Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Runningman]

The OP's point is that "monogene" is better translated as "one of a kind", i.e. unique. God is not Zeus, he didn't impregnate Gaia or Mary or any other goddess to have Jesus, He revealed himself as Jesus. Therefore "beget" can't be understood in the sense of "progeny". All the other "sons of God" are created beings, none of them can bring forth enternal life like Jesus.

Every one who is a son of God is unique in their own way, but also the same as others in many regards. The same can be said of Jesus. If the translation doesn't match the actual context then the translation is wrong. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, not the unique God and he didn't exist from since time eternal except in God's foreknowledge.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Begotten from the Father alone before all worlds but not made

RANK HERESY

 

[Consecrated Life]

God created by Him, through and "for Him" all things.
He is all that the Father is for in Him all the fullness of God the "Father", the only true God, was pleased to dwell.
The image of the invisible God. Not the invisible God.
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being.

Yes, God reconciled us to "Himself" not Jesus not the Spirit through Jesus's blood on the cross.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son.
Jesus-The Father living in Him doing His work

God brought all things into existence including Jesus. With Jesus - the Father alone. With all other things through Jesus.
Rev 3:14 -
Rev 4:11
You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus is the beginning of the Resurrection of the righteous He spoke of and the firstborn (first to rise) from the dead.

Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God and the Firstborn (first created) of all creation. He was given the Supremacy in all things.

I agree in part.
Begotten from the Father alone before all worlds but not made.

You dodged my question ( no surprise there)
The scripture verse says it is the "Firstborn of creation" who created the universe and everything in the universe ?
How can a created being create the whole universe and everything in it ?
And I thought only God could create the universe ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Randy said:
"The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[Randy]

You dodged my question ( no surprise there)
The scripture verse says it is the "Firstborn of creation" who created the universe and everything in the universe ?
How can a created being create the whole universe and everything in it ?
And I thought only God could create the universe ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Randy said:
"The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I believe God created through Jesus.
God spoke to us in these last days "by" His Son.
Jesus=>it is the Father living in me doing His work.

God created by His Son
Likewise I would state its by that gifted Deity, The Father, who was pleased to dwell IN His Son. The Father living in Him.

You keep quoting Col 1:16. But you ignore all that it states.
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Hebrews 1
About the Son
He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end

Hebrews 1 the very same writer
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

A distinction was made.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

So GOD created all things by His will and at His command. BY, THROUGH, and FOR His Son.

Jesus calls the Father HIS GOD. Clearly, He is stating truth and that the Father is greater than Him.

 

[Randy]

RANK HERESY

Isn't that from the creed you disagree with? Using your one word software translation of koine Greek or you now claiming your a Greek scholar? Where did you study?
I agree in Part
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You dodged my question ( no surprise there)
The scripture verse says it is the "Firstborn of creation" who created the universe and everything in the universe ?
How can a created being create the whole universe and everything in it ?
And I thought only God could create the universe ?
What's up with that Randy ?

Randy said:
"The Firstborn of all creation. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I believe God created through Jesus.

You're getting warmer !
Good to see you vacillating to the right side.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Isn't that from the creed you disagree with? Using your one word software translation of koine Greek or you now claiming your a Greek scholar? Where did you study?
I agree in Part
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.

IF you can find fault with what I write in English, or Greek, or Hebrew, or Latin, then please feel free to correct me. Don't try to be a smart guy with silly remarks!

I have shown very conclusively in the OP, that BEGOTTEN is NEVER used for Jesus Christ, PRIOR to His Conception in the Virgin Mary. But, what you and the others on here are doing, is to reject or disregard FACTS, and keep on presenting your personal theological nonsense!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Every one who is a son of God is unique in their own way, but also the same as others in many regards. The same can be said of Jesus. If the translation doesn't match the actual context then the translation is wrong. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, not the unique God and he didn't exist from since time eternal except in God's foreknowledge.

Jesus is the only rightful heir and legitimate child of God who gets to inherit the kingdom of God, that’s what makes him unique. No other “sons of God” will inherit the kingdom, they’ll all bow down to Jesus.

 

[Randy]

IF you can find fault with what I write in English, or Greek, or Hebrew, or Latin, then please feel free to correct me. Don't try to be a smart guy with silly remarks!

I have shown very conclusively in the OP, that BEGOTTEN is NEVER used for Jesus Christ, PRIOR to His Conception in the Virgin Mary. But, what you and the others on here are doing, is to reject or disregard FACTS, and keep on presenting your personal theological nonsense!

It also states through Him all things were made.

 

[SolaScriptura]

It also states through Him all things were made.

The Greek preposition "dia", also has the meaning of "BY" and "WITH"

In fact, the original meaning of the word is ‘two’ , "between"

 

[Randy]

The Greek preposition "dia", also has the meaning of "BY" and "WITH"

In fact, the original meaning of the word is ‘two’ , "between"

Can't be seen in that manner as it doesn't make sense in regard to "for" Him as it suggests another created for His Son.
As I stated to me the Father living in Him doing His work. Col 1:19 God created "by" Him just as God spoke to us "by" His Son. The Father living in Him doing His work

For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.

But again the creed I agree with in this. All things were created "through" Him. Who created through or by Him? God

 

[SolaScriptura]

Can't be seen in that manner as it doesn't make sense in regard to "for" Him as it suggests another created for His Son.
As I stated to me the Father living in Him doing His work. Col 1:19 God created "by" Him just as God spoke to us "by" His Son. The Father living in Him doing His work

For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.

But again the creed I agree with in this. All things were created "through" Him. Who created through or by Him? God

Firstly, the "creeds" that speak of the Persons in the Godhead, and mostly unbiblical nonsense, as they were mainly written to combat the heresies at the time, like Arianism

Secondly, what do you make of Hebrews 2:10, which is about God the Father?

"Ἔπρεπεν γὰρ αὐτῷ, δι' ὃν τὰ πάντα καὶ δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα"

Note the use of the preposition, δι'. The verse reads. The first is translated as FOR, and the second THROUGH

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things" NASB, ASV, NIV, HCSB, YLT, WEB, RV, NLT, CSB, ERV, NET etc, etc

Versions like the KJV, NKJV, ESV, read BY in the second place. WHY???

Who did the Creating THROUGH God the Father? It must mean Jesus Christ!

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the only rightful heir and legitimate child of God who gets to inherit the kingdom of God, that’s what makes him unique. No other “sons of God” will inherit the kingdom,

Not that either.

Romans 8
17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

they’ll all bow down to Jesus.

Yes but only to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of Jesus.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Randy]

Firstly, the "creeds" that speak of the Persons in the Godhead, and mostly unbiblical nonsense, as they were mainly written to combat the heresies at the time, like Arianism

Secondly, what do you make of Hebrews 2:10, which is about God the Father?

"Ἔπρεπεν γὰρ αὐτῷ, δι' ὃν τὰ πάντα καὶ δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα"

Note the use of the preposition, δι'. The verse reads. The first is translated as FOR, and the second THROUGH

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things" NASB, ASV, NIV, HCSB, YLT, WEB, RV, NLT, CSB, ERV, NET etc, etc

Versions like the KJV, NKJV, ESV, read BY in the second place. WHY???

Who did the Creating THROUGH God the Father? It must mean Jesus Christ!

This is clear who created through who and it wouldn't change.
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him



God created through Jesus not the other way around.
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


So when the creed states all things were created through Jesus I agree in that. It seems very biblical to me.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yes but only to the glory of God the Father, not to the glory of Jesus

Philippians 2

9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

from Isaiah 45, where these Words are used for YHWH

21 Speak up and present your case
yes, let them take counsel together.
Who predicted this long ago?
Who announced it from ancient times?
Was it not I, Yahweh?
There is no other God but Me,
a righteous God and Savior;
there is no one except Me.
22 Turn to Me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth.
For I am God,
and there is no other.
23 By Myself I have sworn;
Truth has gone from My mouth,
a word that will not be revoked:
Every knee will bow to Me,
every tongue will swear allegiance

Jesus Christ is YHWH!

 

[SolaScriptura]

This is clear who created through who and it wouldn't change.
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him



God created through Jesus not the other way around.
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


So when the creed states all things were created through Jesus I agree in that. It seems very biblical to me.

can you reply to the text in Hebrews 2:10. Explain the use of the SAME GREEK PREPOSITION used for Jesus Christ!

You guys are full of cunning! Clear texts are given from the Bible, but you are more interested in your "theology", and reject what the Bible says!

 

[Randy]

Philippians 2

9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

from Isaiah 45, where these Words are used for YHWH

21 Speak up and present your case
yes, let them take counsel together.
Who predicted this long ago?
Who announced it from ancient times?
Was it not I, Yahweh?
There is no other God but Me,
a righteous God and Savior;
there is no one except Me.
22 Turn to Me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth.
For I am God,
and there is no other.
23 By Myself I have sworn;
Truth has gone from My mouth,
a word that will not be revoked:
Every knee will bow to Me,
every tongue will swear allegiance

Jesus Christ is YHWH!

God exalted another.

 

[Randy]

can you reply to the text in Hebrews 2:10. Explain the use of the SAME GREEK PREPOSITION used for Jesus Christ!

You guys are full of cunning! Clear texts are given from the Bible, but you are more interested in your "theology", and reject what the Bible says!

God so loved the world that He gave
Jesus was clear the Father sent Him

I don't feel cunning. I tell you what I see in the text. The same as the creed states. Through Him all things were made.

Again as in Hebews 1 it is spelled out in the text between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever

Even the Spirit that was poured out.
Acts 2
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[SolaScriptura]

God exalted another.

for the Father to EXALT Jesus Christ, to Whom EVERY KNEE WILL BOW in WORSHIP, is one of the strongest Testimonies that Jesus Christ is YHWH! Especially as the passage in Isaiah is speaking about YHWH!!!

You have been stumped!

 

[SolaScriptura]

God so loved the world that He gave
Jesus was clear the Father sent Him

I don't feel cunning. I tell you what I see in the text. The same as the creed states. Through Him all things were made.

Again as in Hebews 1 it is spelled out in the text between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever

Even the Spirit that was poured out.
Acts 2
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

WHAT ABOUT Hebrews 2:10?

By not dealing honestly with this, shows that you use double-standards in what the Bible says to suit your theology!