We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

[Cygnus]

Something that I see too often in our society today is that we teach about salvation and we stop there as though that is the end of our search as we have reached the goal. We get it in our head that we have achieved the gift of salvation and are then done but I propose that it is only the beginning. I believe we fail to consider the whole of Scripture and listen to everything Jesus taught about what it means to follow Him. Love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Love each other as we love ourselves. Follow His commandments. Be fruitful for others will know we are His disciples by our fruits. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.....who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Consider Titus 3:8. It just happens that this verse came up in my morning reading today.

This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. NKJV

I don't disagree.....but often we stop, look around us, look at what we just did, said or saw...and realize somehow we've slipped back into the flesh.

 

[Cygnus]

So those who are saved by grace will have good fruit prompted by a sincere faith. 1john states those born of God don't continue to sin.

I have to look at statements such as the above quote and wonder.

Everyone who I know...and I mean everyone....who claims to be born again continue to sin. The direct literal sense in which it is presented here is that no one is born of God....as all believers sin.

So, what is truly meant by the verse? What does "don't continue to sin".....truly mean?

 

[Free]

I personally do not think God will condemn any loving and sincere heart.

What do you mean by this? There is more than one way to understand that statement.

I strongly believe condemnation and salvation should not bother any true believer .

What do you mean by this?

 

[Free]

I never use the term "good people". Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.
Mark 10:18

Are you suggesting that Jesus isn’t good?

Looking at what other things Jesus said (all ESV):

Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 12:35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

Mat 22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Act 6:3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Act 11:24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.

Etc.

The Bible calls people good, so there is no reason for us not to do likewise.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you suggesting that Jesus isn’t good?

Looking at what other things Jesus said (all ESV):

Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 12:35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

Mat 22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Act 6:3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Act 11:24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.

Etc.

The Bible calls people good, so there is no reason for us not to do likewise.

How did you get that?
I'm suggesting man is not good.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Romans 3:10
Romans 3:23
Romans 5:12, 14 (12-20)

 

[GodsGrace]

Something that I see too often in our society today is that we teach about salvation and we stop there as though that is the end of our search as we have reached the goal. We get it in our head that we have achieved the gift of salvation and are then done but I propose that it is only the beginning. I believe we fail to consider the whole of Scripture and listen to everything Jesus taught about what it means to follow Him. Love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Love each other as we love ourselves. Follow His commandments. Be fruitful for others will know we are His disciples by our fruits. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.....who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Consider Titus 3:8. It just happens that this verse came up in my morning reading today.

This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. NKJV

 

[Free]

How did you get that?

From this: “Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.”

IF you want to make the argument from Mark 10:18 that we should not call man good, then it follows that we should not call Jesus good, since Jesus is quite specific.

I'm suggesting man is not good.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Romans 3:10
Romans 3:23
Romans 5:12, 14 (12-20)

And yet I have provided several verses where the Bible calls man good, including the words of Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

From this: “Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.”

IF you want to make the argument from Mark 10:18 that we should not call man good, then it follows that we should not call Jesus good, since Jesus is quite specific.


And yet I have provided several verses where the Bible calls man good, including the words of Jesus.

Jesus said it, not me.
He wanted to know why they were calling Him good since, HE said, only His Father is good.

So, I don't know, is Jesus contradicting Himself?
We see persons as saved and unsaved.
Does Jesus see persons as good and bad?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Just making sure I put it together correctly. Not everyone that reads these threads understands and I want to be sure I understand correctly too. If we teach that faith saves we can confuse some to think that it is of what we do (having faith) that saves and not God. It is God that does the saving and it is through faith which also comes from God.

Hi WIP, You make a good distinction about faith. There is cult like following of people that have allowed their idea that it is faith that saves alone, and have separated faith in Christ to faith in their own might. I have seen many a children (in news stories) where they would not take their sick children to the care of doctors, for all they needed was faith. And when the child died, their claim was that they just did not have enough faith! They think they can "conjure" up more faith from within. The true fact is, it takes faith (trust) in who the Christ is to start, then God increases our faith as we mature in grace. The poison snake handlers and those who drink poison have the same thought about faith. What a waste of a mans soul that test God with poison snakes, taking Mark 16:9-20 out of context, which are suspect Scriptures and are not in the oldest manuscripts.

 

[Cygnus]

From this: “Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.”

IF you want to make the argument from Mark 10:18 that we should not call man good, then it follows that we should not call Jesus good, since Jesus is quite specific.


And yet I have provided several verses where the Bible calls man good, including the words of Jesus.

Context, context, context.

 

[Free]

Context, context, context.

My point exactly.

 

[GodsGrace]

My point exactly.

So what's the context?

Everyone I know has the sin nature imbedded in them.
Jesus did not come to heal the well, He came to heal the sick.
After Adam, did we not all inherit the sin nature?

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

John 4:10
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

Luke 23:43 Ask and receive
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Gal 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Hebrews 11 has many examples of actions prompted by faith a sincere faith but not one of righteousness obtained by works of the law.

Romans 1:17
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

What work did you do to have your sins forgiven?

A good tree doesn't bare bad fruit is in the context "by their fruit you will recognize them" So if one claims salvation but are baring bad fruit that is a sign they don't belong to Jesus despite what they may claim.

Zaccheus was a chief tax collector. But when Jesus approached him he was full of Joy and stated he would give half his possessions to the pour and if he cheated anybody he would pay them back 4 fold. Jesus saw this as a true sign of salvation. That is repentance and a pledge of a good conscience to the Lord.

And those who Love Jesus will obey Him and He and His Father will come and make their home with such a person.

Do you feel you have to keep up works to remain saved? Haven't you stopped sinning because you love the Lord? Don't you hear His voice? I tell you there are a great many in this world who don't.

The children are defined in REV as those who obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Paul was set aside at birth before he had done anything good or bad so I don't think he would preach a righteousness obtained from the works of the law but by the grace of God poured out through Christ Jesus. Jesus=>"This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for the many for the forgiveness of sin"

So those who are saved by grace will have good fruit prompted by a sincere faith. 1john states those born of God don't continue to sin.

Paul was set aside at birth?
Are you a calvinist?

Since you bring up the New Covenant, would you mind telling me WHY the New Covenant was necessary?

If those who are saved by grace will automatically have good fruit, WHY did Jesus even talk about good fruit or good deeds?
Mathew 21:28-32
Mathew 13:21
Mathew 7:23
Mathew 7:19
Mathew 5:48
Mathew 5:17

And how do you explain
John 5:28-29 if everything after salvation is so automatic?

Yes. I feel I have to keep up good works to be saved.
Don't you? Do you wish to do bad works?

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know if "required" to do good deeds as this now introduces a condition upon our salvation dependent upon something we need to do.

Perhaps good deeds will verify our salvation is a better way of saying it. Without quoting the entire chapter from 1st Cor 3:15....If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Sounds likes posible to do little work...and be saved....barely (if possible)

God will know your heart.
I don't understand what the problem is with the word "required".
YES. We are required to do good works to remain saved.
Why else would Jesus and Paul and James exhort us to maintain doing good works?
It is definitely a condition.
James said faith without works is a dead faith.
He said that it's useless to pray for someone who is hungry or cold or needing anything.
He said we have TO DO something about it.
These are works. Jesus gave us works to do in Mathew 25.

We've become to entrenched in the idea of salvation, as if ONLY believing in Jesus and walking down an isle could save us.

NO. We are saved by faith.
We continue in our salvation by doing what JESUS instructed us to do: Good Works.

If this is not true, why have two different words to describe our salvation.
Would you care to explain them?
JUSTIFICATIOIN
SANCTIFICATION

 

[Cygnus]

My point exactly.

Yes, context....that was about calling people good. How that verse is often used...especially by those who claim Jesus isn't God.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes. I feel I have to keep up good works to be saved.
Don't you? Do you wish to do bad works?

Of course no one wants to do bad works? Right? We never choose to do bad.

In post 73 you said...
"But not to be saved. Only faith saves.
After salvation, we do good deeds as God planned for us.
Ephesians 2:10"

Then in this post you say...."I feel I have to keep up good works to be saved."

Do you see the problem?

 

[WIP]

Jesus said it, not me.
He wanted to know why they were calling Him good since, HE said, only His Father is good.

So, I don't know, is Jesus contradicting Himself?
We see persons as saved and unsaved.
Does Jesus see persons as good and bad?

Where in Scripture does it say that only the Father is good? Referring to the NKJV I see in both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 that it renders the verse to say that no one is good but God. Father is God and so is Jesus and the way I see this text, Jesus is not denying that He himself does not fit that definition. I see it as He affirming what the young ruler was claiming.

Maybe there are other translations that use Father instead of God?

 

[Randy]

Paul was set aside at birth?
Are you a calvinist?

Since you bring up the New Covenant, would you mind telling me WHY the New Covenant was necessary?

If those who are saved by grace will automatically have good fruit, WHY did Jesus even talk about good fruit or good deeds?
Mathew 21:28-32
Mathew 13:21
Mathew 7:23
Mathew 7:19
Mathew 5:48
Mathew 5:17

And how do you explain
John 5:28-29 if everything after salvation is so automatic?

Yes. I feel I have to keep up good works to be saved.
Don't you? Do you wish to do bad works?

No, I don't wish to sin for one I love the Lord but also have a heathy fear of the Lord Jesus -nothing is hidden from Him.
Paul set aside at birth- I am not a calvinist but I believe there are those few chosen by grace for Gods special purposes to fulfill His plans.
As Paul wrote -
Gal 1:15-17
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

So you believe we are saved or sanctified by faith? We are not free to sin and the Lords command is to love one another. Do that and you will remain in Jesus.

Please define good works you do to keep yourself forgiven.Your hope should be in the washing by the blood of the lamb. I believe those born of God don't continue to sin and hold to the testimony of Jesus. They have the spirit of christ in them and they cannot go on sinning as written in 1John the same John that wrote John

As I wrote Hebrews 11 givens several examples of actions prompted by a sincere faith but none of them were a righteousness obtained by the works of the law.

Jesus forgave the women that was caught in adultery but admonished her to leave her life of sin. She wasn't saved by works but by the loving kindness and mercy of Jesus. Likewise two asked something of Jesus and only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him. "I tell you the truth today you shall be with me in paradise" That mans faith saved Him.

And didn't Jesus approach Zacchaeus without Zacchaeus asking. I believe the Lord saw that He had faith to be saved. and Zacchaeus demonstrated a change of heart and a spirit of good will. Jesus implied that was a sign of true salvation. So it takes faith a change of heart (repentance) prompted by the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus.

 

[Randy]

Where in Scripture does it say that only the Father is good? Referring to the NKJV I see in both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 that it renders the verse to say that no one is good but God. Father is God and so is Jesus and the way I see this text, Jesus is not denying that He himself does not fit that definition. I see it as He affirming what the young ruler was claiming.

Maybe there are other translations that use Father instead of God?

Father - God is love. The one who sent Jesus and spoke through Jesus and commanded Jesus to sit at His right hand and raise us up on the last day.
Son-In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course no one wants to do bad works? Right? We never choose to do bad.

In post 73 you said...
"But not to be saved. Only faith saves.
After salvation, we do good deeds as God planned for us.
Ephesians 2:10"

Then in this post you say...."I feel I have to keep up good works to be saved."

Do you see the problem?

No problem.
I don't make up my own doctrine.
It's been taught to me by two different churches that taught me the same concept.

Not all concepts can be easily gleaned from reading the bible.
For instance, Paul uses the words justification and sanctification interchangeably...so it took theologians to separate the two and come up with something that made sense out of all he said. After all, Paul never thought his words would be so scrupulously examined.

So, again...
We are saved by FAITH alone. No amount of good works can save us.
OK
Now we enter into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus said that He came to establish a Kingdom.
Mathew 4:17

We are to repent. To change our direction. To go toward God. In the Beatitudes, Mathew 5, Jesus continues to tell us how we are to BEHAVE if we are to be members of the Kingdom of God.

So IF we want to remain in the Kingdom, we are required to follow the rules of that Kingdom.
The rules are that we are to do as Jesus commanded us --- to be of good behavior and to do good deeds.

Both Jesus and Paul spoke of the Kingdom.
Both could refer to either the Kingdom here on earth, or the Kingdom in heaven or the Kingdom that will come at the end of the age.

However, there is no doubt that Jesus intended to set up a heavenly Kingdom right here on earth as He told Nicodemus that one must be born from above to see it.
John 3:3

We can know this for sure because He spoke about the Kingdom more than He spoke about salvation.