Understanding The Law Of Moses - With The Help Of The Prophets And The Apostles

[light breeze]

Again I will say, Romans 7:12 (which Paul wrote, so is Paul contradicting himself?)

Have you not read Romans 7:13, or are you deliberately pretending that you have not read this verse? Everything is explained very clearly.
"Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful."

 

[Rookie]

"and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Again out of context. You don't develop a theory with Scripture you stick with Scripture. Paul was addressing those who may have been wavering over to Pharisee behavior. In the Gospels, the Pharisees were strict to the law, but lacked basic compassion & mercy, on the outside they were flawless, but on the inside they were tombs of the dead (Matthew 23:27). In the end, the Pharisees were so strict to the law they ended up being blind to the fact that that wasn't the real intent of the law, for salvation. And the Pharisees didn't even follow the law, they still cheated, lied, were murderous and did evil when they thought no one was watching. They used the law as a weapon against others without applying it to themselves. After Jesus some Jews started teaching that YOU need to intently try YOUR best to follow the law.

Paul was saying that it's not by YOUR strength you obey Christ, but by Christ TRANSFORMING YOU to do whats right BY NATURE. Like we default to sin, Christ defaults us to do what's right. But it's not a magical wave of a wand, it comes by Christ,who is operating on us on the surgery table, all we have to do is resist trying to escape the procedure..

I am not ignoring. I'm just not very fluent in English

You're English literacy has little to do with addressing my comments, but nevertheless....

 

[Rookie]

Have you not read Romans 7:13, or are you deliberately pretending that you have not read this verse? Everything is explained very clearly.
"Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful."

Have you not read the rest of the chapter, including verse right after that, or are you deliberately trying to put things out of context?

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[eddif]

Growing in grace we come to know Him, whom we no longer know in the flesh.
Phillipians
"and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
that I may KNOW Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death"

I am not ignoring. I'm just not very fluent in English

You are fluent enough.

I kind of love. Saul on the way to punish Christians.
Bam suddenly blind
Saul praying
Ananias came to heal and Baptize

He started growing up in a hurry. What 9?years we know he was growing?

We all may have a different story.

eddif

 

[light breeze]

Again out of context. You don't develop a theory with Scripture you stick with Scripture. Paul was addressing those who may have been wavering over to Pharisee behavior. In the Gospels, the Pharisees were strict to the law, but lacked basic compassion & mercy, on the outside they were flawless, but on the inside they were tombs of the dead (Matthew 23:27). In the end, the Pharisees were so strict to the law they ended up being blind to the fact that that wasn't the real intent of the law, for salvation. And the Pharisees didn't even follow the law, they still cheated, lied, were murderous and did evil when they thought no one was watching. They used the law as a weapon against others without applying it to themselves. After Jesus some Jews started teaching that YOU need to intently try YOUR best to follow the law.

Paul was saying that it's not by YOUR strength you obey Christ, but by Christ TRANSFORMING YOU to do whats right BY NATURE. Like we default to sin, Christ defaults us to do what's right. But it's not a magical wave of a wand, it comes by Christ,who is operating on us on the surgery table, all we have to do is resist trying to escape the procedure..

You're English literacy has little to do with addressing my comments, but nevertheless....

Your answer resembles a fable. I give you specific words from Corinthians 15; 56 where showed where it is specifically written that the power of sin is law. I prefer to believe what is written, rather than your fantasies, which are the result of unbelief. There is another place that says the same thing, but in a different way.
Romans 6
"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

 

[Rookie]

Your answer resembles a fable. I give you specific words from Corinthians 15; 56 where showed where it is specifically written that the power of sin is law. I prefer to believe what is written, rather than your fantasies, which are the result of unbelief. There is another place that says the same thing, but in a different way.

Your heresy has no end does it? How about you reply to my comment on Romans 7:12-25. I prefer to believe Scripture than your out-of-context twisting of it to fit you causing discord among believers.

Which is an act of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).

Repent.

This thread is not meant to be a battle field.

Welp, looks like someone still fired the cannon and still poured in soldiers.

 

[Rookie]

Don't zigzag. You are trying to manipulate. Are you Jewish?

Avoiding the question I see, and last time I checked Jewish people don't use the New Testament. There's that pride at work, since you know your doctrine of heresy is exposed you have nothing but to resort to frivolous and random talk.

I will ask you again, Have you not read the rest of the entire chapter, or are you deliberately trying to put things out of context?

Romans 7:14-25
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS EACH OTHER PERSONALLY.

ADDRESS THE TOPIC, NOT THE PERSON.

THANKS.

 

[light breeze]

PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS EACH OTHER PERSONALLY.

ADDRESS THE TOPIC, NOT THE PERSON.

THANKS.

But the topic is not intended for manipulation and deliberate spreading of lies, right?

 

[GodsGrace]

But the topic is not intended for manipulation and deliberate spreading of lies, right?

Please follow directions.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD.
USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.
THANKS

 

[eddif]

This is not aimed at an individual y’all are going too fast for me to keep up.

Concept is a broad statement that can cover a a huge number of context areas.

This whole thread is about taking major concepts and looking for those concepts in a huge number of context areas.

The ox pay (feed) the ox) Deuteronomy
Pay the preacher Timothy
Pay the plowman 1 Corinthians

Yes context exists
But IMHO so does concept (commandments contained in ordinances)

The law is a schoolmaster. This homework is rough. Is the textbook sufficient? Part of the textbook is in code. Sorry about that.
The seed is the - Word of God
Concept (there are parallels)
Context 1 plant biology?
Context 2 things of God (clearly seen?)

Isaiah 6 says (use parables) because of the bad nature of man.

Jesus taught in parables. We are all part of the body in Christ. Jew, gentile, male, female, bond, free….

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[light breeze]

Romans 7:14-25
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

These verses confirm the correctness of Corinthians 15:56. You just have to believe what is written.

 

[eddif]

PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS EACH OTHER PERSONALLY.

ADDRESS THE TOPIC, NOT THE PERSON.

THANKS.

Be aware

This is a volatile subject.

The Jerusalem council let Paul go to the gentiles and others to the Jews.

If the friction continues we will be moved to the safe zone.

This is an important subject for weak and strong alike.

If some of you want to battle flesh and blood , I highly doubt my getting upset would help.

For the sake of those who could actually want to discuss this with moderators and administration helping. Please cease the bashing.

I understand I can be at fault. I tend to push the edge. But there is an edge.

Job 38:11 kjv
11. And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

This is in code. God stopped Satan from taking Job’s life.

This web site has a limit on name calling.

eddif

 

[Rookie]

These verses confirm the correctness of Corinthians 15:56. You just have to believe what is written.

There is no point in continuing to converse, your understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:56 is out of context, read the whole chapter to understand.

Even looking at the original language it refutes what you think that verse means.

Here's a helpful commentary on that:

"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin (that is, what makes sin sting at death) is the law of God, which dooms the dying sinner to eternal punishment."
https://heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi handle=hein.journals/dlr33&section=24#:~:text=an%20 interpolation%2 C%20thus%3A-,%22The%20sting%20of%20death%20is%20sin%2C%20and%20the%20strength%20of,dying%20sinner%20to%20eternal%20punishment.%22

That doesn't mean the law is sinful, it means it's existence dooms the unrepentant sinner to death, but as Christ followers, we are immune to that condemnation because of the blood.

Repent of the heretical theology of trying to disrespect God's law.

 

[eddif]

But the topic is not intended for manipulation and deliberate spreading of lies, right?

Regretfully rhe last trump has not sounded yet..

What I mean by that statement.

The last trump is when we receive our final transformation.

1 Corinthians 15:52 kjv
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Does sin have dominion over us? No.
Do we sin at times ? Yes. Should our sin grieve us? Yes.

What am I trying to say. We are not perfect quite yet. Are we better (humanly speaking)? Yes.

I came here and thought I was defending the faith. What I sort of found out was (I was arguing). Am I perfect yet? No.

Can there be right and wrong? Yes. Is there a time just to shut up? Yes. One treason is just to stop divisions among us.

I am not hopefully lukewarm. I hope I have passion about truth. The letters to the seven churches state facts. We pray for eyes of understanding be enlightened.

This is about where I just groan and have no words.

eddif

 

[hawkman]

I don't know what the PaRDeS is.

It is a way of studying the Torah , but the way I see you could use it on the NT too . wondering you are already using some levels of PaRDeS like I was not knowing that is what it is called .

The Five Levels of Interpretation

 

[eddif]

It is a way of studying the Torah , but the way I see you could use it on the NT too . wondering you are already using some levels of PaRDeS like I was not knowing that is what it is called .

The Five Levels of Interpretation

Sounds like my experience. I met a Methodist preacher that had a Jewish background (mother?). We had some conversations and I was doing my version of levels. He was baffled and did some research. He told me later I was doing PaRDeS. I looked it up but never studied it.
He was a Methodist and not interested in discussing it.

PaRDeS has 4 levels. Your link says 5.

IMHO opinion it does not matter. There are levels in the NT.

We could argue about it and get nowhere.

So it is with the Law of Moses. The Jerusalem counsel split their efforts yet understood the issues.

I probably come close to 3 levels:
Repentance
Salvation
Empowerment to witness.


Then there would be subset divisions. LOL

We sure do not need another group.

Teaching them all things. That list is pretty long.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you ever wondered what it means "the strength of sin is the law" ? (Corinthians 15; 56)

Hi Light Breeze
I'd say that the law give sin its power.
Sin brought us to death.
Paul is saying that we were afraid of death, this fear is the sting.

Let's look at the following verses too.
Jesus has taken away this fear, this sting,
we are no longer afraid of sin and it's power is taken away.
This reminds me of
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
We are no longer under the slavery to satan and sin,
but to God and righteousness.

This does not take away our requirement of obedience.
John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly. "by the Spirit" . Not "by the letter of the law"

The letter of the Law kills, but the spirit gives life.

We are NOT to do good deeds because we HAVE TO....
With the help of the Holy Spirit and our love for Jesus,
we do them because we WANT TO.

But we still are required to do good deeds and to obey God.
This is not the same as following the Law.

 

[eddif]

Ok lol
Can you hear the silence comong from eddif. I am trying to be slow to speak. I have an opinion, but I am trying to decide if it is correct. I could just say (stay on track), but I left a lot of room for discussion. Jesus on the way to heal the ruler’s daughter, stopped when the lady with the issue of blood touched him. Side trips did not seem to upset Jesus (Matthew 9:18 and following). We are still under the law at this point in time ( healing of the lady). I am thinking. In my life there have been years spent on a certain thought. You know slow redneck talk and thought.

I will try and hurry, but I am just slow. It will work out.

Mississippi redneck
eddif