Understanding The Law Of Moses - With The Help Of The Prophets And The Apostles

[eddif]

Me too. So were the Apostles. They we're walking around with him learning and still had to ask if he wanted them to barbecue people. They needed to learn not to comdemn people who hated them. If God didn't come to kill his enemies, who are we (his former enemies) to think we have a right to?

For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Rom.15:3

I not either but a Jewish lover of Jesus schooled me. If we want to properly understand the law, we meed to point it at ourselves not others.

Someone who understands that the ordinances (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Col.2:21) were figures of what not to take into our hearts. Those who opposed the Messiah made a show of obeying fleshly laws, but they weren't i their hearts, which the figures sumbolized.

for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Mt.23:23

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Rom.2:25

Paul never said we don't have to keep the law. He meant carnal laws God symbolizing holiness are useless unless we take them to heart. For instance, Abraham was circumcised outwardly as a sugn if his faith.
Bread and wine the same only worse, because they represent the tormented mangled body and spilled blood of our Lord told them to drink it because they would suffer as he did,

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1Cor.11:29


Well, I learned a lot from that soul I mentioned. There are many symbols and I know many, but far from all. If you have anything specific I might be able to help.

If you understand that Jesus wasn't our substitute, but Gods' "substitute", you'll understand the law says "Jesus bearing our sins" mesns he "put up with a lot of crud from us." Like his Father does every day in Spirit. The Son did so in flesh.

WOW
You be done good with this post.

eddif

 

[eddif]

So if anyone is just normally an active current 20 post reader (and not a go back 20 posts re-reader), go back to post 239 by journeyman .
The presentation is very good.

Notice how he received the information. His source was from a Jew. Sounds like a true inward Jew.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

 

[eddif]

Now I hope wondering answers.

The ten commandments:
Exodus 20

1. You shall have no
2. Thou shall not
3. Thou shall not
4. Thou shall not
5. Thou shall not
6. ? Proverbs 30:17 ?
7. Thou shall not
8.Thou shall not
9. Thou shall not
10. Thou shall not

Consider

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

All our heads swim from time to time.

In a sense I am way beyond who I am on this thread.

Be thinking about the 10 Commandments. I hope to discuss them along with and inside the Law. The scary thing is I am no expert here.

Commandments contained in ordinances? Who talks about that? Hopefully a few more people have some insight. All I see now is the ordinance about the ox treading out the corn is not totally about the ox. It is about the preacher workman getting pay if they do. a good job ( if the congregation has funds).

Mississippi redneck
eddif

wondering I think it was you I rember mentioning the Ten Commandments. Could you explain why they fit in the law an are still are for today. Not a trick question but we all need to go there in this thread.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

The Ten Commandments.
They will ALWAYS fit into the Law.
They will ALWAYS be for TODAY.
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
God is holy and those that want to walk with God must also be holy.
What does holy mean?
To be set aside to do God's work.
So what is God's work?
I think it's anything that helps to grow God's Kingdom here on earth
OR anything that we do in His name to further the good of mankind.

May Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven...
What is God's will?
In order to know it we have to know the 10 commandments and keep them to
the best of our ability.

Jesus made it easy and summed them up in 2 commandments:
Love God
Love your neighbor as yourself.

That does not negate the 10 commandments but reinforces them.

Let's see what you think about this.

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Timothy 1:8 kjv
8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

I knew this was a needed subject to discuss. I know it is a subject that we all think we know the answer.

The passage above is IMHO correct.

We just need the rules that go with using the law.

I am open to see if we can get a peaceful list of laws. Not carved in stone laws we throw at each other, but laws written in our new heart of flesh.

Be nice folks.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

You're not going to get a peaceful list of laws Ediff.
Jesus summed up the ONLY Law that we are to follow to this day...
the Moral Law. The 10 Commandments.
This has been summed up by Jesus into 2 commandments. we call them
the commandments of love.
If we follow love for God and man, we will automatically keep the commandments.

But we still need to know what they are:
The decalogue tells us this.
We need both the rules and love for ourselves and others.

Once we are firmly implanted in love, then rules become unnecessary because they're
implanted in our heart. Ezekiel 36. God writes the rules on our heart.

And so, God's children need to know the rules, but they are written for those that transgress the law.
And what difference will it make if the transgressors do not follow God in their life.
None.

 

[eddif]

You're not going to get a peaceful list of laws Ediff.
Jesus summed up the ONLY Law that we are to follow to this day...
the Moral Law. The 10 Commandments.
This has been summed up by Jesus into 2 commandments. we call them
the commandments of love.
If we follow love for God and man, we will automatically keep the commandments.

But we still need to know what they are:
The decalogue tells us this.
We need both the rules and love for ourselves and others.

Once we are firmly implanted in love, then rules become unnecessary because they're
implanted in our heart. Ezekiel 36. God writes the rules on our heart.

And so, God's children need to know the rules, but they are written for those that transgress the law.
And what difference will it make if the transgressors do not follow God in their life.
None.

The 10 commandments of the law of Moses are on stone. They point out what is not to be done.
Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. They fit the people of Israel in the wilderness.

Today they fit all the rebellious people who have not come to repentance and salvation I in Jesus Christ.

We do not meditate on the past, but look forward to the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus.

If we understand the laws of how to use the law, we do not meditate on the law of Moses. Understand it’s use? Yes. But, we look forward, and not backward.

Ok we have wondering and a small part of. eddif.


The law is for the bad guys (redneck theology).

I could do some the Timothy laws. But I really believe there are others that can and need to get deeply involved.

Great commission, or the redneck meaning:
Repentance: you have got to get people lost so they need a savior. The law is part of repentance. Ask Paul.

Belief in Jesus. Here is the Gospel the answer.

The law brings death of self, but the Gospel brings life through Christ Jesus.

Then how do we get others saved? Jesus sees to the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the chance to understand the Law if Moses.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

The 10 commandments of the law of Moses are on stone. They point out what is not to be done.
Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. They fit the people of Israel in the wilderness.

Today they fit all the rebellious people who have not come to repentance and salvation I in Jesus Christ.

We do not meditate on the past, but look forward to the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus.

If we understand the laws of how to use the law, we do not meditate on the law of Moses. Understand it’s use? Yes. But, we look forward, and not backward.

Ok we have wondering and a small part of. eddif.


The law is for the bad guys (redneck theology).

I could do some the Timothy laws. But I really believe there are others that can and need to get deeply involved.

Great commission, or the redneck meaning:
Repentance: you have got to get people lost so they need a savior. The law is part of repentance. Ask Paul.

Belief in Jesus. Here is the Gospel the answer.

The law brings death of self, but the Gospel brings life through Christ Jesus.

Then how do we get others saved? Jesus sees to the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the chance to understand the Law if Moses.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Laws are for finding criminals.
OK
The law abiding should not fear the law.
BUT the law abiding must also respect the law.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now I hope wondering answers.

The ten commandments:
Exodus 20

1. You shall have no
2. Thou shall not
3. Thou shall not
4. Thou shall not
5. Thou shall not
6. ? Proverbs 30:17 ?
7. Thou shall not
8.Thou shall not
9. Thou shall not
10. Thou shall not

Consider

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I answered.

 

[eddif]

Laws are for finding criminals.
OK
The law abiding should not fear the law.
BUT the law abiding must also respect the law.

Well yes. Our laws are founded on Jewish law and Christian principles (more or less).

Galatians 2:19 kjv
19. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Romans 7.8 kjv
8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The law is also for the lawless to find salvation. They discover their sin through the law.

We are dead to the law after we are saved. What about before we are saved?

Romans 7:6 kjv
6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not inthe oldness of the letter.

The dying to self seems tied to the law.

Other posters.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering hawkman Hidden In Him
Others

eddif Post 220 is the Timothy passage to develop laws to help the Law of Moses and the 10 commandments fitting into today.
And, I mean using the law lawfully.

Am I being vague? Yes. Am I doing it on purpose? Yes. Will I finally talk if these hints do not work? Yes absolutely.

If I just start as an eddif reality it may stall.

If we all can struggle through using the law lawfully (including the 10 commandments) I think it will work.

Threads often just give up. I am holding for some insight helped by all of us.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

i want to dodge that question.

I am asking no one to be circumcised, and I am asking no one to follow the law of Moses today. Some will think that I am.

IMHO in a redneck way I can answer your question with yes.

If you're not asking anyone not to be circumcised and not to follow the LAW OF MOSES,
then that means you understand the different Law system of the OT.
Then why are the 10 commandments a problem?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well yes. Our laws are founded on Jewish law and Christian principles (more or less).

Galatians 2:19 kjv
19. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Romans 7.8 kjv
8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The law is also for the lawless to find salvation. They discover their sin through the law.

We are dead to the law after we are saved. What about before we are saved?

Before you were saved nothing mattered.
How could a person be more lost than lost?

The commandments are not for the unsaved.
The commandments are for the saved.
To know what not to do and to know what to do.
The saved transfer these laws from the tablet of stone to the fleshy heart.

Romans 7:6 kjv
6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not inthe oldness of the letter.

The dying to self seems tied to the law.

Other posters.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

To serve in the newness of spirit.....

And how did man serve BEFORE?

Basically a big question here is this:

WERE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED BY JESUS?
AND IF NOT
THEN WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MOSAIC COVENANT AND THE NEW COVENANT?

 

[GodsGrace]

The 10 commandments of the law of Moses are on stone. They point out what is not to be done.

They also point out what there IS to do.
The first 4 are about God.
They tell us what to do.
Honor God, keep the Sabbath, etc.
The rest are for other persons and how we relate to thm.
These are understood to be the NOTs.

Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. They fit the people of Israel in the wilderness.

The commandments, ordinances, and all other laws were given to the people in the wilderness because they had been in slavery for about 400 years and had forgotten how to be a civilized people/community.

Of course, until there is the law, you cannot break a law...
so the Law was created to keep the Israelis obedient to the laws of God, which were here even in Noah's time.
Man always had the law in his heart.
Romans 2:14-15
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,,,

Today they fit all the rebellious people who have not come to repentance and salvation I in Jesus Christ.

Today the commandments fit everyone, even the saved must follow the commandments.

We do not meditate on the past, but look forward to the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus.

If we understand the laws of how to use the law, we do not meditate on the law of Moses. Understand it’s use? Yes. But, we look forward, and not backward.

Ok we have wondering and a small part of. eddif.

And here is when it's good to know the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant.
Is there a difference?

The law is for the bad guys (redneck theology).

I could do some the Timothy laws. But I really believe there are others that can and need to get deeply involved.

Great commission, or the redneck meaning:
Repentance: you have got to get people lost so they need a savior. The law is part of repentance. Ask Paul.

Belief in Jesus. Here is the Gospel the answer.

The law brings death of self, but the Gospel brings life through Christ Jesus.

HOW does Jesus bring this life you speak of if we still must follow the commandments?
Again, the difference between the old and new covenant.

Then how do we get others saved? Jesus sees to the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the chance to understand the Law if Moses.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

And there you have it.
All depends on the spirit!

 

[GodsGrace]

It's clear if you believe
It is not easy for everyone to accept that keeping the commandments of the law does not bring praise before God.
Romans 4:2
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God."

Just ran across this LB
Do you mean that keeping THE LAW does not please God
or do you mean that keeping THE COMMANDMENTS does not please God?

 

[eddif]

then that means you understand the different Law system of the OT.
Then why are the 10 commandments a problem?

The 10 commandments apply to those who are walking in sin. Both then and now.

The idea is to walk in the new creation.



eddif

 

[eddif]

They also point out what there IS to do.
The first 4 are about God.
They tell us what to do.
Honor God, keep the Sabbath, etc.
The rest are for other persons and how we relate to thm.
These are understood to be the NOTs.

The first 4 are what not to do
5 is positive and negative and the sabbath day changed.

6. Is stated in the law of Moses as positive, but in the scripture reference the information is negative. If our parents are good follow them.
The last 4 Are negative (not to do)

If you are walking in the spirit we are led in the path of righteousness. We may not say we never sin, but we seek the path. The rod and staff comfort us.

What are you saying about the law?


Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

The 10 commandments apply to those who are walking in sin. Both then and now.

The idea is to walk in the new creation.



eddif

The 10 commandments apply to everyone that is saved.

It's incredible to me that this conversation is even necessary.

Be not only hearers of the word
But doers of the word

Not those who cry LORD, LORD are going to heaven, but those that do the will of My father.


Does that sound like we don't need the commandments anymore?

 

[eddif]

They also point out what there IS to do.
The first 4 are about God.
They tell us what to do.
Honor God, keep the Sabbath, etc.
The rest are for other persons and how we relate to thm.
These are understood to be the NOTs.

Exodus 20:8 kjv
8. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And Jesus worked and we enter into his rest.

There are positive statements about the sabbath. There are negative statements about the sabbath.

Jesus healed on the sabbath. That is why (IMHO) that it goes both ways. There are other statements about the sabbath an personal belief issues.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

1 Timothy 1:8 kjv
8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

This is a NT statement about the law, and not destroy it.

Jesus came to fulfill the law.

As far as I know. I have not tried to place any Christian under the law of Moses.

He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure. This is done in love without a bag of stones.

Matthew 5:18 kjv
18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The last trump is when everything is finished. (Earth passed away).

Seems there is an end coming. And that can be another discussion.

Till that time the law is to be used lawfully.


Comments by others. I know I see through a glass darkly.
Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

The 10 commandments apply to everyone that is saved.

1 Timothy 1:8 kjv
8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners

The law is for sinners vs the law is for the saved?

eddif

 

[hawkman]

I am open to see if we can get a peaceful list of laws. Not carved in stone laws we throw at each other, but laws written in our new heart of flesh.

Ed , let me see what I can say to help further this thread . These verses below in Matthew 22 are as close as we get to a peaceful set of laws .
Matthew 22

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Yes , the laws are wrote on our hearts and and inward parts too ! Jeremiah Chapter 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Christianity is not a keeping of the law, but of loving the Lawgiver. Hebrews says it best.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.