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Klee shay
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Jesus said that in heaven the last shall be first and the first shall be last.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
Revelation 4:2-4 & 9-11Merry Menagerie said:As far as I'm aware only God and Jesus are in heaven.
Merry Menagerie said:Everyone else is asleep and waiting for the return of Jesus Christ when they will be raised up. I will honor who God puts it on my heart to honor.
So lets all bow down and worship her shall we? Not! Sorry no can do...I only have eyes for Christ.
The knowledge that we are all one in Christ Jesus and that no one is better than anyone.
Theophilus said:Revelation 4:2-4 & 9-11Merry Menagerie said:As far as I'm aware only God and Jesus are in heaven.
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “ You are worthy, O Lord,
There is a few more people there with him.
[quote="Merry Menagerie":c631d]
Everyone else is asleep and waiting for the return of Jesus Christ when they will be raised up. I will honor who God puts it on my heart to honor.
Why do you judge theophilus as bowing down and worshipping her? Do you know his heart?
Revelation was a prophecy, but this is not the discussion at hand.Merry Menagerie said:Friend, Revelation is prophecy - meaning it hasn't happened yet.
Merry Menagerie said:And I didn't say THEY DIE. I said that they are asleep in Christ. When Jesus returns they will be raised up.
It actually sounded like you did, but i take no offence.Merry Menagerie said:I actually didn't.Why do you judge theophilus as bowing down and worshipping her? Do you know his heart?
No one can not tell another person what motivates his actions.
Merry Menagerie said:Why do you judge theophilus as bowing down and worshipping her? Do you know his heart?
I actually didn't.
So lets all bow down and worship her shall we? Not! Sorry no can do...I only have eyes for Christ.
So subtle, but so clear to those that see through the darkness. So tell me, When I visit your orthodox church, will I be greeted with whispers?
As a disclaimer, let me say before my words get distorted. Mary is blessed above all women. Mary demands her due respect. That being said,
1. Are there those among your orthodox brothers and sisters that worship Mary?
2. Have you ever prayed to Mary longer than you prayed to the Father?
3. Have you ever put more faith in Mary than the Father?
4. Why does the Catholic literature regarding Mary highlight that the name Mary needs to be mentioned with the name Jesus and not alone?
Every Hebrew child would know from memory who the prophets and heroes of faith were, yet there is nearly no adult in modern churches who knows who Athanasius was, or who the martyrs of Sebaste were, or what Saint Patrick really did, or how out fathers and mothers struggled against Islam at peril of their lives.
I guess you just set us up for the ortho bunch and the rcc to begin John the Baptist worship now!Heidi said:In answer to the OP; Mary was not born of God but of two human beings and so was John the Baptist. Yet he knew who Christ was long before Mary did! Jesus said;
"I tell you the truth, among those born of women, there has not risen anyone greater than John the baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." There you have it from Christ's own mouth. He tells us who is great, not the catholics. Jesus specifically names John the Baptist as being the greatest man born of humans, not his mother. And since the catholics do not believe that Mary is the least in the kingdom of heaven, then she cannot be greater than John the Baptist according to Christ.
Why yes, of course, for we had never read that part about John the Baptist being so important. Thanks to you bible people, we now have someone else to worship! Hooray!!Solo said:I guess you just set us up for the ortho bunch and the rcc to begin John the Baptist worship now!Heidi said:In answer to the OP; Mary was not born of God but of two human beings and so was John the Baptist. Yet he knew who Christ was long before Mary did! Jesus said;
"I tell you the truth, among those born of women, there has not risen anyone greater than John the baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." There you have it from Christ's own mouth. He tells us who is great, not the catholics. Jesus specifically names John the Baptist as being the greatest man born of humans, not his mother. And since the catholics do not believe that Mary is the least in the kingdom of heaven, then she cannot be greater than John the Baptist according to Christ.
Luke 1:48, For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Either Mary and Luke are incorrect or the ones that will not bless Mary are not in the generations that belong to God.
Do I need to quote the scriptures that indicate this?
John the Forerunner is one of the most revered Saints in the Church. Like Mary, he holds a place of special regard in the Church, as do all of the pioneers of the faith. They hold this place because they are luminaries, lights of the Light, and we follow them as they followed Christ.
one of the most revered Saints in the Church
Remember said:John the Forerunner is one of the most revered Saints in the Church. Like Mary, he holds a place of special regard in the Church, as do all of the pioneers of the faith. They hold this place because they are luminaries, lights of the Light, and we follow them as they followed Christ.
All the saints (Christians) are revered by God.
Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons :
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
(the second bold is just an additional point not being spoken of in this thread)
Christ's church does not place any one or group of persons above another. We look to what was written, not necessarily the writer. Though we can learn from both, not set them on a pedistal (we are not supposed to do that as noted above and below in scriptures)
Col 1:24
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church :
All Christians are equal parts of His church.
Eph 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
They have their purpose but are still not above any other Christian in God's eyes.
1 Cor 3:4-7
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul ; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
We are being told not to praise, exhault them or to follow THEM. We are to follow Christ only.
1 Cor 1:12-13
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul ; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul ?
[quote:0daec]one of the most revered Saints in the Church
You will note my bold.And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Of whom the world was not worthy: they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
No need to underline there.As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Here Paul is saying that none should be divided over the great men. I of Luther, I of Calvin, I of Moody. Jesus Himself says that the woman who poured out the nard on His feet would be remembered for all time. The scriptures themselves are a memorial to the victories and failures of the people of God.12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul ; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul ?
You will note my bold.[/quote:97c95]Oh, indeed the scriptures have plenty to say on the matter:
The epistle to the Hebrews
[quote:97c95]And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Of whom the world was not worthy: they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth
Your post is smeared in American self-worth.
I remember the woman who kissed Christ's feet and it wasn't Mary! But no one has yet to erect a statue in her honor. Does the bible say that we are supposed to do that to people?