Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Runningman]

Matthew 9:6 Jesus does not say His power to forgive sins was given to Him.
If you think this sentence says that you need to brush up on your comprehension of the English language.
His point is to make clear what He has Power to do.
Mat 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins

You tell me what I am not understanding. I agree with Matt 9:6 where Jesus has power. I also agree with Matt 9:8 where God gave power to men like Jesus to do such. Do you disagree?

Your profound lack of understanding of John 20:23 is evidenced in the fact that if you believe it gives the disciples the power to forgive sins, then you must likewise believe it gives the disciples power to deny forgiveness of sins.
It obviously has not occurred to you that Jesus Himself never denied forgiveness of sin to anyone that asked Him.
Why in the world would he then expect the disciples to be in the business of denying forgiveness of sin to someone?

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus surely did teach it is possible to not be forgiven or receive mercy on a conditional basis. I see no problem with what Jesus told the disciples. If they followed Jesus' teachings then they may have withheld forgiveness based on someone's insincere repentance.

Matt 5
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Matt 6
14For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.

Matt 18
35That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

 

[Randy]

So in what form was He "Firstborn" before the world began ?
We no it wasn't flesh.

He has always been the Son. (His spirit) A beginning before all other things except God
In Him it did please all the fullness of God to dwell. Gifted, not formed, from the will of another. The nature found in the Word- All the fullness of God, He is the image of the invisible God. (all that the Father is)
And by Him and through Him and "For" Him God brought all things into existence.

The Son who was, His spirit, was in the body God prepared for Him. The only begotten Son who came down from the Fathers presence in heaven and testified to what He has seen and heard as the only such eyewitness.
He was in the world and though the world was made through Him the world did not recognize Him. He came to those that were His own but His own did not receive Him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God -children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

When God brings the Firstborn into the world, He commands all His angels to bow to Him. Hebrews 1:6

And God exalted Him as Lord of all except Himself.
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

One God and One Lord
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Your profound lack of understanding of John 20:23 is evidenced in the fact that if you believe it gives the disciples the power to forgive sins, then you must likewise believe it gives the disciples power to deny forgiveness of sins.
It obviously has not occurred to you that Jesus Himself never denied forgiveness of sin to anyone that asked Him.
Why in the world would he then expect the disciples to be in the business of denying forgiveness of sin to someone?

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I also agree with Matt 9:8 where God gave power to men like Jesus to do such. Do you disagree?


Jesus surely did teach it is possible to not be forgiven or receive mercy on a conditional basis. I see no problem with what Jesus told the disciples. If they followed Jesus' teachings then they may have withheld forgiveness based on someone's insincere repentance.

You cannot show any scripture where Jesus Himself denied forgiveness to anyone who came to Him.
Obviously then you cannot show any scripture where a disciple denied it either .
Your ignorance in understanding what John 20:23 is saying remains :
John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

 

[JLB]

the Greek preposition, "dia" with the genitive, does also mean WITH, as Jesus Christ is not the only Creator, as Hebrews 2:10 is clear, that the Father also Created, as does Revelation 4:11, etc

All your attempts at explaining away the Deity of Jesus Christ are futile.


The eternal Godhead:

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Are Creators.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

• But to the Son He says: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Your whole theology seems to be that of denial; denying the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ as YHWH the LORD God.


Again, I ask you to answer my question from Zechariah —


And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:4-5


Who is returning WITH THE SAINTS on the Day of the LORD?


God the Father or God the Son?




JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

So in what form was He "Firstborn" before the world began ?
We no it wasn't flesh.

He has always been the Son. (His spirit) A beginning before all other things except God

What scripture do you base your belief in the creation of Jesus's spirit on ?

 

[SolaScriptura]

All your attempts at explaining away the Deity of Jesus Christ are futile.


The eternal Godhead:

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

Are Creators.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

• But to the Son He says: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Your whole theology seems to be that of denial; denying the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ as YHWH the LORD God.


Again, I ask you to answer my question from Zechariah —


And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:4-5


Who is returning WITH THE SAINTS on the Day of the LORD?


God the Father or God the Son?




JLB

Explain away the Deity of Jesus Christ???

What are you on about???

All my studies are on the Trinity!

This is the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, Three distinct Persons Who are equally YHWH

 

[Runningman]

You cannot show any scripture where Jesus Himself denied forgiveness to anyone who came to Him.
Obviously then you cannot show any scripture where a disciple denied it either .
Your ignorance in understanding what John 20:23 is saying remains :
John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus taught conditional forgiveness. He said so himself so it follows that Jesus practices what he preaches. Next.

Luke 17
3Watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus taught conditional forgiveness. He said so himself so it follows that Jesus practices what he preaches. Next.

Luke 17
3Watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

Scripture please?
Of Jesus refusing to forgive someone asking for forgiveness?

 

[Randy]

What scripture do you base your belief in the creation of Jesus's spirit on ?

The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
The beginning of the creation of God. Rev 3:14 -Jesus only refers to the Father as God no other. As in the beginning of the creation of the Father.

Col 1:19 - From the will of another.

The Father -the only true God.

Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how does this believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

 

[Runningman]

Scripture please?
Of Jesus refusing to forgive someone asking for forgiveness?

This is how Jesus forgives his brothers because he also practices what he preaches.

Luke 17
3Watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

Now your turn. Got anything about unconditional forgiveness in the Bible?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That says Jesus Christ came in the flesh, something I fully believe. You're saying God came in the flesh which is not what 1 John 4:2-3 says. To the contrary, you're under the antichrist spirit.

Jesus said he is the Christ, a man of flesh. That's in agreement with 1 John 4:2-3. Jesus never said "I am God in the flesh" and the Bible doesn't say it anywhere either. By your own logic, you would have Jesus be antichrist too. There's the proof that what you're saying is nonsense.

"... concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." (Rom. 1:3-4)

Jesus is the Son of Man according to the flesh AND the Son of God according to the spirit. By the way, the term "son (of)" herein doesn't mean being the male biological offspring of somebody, but personification or incarnation, the perfect representation, such as "sons of liberty", "sons of anarchy", or the nicknames for John and James, "sons of thunder".

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

It also says that He created the universe, and created everything in it :
"whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
I thought that only God could create the universe and all that is in it ?
How is this possible ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Col 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It also says that He created the universe, and created everything in it :
"whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
I thought that only God could create the universe and all that is in it ?
How is this possible ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Col 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

If God is by definition the creator of the universe, then he MUST be outside of the universe, that's the first law of thermodynamics - in a closed system, no matter or energy can be created or destroyed. The universe can't create itself as atheists/naturalists believe, and it's NOT a closed system. God created it and kept operating it.

 

[Runningman]

"... concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." (Rom. 1:3-4)

Jesus is the Son of Man according to the flesh AND the Son of God according to the spirit. By the way, the term "son (of)" herein doesn't mean being the male biological offspring of somebody, but personification or incarnation, the perfect representation, such as "sons of liberty", "sons of anarchy", or the nicknames for John and James, "sons of thunder".

The problem with saying "Son of God" refers to a perfect manifestation of God is that "son of God" applies to more persons in the Bible than Jesus. It is used in regards to angels and humans. Job 1:6, Luke 20:36. Unless you plan on making a special exception for Jesus based on nothing else than your subjective opinion then I can't take that as true.

Jesus is referred to as God's only begotten son. Some believe it, some don't.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

 

[SolaScriptura]

The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
The beginning of the creation of God. Rev 3:14 -Jesus only refers to the Father as God no other. As in the beginning of the creation of the Father.

Col 1:19 - From the will of another.

The Father -the only true God.

Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how does this believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

are you a Jehovah's Witness? a simple yes or no

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The problem with saying "Son of God" refers to a perfect manifestation of God is that "son of God" applies to more persons in the Bible than Jesus. It is used in regards to angels and humans. Job 1:6, Luke 20:36. Unless you plan on making a special exception for Jesus based on nothing else than your subjective opinion then I can't take that as true.

Jesus is referred to as God's only begotten son. Some believe it, some don't.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

The OP's point is that "monogene" is better translated as "one of a kind", i.e. unique. God is not Zeus, he didn't impregnate Gaia or Mary or any other goddess to have Jesus, He revealed himself as Jesus. Therefore "beget" can't be understood in the sense of "progeny". All the other "sons of God" are created beings, none of them can bring forth enternal life like Jesus.

 

[Randy]

are you a Jehovah's Witness? a simple yes or no

No, Jesus is not now nor ever been a angel. He is however a begotten Son before all things. One in whom all the fullness was pleased to dwell. A Son who came down from heaven and became the Son of Man.

 

[SolaScriptura]

He is however a begotten Son before all things

unbiblical heresy!

 

[Randy]

It also says that He created the universe, and created everything in it :
"whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
I thought that only God could create the universe and all that is in it ?
How is this possible ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Col 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

God created by Him, through and "for Him" all things.
He is all that the Father is for in Him all the fullness of God the "Father", the only true God, was pleased to dwell.
The image of the invisible God. Not the invisible God.
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being.

Yes, God reconciled us to "Himself" not Jesus not the Spirit through Jesus's blood on the cross.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son.
Jesus-The Father living in Him doing His work

God brought all things into existence including Jesus. With Jesus - the Father alone. With all other things through Jesus.
Rev 3:14 -
Rev 4:11
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus is the beginning of the Resurrection of the righteous He spoke of and the firstborn (first to rise) from the dead.

Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God and the Firstborn (first created) of all creation. He was given the Supremacy in all things.

I agree in part.
Begotten from the Father alone before all worlds but not made.

 

[Randy]

unbiblical heresy!

That doesn't make your case as differences have been shown.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

for us includes Jesus Himself the one He states is His God not just His Father
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

Why the need?
Hebrews 1:6
Philippians 2:9
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.