Understanding the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13)

[JLB]

1. Does the parable start with speaking (sowing) the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven upon them?
2. Does speaking lead to them hearing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?
3. Does them hearing lead to them understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?
4. Does them understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven lead to them believing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?
5. Does them believing lead to their salvation?
6. Does their salvation result in their bearing fruit (proof of being His disciple, John 15:8)?

Does the parable start with speaking (sowing) the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven upon them?

1.] No, the parable does not start with sowing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven upon them.

On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. 3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. Matthew 13:1-4

The sower sowed the Gospel of the Kingdom into their hearts.

Does speaking lead to them hearing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?

2.] Speaking to "them", which is a reference to unsaved people, who have no understanding of the mysteries of the kingdom, leads them to either be saved or not, depending on the choice to believe the Gospel message being spoken to them.

3. Does them hearing lead to them understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?

3.] Hearing the Gospel leads them to either believe or not, since all 4 groups heard the Gospel Message.

Does them understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven lead to them believing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?

The parable of the sower concerns the Gospel message, not, all the mysteries of the kingdom.

Does them believing lead to their salvation?

4.] Yes, believing leads them to salvation.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Does their salvation result in their bearing fruit (proof of being His disciple, John 15:8)?

5. No. The result of bearing fruit, the proof you have remained [abide] connected to Him, is salvation, which comes at the end of your faith [1 Peter 1:9]


JLB

 

[chessman]

How can you be so certain that it is "definitely" no?

Is it because they did not bear fruit?

No.

There are several good reasons to be certain:

1. In explaining the parable, Jesus goes through each example, one by one. When He gets to the good soil, Jesus said the good soil was the one that understood the mystery. (Yes and went on to bear fruit. But my point is, the good soil definitely was the one that understood.) He definitely did not say that for any of the others.

Matthew 13:23 (NASB) And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”​

2. Jesus told His disciples that it was given to the disciples to know (understand) the mysteries but not to the others.

Matthew 13:11, 13 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. ... Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. ​

3. Prophecy (God said it would be this way):

Matthew 13:14 (NASB) In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; ​

4. Personal experience:

When I heard the mystery and began to truly understand it, I can assure you it was not immediately received with joy. I was immediately convinced of my sin, way before I received any joy.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.

There are several good reasons to be certain:

1. In explaining the parable, Jesus goes through each example, one by one. When He gets to the good soil, Jesus said the good soil was the one that understood the mystery. (Yes and went on to bear fruit. But my point is, the good soil definitely was the one that understood.) He definitely did not say that for any of the others.

Matthew 13:23 (NASB) And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”​

2. Jesus told His disciples that it was given to the disciples to know (understand) the mysteries but not to the others.

Matthew 13:11, 13 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. ... Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. ​

3. Prophecy (God said it would be this way):

Matthew 13:14 (NASB) In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; ​

4. Personal experience:

When I heard the mystery and began to truly understand it, I can assure you it was not immediately received with joy. I was immediately convinced of my sin, way before I received any joy.

Why do you believe it was not given to the others to understand the mysteries - but only to the Apostles?

I disagree with your statement no. 1.
Are you saying only the 4th person could be saved?

 

[chessman]

Why do you believe it was not given to the others to understand the mysteries - but only to the Apostles?

Who said it was only the Apostles?

Matthew 13:1-2, 10-11 (NASB) That day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea. And large crowds gathered to Him, so He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach. ...
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” Jesus answered them [disciples], “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
​

He grants understanding to His disciples.
He has not granted understanding to the crowd.

I disagree with your statement no. 1.

Why?

Are you saying only the 4th person could be saved?

Not exactly, no. Jesus didn't say any of the men were saved. (Thus I don't)
What He did say through Isaiah is:

Matthew 13:15 (NASB) For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’ ​

Understanding the mysteries leads to healing. I am saying God grants understanding only to His disciples. And understanding the mysteries leads to salvation which leads to bearing fruit to prove yourself a saved disciple.

Which group does Jesus say understood the mysteries?

Which group proves themselves to be His disciples?

 

[chessman]

Is that not where faith and trust and belief on Him who saves enters the picture?

I don't understand your question relative to my comment.

Reality is a non-alcoholic wine or beer is not a wine or beer it is something different. The label doesn't make it so.

Bingo. That's my point. If you are a diabetic about to go into a coma and believed I held a syringe of insulin that could save you if you took it, but in reality it was saline, would taking the shot save you?

 

[JLB]

Why do you believe it was not given to the others to understand the mysteries - but only to the Apostles?

I disagree with your statement no. 1.
Are you saying only the 4th person could be saved?

I answered no to number one because
the parable of the sower is not about speaking the mysteries of the kingdom, but rather, the "seed" refers to the Gospel Message.

The only message by which men can be saved by believing.

IOW all 4 groups are unbelievers who hear the Gospel Message.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why do you believe it was not given to the others to understand the mysteries - but only to the Apostles?

The parable of the sower is a reference to the Gospel Message, not the mysteries of the kingdom.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I answered no to number one because
the parable of the sower is not about speaking the mysteries of the kingdom, but rather, the "seed" refers to the Gospel Message.

The only message by which men can be saved by believing.

IOW all 4 groups are unbelievers who hear the Gospel Message.


JLB

Hi JLB
Another concept which is important to Mathew 13 is that Jesus said that only the Apostles (disciples until Jesus died and resurrected) were allowed to understand.
Jesus spoke in parables so that the crowd would not undersand.
Mathew 13:2-3

Jesus answers this in Mathew 13:11-17.

But this is off-topic, I believe.

Yes. All 4 groups were unbelievers who reacted differently to the gospel message.

 

[chessman]

the parable of the sower is not about speaking the mysteries of the kingdom, but rather, the "seed" refers to the Gospel Message.

The parable of the sower is a reference to the Gospel Message, not the mysteries of the kingdom.

Matthew 13:10-11 (NASB) And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Matthew 13:19 (NASB) When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. ​

Why do you understand the parable is not about the mysteries of the kingdom?

 

[GodsGrace]

Who said it was only the Apostles?

Matthew 13:1-2, 10-11 (NASB) That day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea. And large crowds gathered to Him, so He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach. ...
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” Jesus answered them [disciples], “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
​

He grants understanding to His disciples.
He has not granted understanding to the crowd.


Why?



Not exactly, no. Jesus didn't say any of the men were saved. (Thus I don't)
What He did say through Isaiah is:

Matthew 13:15 (NASB) For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’ ​

Understanding the mysteries leads to healing. I am saying God grants understanding only to His disciples. And understanding the mysteries leads to salvation which leads to bearing fruit to prove yourself a saved disciple.

Which group does Jesus say understood the mysteries?

Which group proves themselves to be His disciples?

You did not answer my question.

I told you I did not agree with your statement no. 1 in post 82.
You called it "the mystery", but of course you meant the 4th group of persons Jesus was addressing in the parable of the sower.

I don't agree because not only the 4th group was saved. The 2nd group was also saved, albeit for a while. Jesus used the word "temporary" in Mathew 13:21. Their understanding and salvation was temporary.

What I had asked you that required an answer is slightly off topic.
Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables so that only His Apostles, or disciples, would understand Him.

Please don't respond to the word Disciple or Apostle - but answer why Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables so that the crowds would not understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

The parable of the sower is a reference to the Gospel Message, not the mysteries of the kingdom.


JLB

I know this.
Chessman brought up the mysteries.
I believe he meant the gospel message - not sure...

 

[Douglas Summers]

DS
We're not doing a study of 1 Corinthians 2:1-16 on this thread.

1. Your posts are very degrading. Are you the only person on this forum who actually understands the bible and the rest of us have no logic and require study of the passages you quote since we must surely not know what they mean.

2. I send atheists to 1 Corinthians 2:14
Who here is an atheist?

3. Please tell us who is usurping Christ's authority??

If you'll notice in 1 Co 2:1 Paul is saying that he did not have superiority of speech or of wisdom.

YOU apparently, have both. So does 1 Co 2:14 not also apply to you since your understanding of scripture leaves much to be desired??

Our faith does not rest on the wisdom of men but on the power of God.
1 Co 2:5
So do only YOU have the wisdom of men?? Can you not speak to us because we are so immature?? 1 Co 2:6

1 Co 2:12
WE have received the spirit of God. We know the things freely given to us by God.
I can safely assume that although I do not agree with small nuances of some here, and some big beliefs of some here, I can say that we all love the Lord and are doing our best to follow Him and to help each other to understand Him and His ways.

I'm sorry if you don't see this.

It seems that pride is the problem in contending for the faith between us? All Scripture is God breathed and profitable..........(2 Tim. 3:15-17). Paul had the same problem teaching. Others who wanted the honor of position and authority always taught their own understanding, (Gal. 3:1-5) (2 Corinthians chapters 10-12) and Paul, always having to defend Himself, but their is no honor or authority to the called, only responsibility of letting the Spirit magnify Himself in Christ as we become a willing vessel for Him. And I know....I'am not Paul, but I'am called as Paul. I have given up much in this age (persecution by Christians) because of my walk and calling, but I have received so much more. I will not be a bother to you anymore, for the outcome of fellowship should be peace in Christ, not conflict.

Christ in us
Douglas Summers

 

[GodsGrace]

It seems that pride is the problem in contending for the faith between us? All Scripture is God breathed and profitable..........(2 Tim. 3:15-17). Paul had the same problem teaching. Others who wanted the honor of position and authority always taught their own understanding, (Gal. 3:1-5) (2 Corinthians chapters 10-12) and Paul, always having to defend Himself, but their is no honor or authority to the called, only responsibility of letting the Spirit magnify Himself in Christ as we become a willing vessel for Him. And I know....I'am not Paul, but I'am called as Paul. I have given up much in this age (persecution by Christians) because of my walk and calling, but I have received so much more. I will not be a bother to you anymore, for the outcome of fellowship should be peace in Christ, not conflict.

Christ in us
Douglas Summers

You're doing it again.
"Pride is the problem" - who here is prideful? I certainly did not bring that up.

"Others want the honor of position and authority and teach their own understanding".

So...
1. I am practicing the sin of pride.
2. I want honor of position.
3. I want authority.
4. I teach my own understanding.

Have you read the books of John lately?
They speak a lot about love and how we should love each other and encourage each other.

John 13:35 is my favorite.
It's a good verse to practice.

 

[Jim Parker]

The parable of the sower is a reference to the Gospel Message, not the mysteries of the kingdom.

And that is the topic of the thread: "Understanding the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13)"
The parable of the sower is a subset of the mysteries of the kingdom

 

[JLB]

And that is the topic of the thread: "Understanding the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13)"
The parable of the sower is a subset of the mysteries of the kingdom

Yes, the parable of the sower, is a teaching to His disciples, as to the 4 different sets of unbelievers and the condition of their heart.


As a side note to this discussion, I would like to ask you a question:

If you were the Lord, and you had twelve men, who had the responsibility of taking the Gospel to the world, and making disciples in which to do this monumental task, what type of people would you instruct them to invest the little time they had, to accomplish this task among so many that wanted to kill them?

To me the decision is simple.

To me, the parable of the sower is a set of instructions, as to where to invest their precious lives, so as to receive the greatest return on their investment.

In other words, the Gospel is to be preached to all people, but when it comes to making disciples, then they should choose their twelve from those who will become fruitful, [as the fourth group indicates], so that the purpose of being fruitful and multiplying would continue.

If they understood this, then they would understand all the parables.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I know this.
Chessman brought up the mysteries.
I believe he meant the gospel message - not sure...

How can an unbeliever understand the mysteries of the kingdom?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Matthew 13:10-11 (NASB) And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Matthew 13:19 (NASB) When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. ​

Why do you understand the parable is not about the mysteries of the kingdom?

I understand the parable of the Sower is not all encompassing of the mysteries of the kingdom.

IOW - The parable of the Sower does not = All the mysteries of the kingdom.

The parable is about the Gospel Message being preached to unsaved people, so that they will be saved.

It portrays the 4 different groups of unsaved people and their heart condition, and how they react to the Gospel message.

1. Jesus is teaching His disciples, the meaning of this parable, which is a mystery to the unsaved.
2. Jesus explains this parable to His disciples, not to the crowds.
3. The parable of the sower is one of the mysteries of the kingdom and is ABOUT the Gospel message.
4. The Apostles were not called to preach the mysteries of the kingdom to unsaved people, they preach the Gospel.

The parable of the Sower is a mystery, about the Gospel.

The Gospel is not a parable and therefore not a mystery.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why do you understand the parable is not about the mysteries of the kingdom?

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. Matthew 13:10-11

The Gospel is preached to "them", the unsaved, not the mysteries of the kingdom.

The parable of the Sower is a mystery about the Gospel being preached to "them", the unsaved.



JLB

 

[chessman]

but when it comes to making disciples, then they should choose their twelve from those who will become fruitful,

Kinda like Jesus told them here?

Matthew 10:14 (NASB) Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. ​

 

[JLB]

but when it comes to making disciples, then they should choose their twelve from those who will become fruitful,

Kinda like Jesus told them here?

Matthew 10:14 (NASB) Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. ​

No, not at all.

Your verse refers to people who refuse to hear the Gospel message.


The reference I made is who among the believers who had indeed received the Gospel, and would be chosen to become disciples, in which the Apostles would invest their lives and time into their twelve, they would choose to become disciples.


Two completely different scenarios.



JLB