Unveiled Secrets The Rapture

[JLB]

Because on the day of the Rapture, the dead are raised first then the living are raised afterwards all on the same DAY.

Yes, That's what I teach, on The Day of the Lord.



JLB

 

[Mark S]

i would tend to agree but my point is scripture is not completely clear ..i

A lot of the details are not completely clear yet. however as we get closer to the 2nd coming God will make more of the details clear to guide us to the right path & actions at the right time.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation means the unveiling as John was given all these visions to write down and at that time to give all these letters to the seven Churches in Asia and for all the generations to come until the time of Christ return. These are warnings to prepare us for those things which must come first before the return of Christ on the last day, John 6:40. We are not to fear that which has to come, Matthew 10:28, but be prepared as His Bride so we are not taken as a theif in the night, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-7. No one knows the day or the hour, but Matthew 24 gives us an outline of those things to watch for , especially in vs. 29-31, as at that time will Jesus send His angels to gather us as we are then caught up to Him in the resurrection found in John 5:28, 29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

There has never been anyone who has died and gone up to heaven as it is only the breath that God breathed in us that goes back to Him. We are not God's army, but His servants here on earth as He works through us.

Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6: 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What everyone is missing with all these theories out there is two simple words, last day. Not before, not in the middle, but the last final day of Gods great wrath will Christ return to destroy the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, binding Satan for a time so Jesus can send His angels out to gather all that are of Christ, alive and asleep in the grave, to Him as we are gathered up in the clouds to meet Him in the air and forever be with Him.

Just within the few scriptures I gave in this post teaches much if we would read them for what they say as they are pretty clear and self explanatory.

 

[Jim Parker]

Revelation means the unveiling as John was given all these visions to write down and at that time to give all these letters to the seven Churches in Asia and for all the generations to come until the time of Christ return. These are warnings to prepare us for those things which must come first before the return of Christ on the last day, John 6:40. We are not to fear that which has to come, Matthew 10:28, but be prepared as His Bride so we are not taken as a theif in the night, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-7. No one knows the day or the hour, but Matthew 24 gives us an outline of those things to watch for , especially in vs. 29-31, as at that time will Jesus send His angels to gather us as we are then caught up to Him in the resurrection found in John 5:28, 29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Yes.
At the end of the age when Jesus comes to judge and to rule.

 

[Truth7t7]

Unveiled Secrets The Rapture
Summary

This chapter the Rapture is out of sequence for two reasons; first, because one of the most popular belief is that the believers in Christ will be raptured before Tribulation’s get started. Therefore, they are not interested in the prophecies of tribulations because they believe they are not going to be here for it. The second reason is the fact that no one knows the exact date and time, the rapture will occur.
A very popular belief in our day is that the Rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation. Because this is, what people want to believe and most of the churches are, happy to tell people this because it tickles their ears. Others believe the rapture will occur Midway through the tribulation period. Some groups like the Jehovah witnesses do not believe there will be rapture at all. However, when we examine the information given to us in the Bible we will see what Gods word tell us. The Rapture will be followed by a short, but terrible, period of judgment before God destroys the world.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQw1zVVY8Ie2mtfIARigHjO3NTGVHlB4FIOcVqfDLyZ3rGp8FpUV6TltlI69j5ysVLRAMX5_EMfKndt/pub

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below is the common text for the "Claim" of a pre trib rapture?

You will closely note that in verse 16 we see the "Resurrection" of the believer, Jesus Christ taught the "Resurrection" of believers was to be on "The Last Day"

The Very fact presented in scripture below, removes the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven, "Gone"

Now to maintain this teaching, the pre-tribber must bend and twist "The Last Day"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[JLB]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below is the common text for the "Claim" of a pre trib rapture?

You will closely note that in verse 16 we see the "Resurrection" of the believer, Jesus Christ taught the "Resurrection" of believers was to be on "The Last Day"

The Very fact presented in scripture below, removes the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven, "Gone"

Now to maintain this teaching, the pre-tribber must bend and twist "The Last Day"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

:amen

 

[Mark S]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 below is the common text for the "Claim" of a pre trib rapture?

You will closely note that in verse 16 we see the "Resurrection" of the believer, Jesus Christ taught the "Resurrection" of believers was to be on "The Last Day"

The Very fact presented in scripture below, removes the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven, "Gone"

Now to maintain this teaching, the pre-tribber must bend and twist "The Last Day"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

yes your are right

 

[Biblesurveyor]

I don't wish to argue, but I have just one question:

Since I haven't made up my mind yet (I'm still looking at various opinions and interpretations of scripture), I have gone on line and viewed you-tube sermons of some of my favorite ministers teaching on the subject of the last days and the chronology of events.

Some agree and some don't with your conclusions.

I could name a lot of them, but the three that I have listened to are far more knowledgeable than I (I was a math major), and they are David Jeremiah, Tiff Shuttlesworth and Amir Tsarfati. I have read books by two of them, and consider them to be well versed in end time events.

My problem: They all preach pre- tribulation with vivid and convincing biblical proof (at least it looks so for me)
How on earth do I reconcile this?

 

[for_his_glory]

Biblesurveyor there are many pre-trib bandwagon teachers that have copied their theories tracing back to the 1800's as before that time no Prophet or Apostle taught such a thing as a quiet secret catching up of the saints of God.

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.
(Reference
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

(Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Biblesurveyor]

I have no more to say, except that I'm confused about Rev. 6: 15.
What is your explanation about the "kings, great men, rich men, commanders, mighty men, every slave and every free man" hide in caves and rocks in mountains.

Doesn't that include All men? If so, then the believers are all gone. Where are they? (just wondering)

 

[JLB]

I have no more to say, except that I'm confused about Rev. 6: 15.
What is your explanation about the "kings, great men, rich men, commanders, mighty men, every slave and every free man" hide in caves and rocks in mountains.

Doesn't that include All men? If so, then the believers are all gone. Where are they? (just wondering)

The Lord Jesus tells us the resurrection and rapture happen at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Can we agree on this? It seems very clear to me.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I have no more to say, except that I'm confused about Rev. 6: 15.
What is your explanation about the "kings, great men, rich men, commanders, mighty men, every slave and every free man" hide in caves and rocks in mountains.

Doesn't that include All men? If so, then the believers are all gone. Where are they? (just wondering)

I know you asked JLB, but would like to give you my understanding as i use to believe in pretrib, but no more.

Read Rev 6:14-17 as one verse doesn't always stands alone.

The heaven departs as mentioned in Isaiah 34:4 as a scroll that is rolled together. After the wars in the fourth seal the atmosphere is also clouded with smoke that folds in between itself. If you have ever watched a storm roll in you see this affect of the clouds rolling into each other as it darkens the sky and blocks out the sun. Every mountain and island is moved out of their places by the great earthquakes this Global war has caused

These Pharisee type false prophets try to hide themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains and ask the mountains and rocks to surround them and hide them from the wrath of God that is now at hand. These are those who have perverted their ways and have forgotten God their Lord. They hope by hiding their shame God will pass them by and they will be spared, but their shame will devour them unless they truly repent and turn back to God as now Gods final wrath has come. The only ones who will be able to stand at this time are those who have endured unto the end and have Gods seal on them as they have been Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22.

Plus Jesus gave us the signs to watch for His coming on the last day.
​

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Biblesurveyor]

But believers will not hide in caves and rocks on mountains, as Rev 6:15 says.

So, again, where are the true believers in that verse - it seems to me that they are Not on earth, and if some have died, and some did not, then the only place they can be is in heaven.

 

[for_his_glory]

But believers will not hide in caves and rocks on mountains, as Rev 6:15 says.

So, again, where are the true believers in that verse - it seems to me that they are Not on earth, and if some have died, and some did not, then the only place they can be is in heaven.

Rev 6:15 is not talking about those who are Christ own. It's teaching about those who are of this world being conformed to the world that are not Christ own as they have rejected Him. This is the timing of the six seal that begins God's great wrath being poured out into the world as God is going to shake the earth, vs 12-14.

Back in Rev 6:9-10 the souls that were under the altar cried out to God as when they will be avenged. God answers them in vs. 11 and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Vs 12 the sixth seal is opened ushering in God's great wrath (tribulation). Now scripture does not say anything about a seven year tribulation, but only teaches us of a 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition in the last days during the seventh trumpet, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5, who will cause all to take his mark and if one does not denounce Christ and bow down to him they will die a martyr's death like their fellowservents and brethren and this takes us back to Rev 6:11 where they have to wait till their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

After this 3 1/2 year reign of this last antichrist being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5; 1 John 2:18-19, we read in Rev 19 starting with vs. 11 that this is the second coming of Christ as at that time we are gathered up to him to meet Him in the air as this is the last day and every will happen very quickly.

There is so much more I would like to share with you on this, but tryin to nutshell it as it is very lengthy. If you are interested I wrote a book on Revelation that you can find in the sub forum here in the End times forum under Revelation that will show you there is no pretrib Rapture of the Church.

 

[Biblesurveyor]

Thanks, I will continue to study this, and pray for wisdom.

I am still amazed at how many WELL KNOWN ministers whom I admire preach the pre-trib with enthusiasm.

Can there be that many (who are supposed to be filled with the holy spirit, who guides into all truth) that are under a false understanding? Its still a mystery to me.

 

[hawkman]

@Biblesurveyor there are many pre-trib bandwagon teachers that have copied their theories tracing back to the 1800's as before that time no Prophet or Apostle taught such a thing as a quiet secret catching up of the saints of God.

I know I am late to this thread but I have something .

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373).


https://pretribulation.com/the-rapture/ephraem-the-syrian-and-the-rapture/

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks, I will continue to study this, and pray for wisdom.

I am still amazed at how many WELL KNOWN ministers whom I admire preach the pre-trib with enthusiasm.

Can there be that many (who are supposed to be filled with the holy spirit, who guides into all truth) that are under a false understanding? Its still a mystery to me.

Even I was enticed into believing a pretrib Rapture of the Church because they were our Pastors and should know what they are talking about, but could never find within all the scriptures they give to support their theories. Everything I studied in the Bible points to the last day at the end of time is when Christ returns and then we are caught up to Him.

Pretrib is nothing more than a bandwagon money making false teaching that started in the 1800's as Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture. There theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.

​

 

[for_his_glory]

I know I am late to this thread but I have something .

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373).


https://pretribulation.com/the-rapture/ephraem-the-syrian-and-the-rapture/

Let me ask you and all who believe in a pretrib Rapture.

What would be the purpose of God's great wrath being poured out into the world and that of the mark of the beast if we are already taken out before all this happens?

 

[for_his_glory]

I know I am late to this thread but I have something .

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373).


https://pretribulation.com/the-rapture/ephraem-the-syrian-and-the-rapture/

I have listened to Grant Jeffery in the past, but yet all theories without scriptural proof.