Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Corinth77777]

A child of disobedience cannot choose to be obedient. By nature we are the children of disobedience and walk according to that spirit and nature Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

All those scriptures are true.
But men still must choose to believe the gospel after they hear it.

The will of the father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

 

[Free]

Omniscience and Omnibenevolence

Do you believe Jesus was both God and man?

If yes then

If he was tempted and could not sin why was He tempted?

You are saying that Jesus did not have the ability
to sin....Do you still believe that?

I don't see what this has to do with what we were discussing, which was God, not Jesus.

 

[Corinth77777]

What awakens one to come alive the Gospel ..The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for everyone that believes.

Good news from far away is like cold water to the thirsty. 25 Like a cool drink of water when you're worn out and weary is a letter from a long-lost friend. 25 [As] cold waters to a thirsty soul, So is good news from a far country.

I don't see what this has to do with what we were discussing, which was God, not Jesus.

So you are saying Jesus is not God in the flesh?

 

[Free]

So you are saying Jesus is not God in the flesh?

No, I clearly stated that that has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Please keep it to that.

 

[Corinth77777]

No, I clearly stated that that has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Please keep it to that.

Just because you clearly stated "it has nothing to do with what we are talking about" makes that your opinion. It has much to do with it. Now if you can't argue your position without your opinion then no need for discussion.
Blessings

 

[Free]

Just because you clearly stated "it has nothing to do with what we are talking about" makes that your opinion. It has much to do with it. Now if you can't argue your position without your opinion then no need for discussion.
Blessings

No, it isn't my opinion. I was going to argue for my position, but you shifted the discussion. My response to you was:

"Yes. He cannot.


He’s wrong. It’s a lack of understanding what omnipotence actually entails and is easily proven false."

That was about the nature of God. But, you replied with a question about the nature of Jesus, which had nothing to do with what I stated. Before discussing the nature of Jesus, we must start with the nature of God--what omnipotence and omniscience actually entail--to understand who he is. You can't go discussing how Jesus's divine and human natures interact, or even if they do, if you don't understand the divine nature to begin with.

 

[Corinth77777]

No, it isn't my opinion. I was going to argue for my position, but you shifted the discussion. My response to you was:

"Yes. He cannot.


He’s wrong. It’s a lack of understanding what omnipotence actually entails and is easily proven false."

That was about the nature of God. But, you replied with a question about the nature of Jesus, which had nothing to do with what I stated. Before discussing the nature of Jesus, we must start with the nature of God--what omnipotence and omniscience actually entail--to understand who he is. You can't go discussing how Jesus's divine and human natures interact, or even if they do, if you don't understand the divine nature to begin with.

https://discover.hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Can-God-Sin

Read this when you have time then tell me what you think.

Jesus is God of course I can...
God is one

 

[Free]

https://discover.hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Can-God-Sin

Read this when you have time then tell me what you think.

"The argument states that if God is all-powerful, then he necessarily has the power to sin. However, God must also be all-good, and if he sins he ceases to be God. Therefore, God can be either all-powerful, or all-good, but cannot be both. But ceasing to be either of these also means that he ceases to be God.

Theologians have developed typical arguments to solve this challenge, the primary one being that God, at no expense to his omnipotence, cannot perform “logical contradictions” (such as making a “square circle”). Since a it would be logical contradiction for a being who is perfectly good to commit a sin, God does not compromise his omnipotence by being unable to sin."

The theological response is correct. Also, from the conclusion, this is false:

"In conclusion, this paper has sought to show that while God has the ability to sin (through his omnipotence and creative power), he is certain not to exercise this power because he is perfectly virtuous."

Again, for the very same reason I gave previously: it's based on a misconception of omnipotence that can easily be refuted. God's omnipotence necessarily precludes the ability to do the logically impossible--to perform logical contradictions or go against his nature. It's not a matter of God choosing to not go against his nature, he cannot, or he ceases to be God.

 

[Oseas]

The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing.

Isaiah 40: 28
28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting GOD, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of His understanding. -> (Then...)

Isaiah 40:13-25

13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being His counsellor hath taught Him?

14 With whom took He counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of Judgment, and taught Him knowledge, and shewed to Him the way of understanding?

15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity.

18 To whom then will ye liken GOD? or what likeness will ye compare unto Him?

21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and He shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

 

[brightfame52]

All those scriptures are true.
But men still must choose to believe the gospel after they hear it.

The will of the father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

Man cant obey the Gospel by nature, he can only disobey it, thats his nature. Its like if you before a lion a zebra steak and a fruit salad to eat, he cant choose the fruit salad because of his nature, his nature demands he choose the zebra steak.

 

[brightfame52]

Corinth77777

But men still must choose to believe the gospel after they hear it.

Naturally men cant hear the Gospel, Gods word spiritually. Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Corinth77777]

Man cant obey the Gospel by nature, he can only disobey it, thats his nature. Its like if you before a lion a zebra steak and a fruit salad to eat, he cant choose the fruit salad because of his nature, his nature demands he choose the zebra steak.

Sounds like your mind is seeing through some type of doctrinal lense you believe.

I believe man come alive when they hear the gospel.

Their old nature was dead. But upon hearing they come alive and can respond

What I found with those who who trust a doctrine rather than Jesus is they are stuck by the bounds of their doctrine. When the system created in that doctrine they interpret through are not facts it leads to cultic mentalities.

The foundation is always Jesus.
I'm no theologian but sounds like something I heard called hyper Calvinism.

Jesus said in a passage...something like this- the words He spoke were Spirit and life.
......
How beautiful are the feet of the one that brings good news.

Corinth77777



Naturally men cant hear the Gospel, Gods word spiritually. Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Corinth77777]

Corinth77777



Naturally men cant hear the Gospel, Gods word spiritually. Jn 8:43,47

In John He is talking about a group of people who can't accept Jesus's truth because they think they know the truth.

If they think they know they are not going to receive anything new.

I think you are applying this to some type of election doctrine..

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Corinth77777]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Corinth77777]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I am not sure what hyper Calvin people believe..But this is the way I see it:

Think of Geometry for example
There are those postulates---
suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

If the right postulates are used you all get to the same answer.

But in certain Doctrines of election and so forth.
What if the theory that has become part of the doctrine doesn't say all that it doesn't mean, or all that it could be meant by it, yet it is assumed that it does. What happens? The outcome of interpretating other scriptures has to be made to be forced in.

For example a kindergarden class
Is told to put away the puzzles, but instead one piece of the car puzzle went into the fireman puzzle bag and one piece of the fire truck went into the car puzzle bag. So the next time they do the car puzzle the last piece is the door of the fire truck.
What do the children do? They try to force it to make it fit.

Another thing is when people trust their doctrine instead of Jesus, I read 2 things: One, they easily judge others and can be some mean people. And secondly, it is said they don't grow spiritually. One thing about the truth, it will always set you free. You don't have to squeeze, twist, and smash knowledge into a doctrine.

One must check their "postulates" to see if they understood them correctly.

 

[Oseas]

If by free will one means ability to choose ..then yes one has free will

Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD's perspetive, the difference of wisdom is unspeakable.

There is a great difference between who was/is born of GOD and who was/ is born of the blood, and of the flesh, and of the will of man. The first man is of the earth, earthy. 1Corinthians 15:46->46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural(animal); and afterward that which is spiritual.
7 And the Lord GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, --> (has eyes but doesn't see, has ears but doesn't hear, has mouth but doesn't speak; Then the Lord GOD breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. But GOD said by the prophet : Isaiah 2:22-Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Remember: John 1:9-10 & 5 & 11:
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

JESUS said: John 3:3- Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of GOD.

So, howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural(animal); and afterward that which is spiritual.
John 20:21-22-
21 Then said JESUS to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:

Therefore, based on the Word of GOD, I think you should re-study and revise your interpretation, making difference between interpretation by the spirit that is in common man and is of man, and the Spirit of GOD that is the Word.-John 4:24 combined with John 6:63.

GOD BLESS

?

What I meant is that before GOD there is no freewill, it's invention of the Devil, it is not the man who decides what he wants, but either GOD or the Devil who decides in him. Who is of GOD: ->Philippians 2:13&15-> 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom (that is of Devil) ye shine as lights in the world;
The man that is dominated by the spirit of Devil, the Devil decides in him : JESUS said: John 8:34 & 38 & 44-45: --> 34 Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
--> 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father (GOD the Father) and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
--> 44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie(freewill for example), he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--> 45 And because I tell you the Truth, ye believe me not.

It's it.

 

[Randy]

Adam listened to his wife. Eve had to be deceived so Satan didn't have control of her will and she did what God told her not to do so God wasn't in control of her will.

Adams excuse didn't hold water. We are responsible for what we do.
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

 

[Corinth77777]

What I meant is that before GOD there is no freewill, it's invention of the Devil, it is not the man who decides what he wants, but either GOD or the Devil who decides in him. Who is of GOD: ->Philippians 2:13&15-> 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom (that is of Devil) ye shine as lights in the world;
The man that is dominated by the spirit of Devil, the Devil decides in him : JESUS said: John 8:34 & 38 & 44-45: --> 34 Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
--> 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father (GOD the Father) and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
--> 44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie(freewill for example), he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--> 45 And because I tell you the Truth, ye believe me not.

It's it.

You said a lot, and unfortunately you did not show me that man has no free will. Its after one is born in my opinion that that scripture is speaking of God working in you for his good pleasure..etc

When man is given choices He can choose. He was not made a complete robot. After all Man chose to eat off the tree of knowledge of good and evil instead of eating off every other tree in the garden where He could choose what tree and what fruit.

The scripture says and as many as received Him He gave them right to become sons of God..
No one is not saying that God doesn't have a way of openining up the mind to the blind. God gives enough of something where no one can claim they did it without God. But certainly I believe people were born with the ability to make choices, and that's what I consider free will.

It seems these election doctrines want to throw out the baby with the bath water, rubber ducky and wash rag.

Peace

 

[Corinth77777]

What I meant is that before GOD there is no freewill, it's invention of the Devil, it is not the man who decides what he wants, but either GOD or the Devil who decides in him. Who is of GOD: ->Philippians 2:13&15-> 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom (that is of Devil) ye shine as lights in the world;
The man that is dominated by the spirit of Devil, the Devil decides in him : JESUS said: John 8:34 & 38 & 44-45: --> 34 Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
--> 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father (GOD the Father) and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
--> 44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie(freewill for example), he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--> 45 And because I tell you the Truth, ye believe me not.

It's it.

Willard
"God gives enough where no one can claim they did it without God"

I think it was Him who also said something like this: There is nothing we do without Him and there is certainly nothing going to be down without Him. I have to find the quote.

 

[brightfame52]

Sounds like your mind is seeing through some type of doctrinal lense you believe.

I believe man come alive when they hear the gospel.

Their old nature was dead. But upon hearing they come alive and can respond

What I found with those who who trust a doctrine rather than Jesus is they are stuck by the bounds of their doctrine. When the system created in that doctrine they interpret through are not facts it leads to cultic mentalities.

The foundation is always Jesus.
I'm no theologian but sounds like something I heard called hyper Calvinism.

Jesus said in a passage...something like this- the words He spoke were Spirit and life.
......
How beautiful are the feet of the one that brings good news.

You have it backwards,men are first made alive in order to hear. A dead person cannot first hear to be resurrected from the dead.