Merry Menagerie said:
As far as I'm aware only God and Jesus are in heaven. Everyone else is asleep and waiting for the return of Jesus Christ when they will be raised up. I will honor who God puts it on my heart to honor.
Moses and Elijah were so much alive that Peter wanted to build them homes! Sleeping eh? I will purposely not give scripture referances only the quotes since protestant "know their bibles" so well.
Thy dead men shall live, together WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This is a referance to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Plainly in the new covenant the dead are now alive. Surely the saints of the Church, “those that are precious in His Sight†are alive in Christ as much as some self proclaimed saint that is alive on the earth.
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
This verse is fulfillment of the above quote.
It is obvious that with the resurrection and Jesus Christ conquering death by death that the state of the dead has changed! The protest would have us believe Jesus Christ conquered death to have it remain exactly the way it was before He over came it!
In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man was very much alive to the point he could see Abraham and Lazarus and speak to them asking them to warn his family of the torments of hell. Very much alive.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord (For we walk by faith, not by sight ) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. Here Paul plainly states when he dies He will be in the presents of the Lord, then goes on to say he labors. Weather in the body or absent (dead). If the saints are dead how can they be laboring to be acceptable? How can Paul possibly “aim†to be “acceptable†to Christ in unconsciousness? Aiming at something or doing something are entirely conscience activities.
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ, which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
Here Paul is betwixted between staying with the Church he loves and “to be with Christâ€Â. Truly Paul saw the Church in highest regards. The Church he loved was quite visible and alive both in heaven and on the earth.
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known BY THE CHURCH the manifold wisdom of God……..For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.
The Church is the whole family of God both in heaven and on the earth.
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY and CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and TO THE SPIRIT OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The past tense †ye are come†thus shows the Church on the Earth is joined in a mystery to the Church in Heaven. These heavenly and earthly contingents form the ONE unified Body of Jesus Christ. The “first-born†are the “spirits of just men made perfect†that is not an unconsciousness a trait of a perfect man. These just men are assembled with us on the earth in the “cloud of witnessesâ€Â. For what purpose does the Church come together? The Church enters into communion to worship Jesus Christ. Plainly “dead†saints would not be able come into communion as dead, mindless souls passing there time in oblivion. At the resurrection of Jesus Christ death was utterly defeated. Clearly, since the resurrection, the OT blanket prohibitions on communing with the dead are not applicable. No separation or isolation exists nor can be draw between the Church visible on the Earth and the invisible Church in Heaven. The heavenly version of worship is the same as what is found in the Body of Christ on the Earth, the Holy Orthodox Church.
People that claim the saints, martyrs and Mary are dead are insensitive and uncaring. Would these people stand up at a funeral in which a mother or a brother says “I can feel Johnny now†or “Johnny can hear us†or “I know Johnny is looking down on us†or “Johnny is still with us and we will see him again†and tell them they are wrong and their loved one is DEAD! No caring person would do that yet the protestant Christian will cry Mary is dead! The saints are dead! What an insult to the living! Fact is those saints in heaven are more alive than those on the earth.
Orthodoxy
