or encourage his hearers, was more valuable to Paul than a limitless number of words in a tongue that was incomprehensible to them.

Because Paul knew that the gift of tongues would cease in a few years, he was not giving instructions for governing tongues in the church today. He was not even giving such instruction to the Corinthians, because he was speaking of counterfeit tongues, which were based in self-centered emotionalism and did not originate with the Holy Spirit. He was giving them, as well as Christians of all ages, warning against using self-serving, worldly, carnal, ineffective, and God-dishonoring substitutes for the true spiritual gifts God has ordained to be ministered in the power and in the fruit of the Spirit and for the blessing and edification of His church.
electedbyhim , you may want to go back and look at your verse links , I see lots of problems .
 
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