Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Runningman]

man, your "theology" is SO FAR off from what the Bible teaches!

??
Jesus said Thomas isn't blessed in response .

John 20
25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[SolaScriptura]

John 1:1-14 isn't going anywhere. Jesus was created out of the logos of God who was in the world and Jesus wasn't. Jesus being in the world before descending from heaven isn't a biblical doctrine.

THE HIGHEST BLASPHEMY!

 

[Runningman]

How much Greek do you know? I have shown BEYOND any doubt to the HONEST mind, that μονογενής, does not, and cannot mean "ONLY-BEGOTTEN"!

But, like a few others on here, you have NO interest what this actually means, but bang on about your nonsense THEORIES!!!

What's your workaround for Psalm 2:7? More denials? The Son of God was begotten on a particular day. He has a birthday, a beginning point. He isn't eternal. You can't change the Bible, though you may try.

Psalm 2
7I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.

 

[SolaScriptura]

What's your workaround for Psalm 2:7? More denials? The Son of God was begotten on a particular day. He has a birthday, a beginning point. He isn't eternal. You can't change the Bible, though you may try.

Psalm 2
7I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.

learn some Hebrew and Greek, especially the grammar, before posting more rubbish on here!

 

[Runningman]

THE HIGHEST BLASPHEMY!

Jesus wasn't giving life to the world until he came down from heaven.

John 6
33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

Jesus wasn't in the world until he came down. That means he isn't God.

John 1
9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

 

[7thMoon]

He wouldn't have exclaimed "My lord and my God" if he hadn't recognized Jesus as God. This might be a shocker to you, that Jewish people at that time didn't casually and mindlessly blurted out OMG like modern people do, it was forbidden in the third commandment to take the Lord's name in vain, that's their unforgivable sin for which God will hold them accountable to the third and fourth generations, that's why YHWH was replaced with Hashem (the name) or shamayim (heaven), even in English the o in God and Lord is replaced with a dash, so you've got G-d and L-rd.

You mean "My lord, and my god". He doesn't not say "My god and lord". This is enough to make the common interpretation suspicious.

 

[7thMoon]

THE HIGHEST BLASPHEMY!

You don't the definition of the word. Is it a defamation/blaspheme to say Jesus was sinless man or a sinless God? There is something suspicious in all the English translations.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

OP of this thread seems to want to sweep the begotten Son of God under the rug and replace him with the unique Son. It's clear why. It's because Jesus being a begotten Son as the whole of scripture testifies makes it impossible for him to be God. God is not a begotten Son. God is the Father.

First of all, OP is pointing out some potential inaccurate translation that has caused misunderstandings and wrong doctrines. All scripture is inspired by God, but not every English translation. All English translations have errors and inaccuracies, including KJV and NKJV. So far not a single common English translation gets king Saul's age right in 1 Samuel 13:1. We're encouraged to scrutinize teachings and doctrines like the Bereans, not weaponzing it to attack others who don't disagree with you like what you've been doing.

Second, you don't know God as the father without the son. If you regard God as God the Father, then you've already accepted Jesus as God the Son, because he is the only way to God, and he and God are one. This is like the Herodians who questioned Jesus whether it was legal to pay taxes to Caesar, while the coin they had was the only acceptable currency at the time to pay taxes to Caesar.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You mean "My lord, and my god". He doesn't not say "My god and lord". This is enough to make the common interpretation suspicious.

Nevertheless, both are capitalized in Jn. 20:28. If you don't accept it, that's just your unbelief.

 

[Free]

Jesus said Thomas isn't blessed for what he said. Doubting Thomas had the wrong attitude, requiring physical proof of the resurrection of Jesus.

Where, exactly, did Jesus say that Thomas isn’t blessed? I don’t see that in either the English or the Greek.

Nothing changes the fact that Thomas said directly to Jesus, “The Lord of me and the God of me” and Jesus accepted those words, which lines up with the totality of the biblical evidence about Jesus.

It has nothing to do with Jesus being God. God is the one who resurrected Jesus. Do you believe that in your heart? Romans 10:9

Salvation has everything to do with Jesus being God. If he is not God, we have no salvation.

John 1:1-14 isn't going anywhere. Jesus was created out of the logos of God who was in the world and Jesus wasn't.

The Logos was a “person,” in intimate relationship with God, having existed for eternity past, through whom God created everything that he ever created.

Jesus being in the world before descending from heaven isn't a biblical doctrine.

That remains to be seen, but that is not the point in John 1:10, nor is it a point I made.

Care to address the points I made and the passages I used to support those points?

 

[Free]

Always.

So, now you’re admitting that you always are, for some unknown, completely unwarranted reason, making the definite case indefinite, and the indefinite case definite?

That is merely your opinion.

No, it’s fact that I have and can substantiate with significant proof.

Because Thomas didn't recognize him as God. Therefore there was not need to punish him for idolatry.

No, Thomas very clearly calls Jesus “the Lord of me and the God of me.” And, Jesus agrees by not rebuking Thomas. Again, this is consistent throughout John’s entire gospel. He begins by telling us of the eternal divine nature of the Son and concludes by Thomas’s acknowledgment of the same.

 

[Free]

I suggest that you study the uses of the Greek preposition, διά, because Bible translations like the ESV are very much wrong here.

It doesn’t matter what any Bible translation says, it’s what the Greek says. That’s why I clearly appealed to the Greek.

Genesis 1:1 is clear, "in the beginning GOD Created the heavens and the earth". That is GOD the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, TOGETHER, as Elohim is masculine plural, meaning more than One Person as is clear from Genesis 1:26, "Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness"

Yes, and? That doesn’t negate what those other verses say in the Greek. Each person presumably had their different roles in creation just as they have their different roles in mankind’s salvation. When considering the Trinity, this whole discussion about who did the creating is unnecessarily making a mountain out of a mole hill, imo.

 

[Free]

You mean "My lord, and my god". He doesn't not say "My god and lord". This is enough to make the common interpretation suspicious.

How so? Please be specific.

Remember, Thomas literally said, “the Lord of me and the God of me.” God has the article, so it must be capitalized as it means the one true God.

 

[Randy]

If you deny him as the son of God, then that'd be your unbelief, not anybody else's.

That would be your unbelief.

 

[Randy]

Jesus and all of his disciples are Unitarians. I don't need to recruit anyone since they are doing all of the work.

Well you certainty belief that but you are mistaken.

Jesus was not in the world though. He was sent from God, a heaven sent. I tried to help you, but you can't accept it. The world was created by God. John 1:9,10 prove this. It wasn't Jesus.

John's testimony was about Jesus. And those verses are one of several that note the world was made through Him.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

God the Father created all things by, through and for Jesus.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That would be your unbelief.

What are we even arguing about? If you don't believe that theory, just ignore and forget about it.

 

[Randy]

Ok, I see that you cannot give an straight answer to what Hebrews 2:10 says, as no doubt that it will contradict your belief about Jesus Christ!

Romans 11:36, where we also read, “οτι εξ αυτου και δι αυτου και εις αυτον τα παντα (For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things)”. Here, like in Hebrews 2:10, we have the same Greek preposition, διά, which also means, THROUGH. Who else Created THROUGH God the Father? Answer: Jesus Christ!

You are argue all you like, but none of what you say can change the meaning of what the Bible says!

I know what the testimony states. God the Father created all things through, by and "for' Jesus.

What do you believe was "from" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

 

[SolaScriptura]

What do you believe was "from" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

Praise, Honour and Glory!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What do you believe was "from" the Father in regard to the person of the Son?

Power to perform all those supernatural miracles.

 

[Randy]

Praise, Honour and Glory!

You don't believe this?
True God FROM True God
I know you refuse this
Begotten from the Father before all worlds.

My point in Hebrews is in regard to the creation.
About the Son
He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Doesn't negate this understanding from the very same writer who is contrasting Jesus's "Sonship" vs the Angels of God. A sonship that clearly is before the world was made and far superior to the angels of God.

n the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe