We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

[GodsGrace]

it isn't true love if there isn't actions of the that love. my wife knows that I love her because I have taken in her family to feed them, house them because they are extension of her. my wife knows I love her because I work to provide for her health care. my wife knows I love her because I tell her.

I know my wife loves me because she worries if eat enough. I know my wife loves me because she will often force me to see a doctor when I refuse to . my wife loves me because if she sees a person who will try to abuse my caring nature , she will stop that.

love isn't a saying but an action. it starts with declaring a love which is outward expression of what is felt and deepens from trials and tribulation.

marriage teaches much. there is always room to love more.

Great post !

 

[Douglas Summers]

No, he’s incorrect . [Which is my opinion that alone carry’s as much evidence as your opinion above does. Namely none.]

However, making a claim that He’s incorrect in the following claim (which is what I was replying to) can be easily supported with Scripture and with Luther’s own claims and biography:



Saved by Grace through faith in Him originated with Christ, not Luther.





No.

I am the door. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. And he will go in and go out, and he will find pasture.
John 10:9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 10:9&version=DLNT​

Incorrect. He died and rose for our sins.

Amen!

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. -Jesus

Absolutely right Creative . Martin Luther minimized importance of doing good works if you eject Christ as Savior. It's true that works won't save . But neither will faith without diligent obedience. That's absolutely important to understand for all Christians. Jesus clearly warns all fruitless Christians in Matthew 7: 19

When the woman with a hemorrhage went and touched Jesus' robe (Matt 9:20-22 ESV), that was the action (or work) she had to take in faith to get the response, "Daughter, take courage, your [type of] faith has made you well." [type of] mine. An active faith is what we need to live. If it's an inactive faith, or a dead faith, that means we are still not living, or dead. (Jas 2:14-26 ESV)

So the way I see active faith vs passive faith, is that you're not cooperating with your passive faith until you act, and it becomes active faith.

There was always a call to action when Jesus saw faith in a person. Take up your bed and walk, have Jesus say the word, touch the hem of his garment, extend your withered arm, pick up your cross and follow Me, pray, fast, worship, etc...

Jesus wouldn't condemn someone who didn't take action, but they would never have gotten Jesus' attention otherwise. And these are not works like good works are works. They are simply necessary life giving steps to make communication with God.

well said Jesus would like to see faith in action --- that we believers choose to do God's will above ours. That's the key to Christian faith. It means Picking up our crosses and denying ( the flesh) daily and Following the good Lord. It's a hard, hard call. Are YOU ready.... I am

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

How much good works do we need to do in order to get saved?

Is there a cosmic scale of justice that all of out works and deeds are sorted out...then placed on the proper side of the scale ....and the way in which it tips tells of our afterlife destination?

Do certain good works have more value that others?

Just how does this good works stuff actually work?

Should people work to obtain salvation or do good works because of their salvation?

Salvation or damnation was never in the hands of the believer. Its Gods call-- the best believer can do is obey. As simple as that. Many organizations/ even churches exceeded that and started playing God---- by guaranteeing salvation. Nobody can do that .... Book of revelation is very clear about that . Only those will be saved whose name was written in the Lambs book of life. One question: why has salvation become the most important aspect of Christianity ... why not love and obedience? Didn't Jesus say... all those who love their lives will lose it. But those who lose it for my sake and the sake of gospel will keep it
Mark 8:35
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

This is very true.
But does only love save?
I don't believe so. Even atheists feel love.
What if an atheist loves everything and everyone but has no faith?
1 Cor is correctly saying that their faith must represent God's love.

Who was Jesus addressing in His Largest teaching ( if not the best)in sermon on the mount? Was it only the disciples or was there a mixed lot----- believers , skeptics and just audience who wanted to hear Him out. If its NOT just the disciples then Jesus was giving Christian faith a whole new dimension----- Mahatma Gandhi, an avid reader of Bible ( and Jesus fan) thought Jesus was addressing everyone ( not just Chrsitians) through that magical sermon and amazing teaching--- not just His disciples ( Christians).

 

[Eugene]

Who was Jesus addressing in His Largest teaching (if not the best) in sermon on the mount?

The following excerpt is from a study “Matthew - Biography of the King.
http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Matthew - Biography of the King.pdf

"The Sermon on the mount" was not given to Christians. It is simply the law of Moses intensely spiritualized by One who understands its every requirement, and who knew what the holy law of God demanded. No honest heart who truly listens to the Sermon on the mount will ever claim righteousness by the keeping of it. When the times of "'restoration of all things" has come (Acts 3:21), then these requirements of Christ's kingdom will be enforced in the earth, when all men are under the sway and rule of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who was Jesus addressing in His Largest teaching ( if not the best)in sermon on the mount? Was it only the disciples or was there a mixed lot----- believers , skeptics and just audience who wanted to hear Him out. If its NOT just the disciples then Jesus was giving Christian faith a whole new dimension----- Mahatma Gandhi, an avid reader of Bible ( and Jesus fan) thought Jesus was addressing everyone ( not just Chrsitians) through that magical sermon and amazing teaching--- not just His disciples ( Christians).

Jesus was addressing many. There were persons all around Him.
Some were disciples, some were believers, some were non-believers and some were searching for the truth.

My point is that one could love all he wants to, if he does't have the spirit of God his love alone will not save him. UNLESS, he knows not about God, then God will judge him accordingly.
Romans 1:19-20

 

[th1b.taylor]

Absolutely right Creative . Martin Luther minimized importance of doing good works if you eject Christ as Savior. It's true that works won't save . But neither will faith without diligent obedience. That's absolutely important to understand for all Christians. Jesus clearly warns all fruitless Christians in Matthew 7: 19

well said Jesus would like to see faith in action --- that we believers choose to do God's will above ours. That's the key to Christian faith. It means Picking up our crosses and denying ( the flesh) daily and Following the good Lord. It's a hard, hard call. Are YOU ready.... I am

Faith is love and love causes action. Before I loved my wife I was not willing to undergo pain to accomplish her happiness and well being, after I loved and then married her those things are useless except I do all is to her advantage. Anything less and it is not love.

I have MS and one of te symptoms ED. When that occurred I saw the doctor and he taught me to inject a solution into it and when that began to also fail, with a good deal of pain in that area,the doctor installed hydraulics. Love means you will sacrifice for that person.

Just as I love my wife, she loves me. Now that this has taken me down, she is ferocious in guarding and caring for me. My marriage is a good reflection of the relationship with Jesus. I work the works I can do because I love and revere Jesus, not because there is some requirement to keep my salvation. That would be, IMO,akin to putting Him back on the cross, the idea is not scripturally sound.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Jesus was addressing many. There were persons all around Him.
Some were disciples, some were believers, some were non-believers and some were searching for the truth.

My point is that one could love all he wants to, if he does't have the spirit of God his love alone will not save him. UNLESS, he knows not about God, then God will judge him accordingly.
Romans 1:19-20

AMEN!

 

[Cygnus]

In your first post to me you asked why some do not want to be saved.
As if everyone should want to be saved.
I gave you a reason why maybe a person would NOT want to be saved -- which was that they enjoyed their sin. There are more reasons than that. For instance, not everyone believes God exists, so being saved means nothing to them.

Here, instead, you asked me how this "works thing" functions.
I believe I gave you a complete reply.

I'm not getting your two questions confused.

I was simply responding to this statement you made in an earlier post...."Jesus taught that we must be good people and do good works to be saved. Upon this we will be judged."

That's all.

 

[Traveling teacher]

Love from God .......recieved by faith
John 3:16
Love toward God shown by works.......
Love the Lord with all your heart soul mind and strength...is the greatest commandment
deuteronomy 6:5
matthew 22:37
love your neighbor as yourself.....
Love toward others shows you love God...
John 13:35
by this all men will know you are my disciples by your love for one another

 

[brujaq]

Faith is love and love causes action. Before I loved my wife I was not willing to undergo pain to accomplish her happiness and well being, after I loved and then married her those things are useless except I do all is to her advantage. Anything less and it is not love.

I have MS and one of te symptoms ED. When that occurred I saw the doctor and he taught me to inject a solution into it and when that began to also fail, with a good deal of pain in that area,the doctor installed hydraulics. Love means you will sacrifice for that person.

Just as I love my wife, she loves me. Now that this has taken me down, she is ferocious in guarding and caring for me. My marriage is a good reflection of the relationship with Jesus. I work the works I can do because I love and revere Jesus, not because there is some requirement to keep my salvation. That would be, IMO,akin to putting Him back on the cross, the idea is not scripturally sound.

''I work the works because I love and revere Jesus''
This is so on point taylor ..

There are those outside who don't fully understand living and existing in love and the results as we are encouraged to understand it in Spirit.. Our works can be falsely interpreted as lifeless and toil by those who do not understand the essence of being born again in Jesus .. You could say a spiritual labor of love given freely and cheerfully vs the labor that results from not whole heartedness of love but lukewarmness of performing duty or required for some kind of payment .. So when works are perceived or taught as necessary for salvation there are two types of works to consider .. One by law and one resulting naturally by spirit of love and desire to contribute by it (Hagar vs Sarah).. imo saying anything but ''saved by faith alone'' cheapens all of it and takes away from the beauty of Jesus kingdom and the liberty he gives .. Especially to the babes in Christ .. On the flip side we thank God for those who he sends to help us , admire the Jesus in them. Let them know your prayer was answered through them and that you thank the Lord for them.. Like I've told all the youth teams I've coached ''Guys, you don't have to run, you get to run''

 

[GodsGrace]

I was simply responding to this statement you made in an earlier post...."Jesus taught that we must be good people and do good works to be saved. Upon this we will be judged."

That's all.

Misunderstanding.
No problem.

I never use the term "good people". Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.
Mark 10:18

I must have said good deeds.
We are required to do good deeds as Jesus asked us to.
Mathew 5
Mathew 25

But not to be saved. Only faith saves.
After salvation, we do good deeds as God planned for us.
Ephesians 2:10

I'm repeating for those reading along to correct what you've stated about my previous post.

No problem with you.

 

[WIP]

But not to be saved. Only faith saves.
After salvation, we do good deeds as God planned for us.
Ephesians 2:10

Is if faith that saves or is it God that saves through faith?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8 NKJV

 

[GodsGrace]

Is if faith that saves or is it God that saves through faith?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8 NKJV

Hi WIP
Is that a trick question?

God saves us through faith.
Our faith in God saves us.

I don't see a difference.

 

[Cygnus]

Misunderstanding.
No problem.

I never use the term "good people". Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.
Mark 10:18

I must have said good deeds.
We are required to do good deeds as Jesus asked us to.
Mathew 5
Mathew 25

But not to be saved. Only faith saves.
After salvation, we do good deeds as God planned for us.
Ephesians 2:10

I'm repeating for those reading along to correct what you've stated about my previous post.

No problem with you.

I don't know if "required" to do good deeds as this now introduces a condition upon our salvation dependent upon something we need to do.

Perhaps good deeds will verify our salvation is a better way of saying it. Without quoting the entire chapter from 1st Cor 3:15....If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Sounds likes posible to do little work...and be saved....barely (if possible)

 

[WIP]

Hi WIP
Is that a trick question?

God saves us through faith.
Our faith in God saves us.

I don't see a difference.

Just making sure I put it together correctly. Not everyone that reads these threads understands and I want to be sure I understand correctly too. If we teach that faith saves we can confuse some to think that it is of what we do (having faith) that saves and not God. It is God that does the saving and it is through faith which also comes from God.

 

[WIP]

I don't know if "required" to do good deeds as this now introduces a condition upon our salvation dependent upon something we need to do.

Perhaps good deeds will verify our salvation is a better way of saying it. Without quoting the entire chapter from 1st Cor 3:15....If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Sounds likes posible to do little work...and be saved....barely (if possible)

Something that I see too often in our society today is that we teach about salvation and we stop there as though that is the end of our search as we have reached the goal. We get it in our head that we have achieved the gift of salvation and are then done but I propose that it is only the beginning. I believe we fail to consider the whole of Scripture and listen to everything Jesus taught about what it means to follow Him. Love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Love each other as we love ourselves. Follow His commandments. Be fruitful for others will know we are His disciples by our fruits. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.....who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Consider Titus 3:8. It just happens that this verse came up in my morning reading today.

This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. NKJV

 

[Randy]

RS is correct.
But you're starting to write pamphlets instead of comments, so I can't read it all.
Aren't you sorry 'bout that????

Before salvation works are useless.
After salvation works are necessary.

And please post your support of Jesus saying that we are saved by faith and not works.
I'm not going to a link, if you don't mind. We're not here to go to links.

All Jesus did was to talk of works.
Mathew 5
Mathew 25
John 15
and many more...

Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

John 4:10
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

Luke 23:43 Ask and receive
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Gal 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Hebrews 11 has many examples of actions prompted by faith a sincere faith but not one of righteousness obtained by works of the law.

Romans 1:17
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

What work did you do to have your sins forgiven?

A good tree doesn't bare bad fruit is in the context "by their fruit you will recognize them" So if one claims salvation but are baring bad fruit that is a sign they don't belong to Jesus despite what they may claim.

Zaccheus was a chief tax collector. But when Jesus approached him he was full of Joy and stated he would give half his possessions to the pour and if he cheated anybody he would pay them back 4 fold. Jesus saw this as a true sign of salvation. That is repentance and a pledge of a good conscience to the Lord.

And those who Love Jesus will obey Him and He and His Father will come and make their home with such a person.

Do you feel you have to keep up works to remain saved? Haven't you stopped sinning because you love the Lord? Don't you hear His voice? I tell you there are a great many in this world who don't.

The children are defined in REV as those who obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Paul was set aside at birth before he had done anything good or bad so I don't think he would preach a righteousness obtained from the works of the law but by the grace of God poured out through Christ Jesus. Jesus=>"This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for the many for the forgiveness of sin"

So those who are saved by grace will have good fruit prompted by a sincere faith. 1john states those born of God don't continue to sin.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Jesus was addressing many. There were persons all around Him.
Some were disciples, some were believers, some were non-believers and some were searching for the truth.

My point is that one could love all he wants to, if he does't have the spirit of God his love alone will not save him. UNLESS, he knows not about God, then God will judge him accordingly.
Romans 1:19-20

You're absolutely right wondering. And thank you very much everyone for welcoming me here. I personally do not think God will condemn any loving and sincere heart. Christ says whoever is not against us is for us. I strongly believe condemnation and salvation should not bother any true believer . Our job is to live by faith and obey the Lord . For His teachings and commandments are awesome