Unconditional Election

[Whatever]

Believe (obey) is what we must choose to do or not do.
God does not do the believing (obeying) for us.

But God must energize our wills to do that obeying. He doesn't do that to carnal minds.

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

works = energeō - to be active, efficient: - do, (be) effectual (fervent), be mighty in, shew forth self, work (effectually in).

to will = thelō ethelō - to determine, choose or prefer, be inclined to

to do = energeō - to be active, efficient: - do, (be) effectual (fervent), be mighty in, shew forth self, work (effectually in).

2 Chronicles 30:12 Also the hand of God was on Judah to give them singleness of heart to obey the command of the king and the leaders, at the word of the LORD.

Psalm 119:35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments, For I delight in it. 36 Incline my heart to Your testimonies, And not to covetousness.

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

 

[JLB]

But God must energize our wills to do that obeying. He doesn't do that to carnal minds.

Yes. That’s what grace is.

The God given ability to do what we can not do on our own.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

Grace is Someone.

Truth is Someone.

Wisdom is Someone.

 

[Whatever]

Yes. That’s what grace is.
The God given ability to do what we can not do on our own.

Yes, like accept the gospel!

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Can't do any better than Calvin here:
Paul here tacitly imputes it to the pride of the flesh, that mankind dare to condemn as foolish what they do not comprehend, he at the same time shows how great is the weakness or rather bluntness of the human understanding, when he declares it to be incapable of spiritual apprehension. For he teaches, that it is not owing simply to the obstinacy of the human will, but to the impotency, also, of the understanding, that man does not attain to the things of the Spirit. Had he said that men are not willing to be wise, that indeed would have been true, but he states farther that they are not able. Hence we infer, that faith is not in one's own power, but is divinely conferred.

Because they are spiritually discerned That is, the Spirit of God, from whom the doctrine of the gospel comes, is its only true interpreter, to open it up to us. Hence in judging of it, men's minds must of necessity be in blindness until they are enlightened by the Spirit of God. [133] Hence infer, that all mankind are by nature destitute of the Spirit of God: otherwise the argument would be inconclusive. It is from the Spirit of God, it is true, that we have that feeble spark of reason which we all enjoy; but at present we are speaking of that special discovery of heavenly wisdom which God vouchsafes to his sons alone. Hence the more insufferable the ignorance of those who imagine that the gospel is offered to mankind in common in such a way that all indiscriminately are free to embrace salvation by faith.

 

[JLB]

Yes, like accept the gospel!

Yes. But the word is repent.

No one can obey the Gospel without grace; without the Holy Spirit.


Nevertheless it’s by hearing and obeying the gospel a person is saved.

 

[Whatever]

Nevertheless it’s by hearing and obeying the gospel a person is saved.

Yes it is by hearing (or maybe reading) the gospel and not by works of righteousness which we have done (like believing and obeying), but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, and gave us the spirituality to understand and accept the things of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things . . .

Judges = anakrinō - properly to scrutinize, that is, (by implication) investigate, interrogate, determine: - ask, question, discern, examine, judge, search

On the other hand

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

discerned = anakrinō - properly to scrutinize, that is, (by implication) investigate, interrogate, determine: - ask, question, discern, examine, judge, search

Any person hearing the gospel before the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That is as plain as day to people who will put away their preconceived ideas and just accept what the Bible plainly says.

 

[JLB]

Yes it is by hearing (or maybe reading) the gospel and not by works of righteousness which we have done (like believing and obeying), but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, and gave us the spirituality to understand and accept the things of the Holy Spirit.

Only those who hear and obey the Gospel are saved.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

 

[Whatever]

Only those who hear and obey the Gospel are saved.

I know. I know. But only those who are washed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit obey the gospel.

 

[JLB]

I know. I know. But only those who are washed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit obey the gospel.

Great. Please show us the scripture that says "those who are washed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit obey the gospel"

The Spirit is present enabling and empowering those who hear the Gospel to obey. That is what grace is, the Holy Spirit.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. No one is saved apart from hearing and obeying the Gospel.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23

 

[Whatever]

Please show us the scripture that says

That is always your answer. If it isn't there in black and white literal words, you won't accept it, unless it is one of your pet beliefs like "people have free will to obey the gospel."

 

[JLB]

That is always your answer. If it isn't there in black and white literal words, you won't accept it, unless it is one of your pet beliefs like "people have free will to obey the gospel."

I would like to see some scripture where you get the idea, people are saved, justified, sanctified who have never heard or believed the Gospel.

I don't see where that is referred to in scripture.

 

[electedbyHim]

That is always your answer. If it isn't there in black and white literal words, you won't accept it, unless it is one of your pet beliefs like "people have free will to obey the gospel."

"people have free will to obey the gospel."

That is not Biblical and not in the Bible.

 

[electedbyHim]

I would like to see some scripture where you get the idea, people are saved, justified, sanctified who have never heard or believed the Gospel.

I don't see where that is referred to in scripture.

Do a study on election predestination and providence.

 

[JLB]

Do a study on election predestination and providence.

Please provide the scripture you are referring to on providence.

I will read it and study the context.


Thanks

 

[electedbyHim]

Please provide the scripture you are referring to on providence.

I will read it and study the context.


Thanks

You do not believe God is providential?

For someone who claims to know Scripture, thats really sad.

You truly do not understand.

Hope you do not sit under Pastors/teachers, because they are commentators, if you do that would make you a hypocrite.

I find it interesting that you do not do any resources outside the Bible, but you comment on the Bible daily and post videos and you have no issues doing that.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I made a statement concerning whosoever...

Here it is again -

Those who teach and promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Do you agree, that Those who teach and promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God... based on the scripture I gave?

Do you think that Calvinism is a heresy? Yes or no. If so, do you believe in the Trinity, the divine and human natures of Jesus, God's creation of the universe and humans, humans' fall into sin, the Bible as the Word of God, the virgin birth of Jesus, his full deity and full humanity, his substitutionary atonement for believers with his death, and his bodily resurrection for believers' new life to live for God's glory? If you do, Calvinists do too. What is the Calvinists' heresy? Or is it a different emphasis on certain parts of the Bible that you don't emphasize? If so, then, it's definitely not a heresy.

 

[electedbyHim]

I made a statement concerning whosoever...

Here it is again -

Those who teach and promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Do you agree, that Those who teach and promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God... based on the scripture I gave?

What does that have to do with whosoever?

 

[Whatever]

Please provide the scripture you are referring to on providence.

Read the whole story of Joseph and his brothers. Starting around Genesis 37 and going through Genesis 50. If you don't see God's providence in there, then you are too dense.
Providence generally refers to divine guidance or care, often associated with the belief that God oversees and directs human affairs.
Gen 37:18 They saw him (Joseph) from afar, and before he came near to them they conspired against him to kill him.
Gen 37:20 Come now, let us kill him and throw him into one of the pits.
Gen 37:21 But when Reuben heard it, he rescued him out of their hands (God's providence)
Gen 37:25 Then they sat down to eat. And looking up they saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead, with their camels bearing gum, balm, and myrrh, on their way to carry it down to Egypt.
This is God's providence that these guys came by at just that time.
Gen 37:27 Come, let us sell him to the Ishmaelites,
Gen 37:36 Meanwhile the Midianites had sold him in Egypt to Potiphar
Gen 39:2 The LORD was with Joseph, and he became a successful man, and he was in the house of his Egyptian master.

I won't go on with Potiphar's wife accusing Joseph of rape and his being thrown in prison where it just competently happened by chance that Pharaoh's cupbearer and baker had these weird dreams. Then Joseph completely by chance had the ability to interpret them. And one of the interpretations was that Egypt was going to have 7 good years and then 7 years of famine. Then it happened just by complete chance that Pharaoh made Joseph in charge of fixing everything. Then it was a complete chance that Josephs brothers came to Egypt needing to get food.
Then finally Joseph reveals himself to his brothers and says:
Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Then of course Joseph dies and a new Pharaoh comes in who didn't like the Jews and they were enslaved.
And this fulfills a prophecy made about them before they even existed:

Gen 15:13 Then the LORD said to Abram, “Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years.

Then prophesying the Exodus, God says:

Gen 15:14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.

Just providence after providence.

 

[Whatever]

I would like to see some scripture where you get the idea, people are saved, justified, sanctified who have never heard or believed the Gospel.

I've never said that. When people hear the gospel by God's providence, then the Holy Spirit opens their hearts and illumines their minds to savingly accept the gospel.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him

The word draw there is helko (G1670) is translated "dragged" in Act_21:30 and "drag" in Jas_2:6

Acts 21:30 And all the city was disturbed; and the people ran together, seized Paul, and dragged him out of the temple; and immediately the doors were shut.
James 2:6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?

This is what the Holy Spirit does as I said above. And it doesn't happen to everybody. Only those the Father has given to Jesus.

John 17:2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

Let's summarize it.
1. Nobody can come to God unless the Father draws them.
2. The Father does this through the sanctifying regenerating work of the Holy Spirit when a person hears the gospel.
3. Only those given to Jesus have this done for them.
4. If Joe Blow was given to Jesus, God will somehow providentially make sure Joe Blow hears (or reads) the Gospel.
5. Cannibals in the Amazon Jungle who never heard the gospel, were never given to Jesus. (I would guess they are the Tares sowed by the devil.)

 

[JLB]

You do not believe God is providential?

Please provide the scripture you are referring to so I can see what you mean.

 

[JLB]

For someone who claims to know Scripture, thats really sad.

Please show me the post where I claimed to know scripture.

Your insults are noted.