We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

[WIP]

Father - God is love. The one who sent Jesus and spoke through Jesus and commanded Jesus to sit at His right hand and raise us up on the last day.
Son-In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.

Are you saying that when we sin it is always by accident?

 

[GodsGrace]

Where in Scripture does it say that only the Father is good? Referring to the NKJV I see in both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 that it renders the verse to say that no one is good but God. Father is God and so is Jesus and the way I see this text, Jesus is not denying that He himself does not fit that definition. I see it as He affirming what the young ruler was claiming.

Maybe there are other translations that use Father instead of God?

I believe in the Trinity or the Godhead.
Father
God
Jesus
Son of God
2nd person of the Trinity
Holy Spirit

To me they're all God.
It sounds like you're separating them...
JESUS said only God is good.
That means that only Jesus is good.
He was a man at the time that it was said to Him and He replied that only God is good.
No human is good.

 

[Free]

Not all concepts can be easily gleaned from reading the bible.
For instance, Paul uses the words justification and sanctification interchangeably...so it took theologians to separate the two and come up with something that made sense out of all he said. After all, Paul never thought his words would be so scrupulously examined.

That would be an argument for salvation by works. Do you see why your posts have confused not only me?

Can you show where Paul uses these two words interchangeably?

 

[Free]

No human is good.

I have given verses that state otherwise that you have still failed to address, or even acknowledge.

 

[WIP]

I believe in the Trinity or the Godhead.
Father
God
Jesus
Son of God
2nd person of the Trinity
Holy Spirit

To me they're all God.
It sounds like you're separating them...
JESUS said only God is good.
That means that only Jesus is good.
He was a man at the time that it was said to Him and He replied that only God is good.
No human is good.

No, I think you're misunderstanding. When you say only the Father is good, then you are by default singling out the Son, Jesus, as not good. God is good and God, being the trinity in completion, includes Jesus as well as the Father and Holy Spirit. They are all good according to how I understand Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. I think the use of the word "God" in the text is intentional.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I don't wish to sin for one I love the Lord but also have a heathy fear of the Lord Jesus -nothing is hidden from Him.
Paul set aside at birth- I am not a calvinist but I believe there are those few chosen by grace for Gods special purposes to fulfill His plans.
As Paul wrote -
Gal 1:15-17
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

So you believe we are saved or sanctified by faith? We are not free to sin and the Lords command is to love one another. Do that and you will remain in Jesus.

Please define good works you do to keep yourself forgiven.Your hope should be in the washing by the blood of the lamb. I believe those born of God don't continue to sin and hold to the testimony of Jesus. They have the spirit of christ in them and they cannot go on sinning as written in 1John the same John that wrote John

As I wrote Hebrews 11 givens several examples of actions prompted by a sincere faith but none of them were a righteousness obtained by the works of the law.

Jesus forgave the women that was caught in adultery but admonished her to leave her life of sin. She wasn't saved by works but by the loving kindness and mercy of Jesus. Likewise two asked something of Jesus and only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him. "I tell you the truth today you shall be with me in paradise" That mans faith saved Him.

And didn't Jesus approach Zacchaeus without Zacchaeus asking. I believe the Lord saw that He had faith to be saved. and Zacchaeus demonstrated a change of heart and a spirit of good will. Jesus implied that was a sign of true salvation. So it takes faith a change of heart (repentance) prompted by the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus.

I agree with all you've said.

When Jesus told the adultress woman to go and sin no more...
The sinning no more was a work to her. A good deed.
Sins could be by commission or omission.
A good deed could be by commission or omission.

What are good deeds?
What did YOU do today that was pleasing to God?
THAT was a good deed.

 

[GodsGrace]

That would be an argument for salvation by works. Do you see why your posts have confused not only me?

Can you show where Paul uses these two words interchangeably?

Sure.
But it requires some work and what would it change?
This can be learned by anyone. I'm not any more intelligent than you are.
WHY are there two words if they both mean the same concept?
See. It's easy.

So, I repeat, what does Justification mean and what does Sanctification mean?

They each mean something different. It's not important to show how they were used interchangeably (which they were as any theologian knows), but there's a reason why there are two different words.

THIS is the important part. Knowing what each one means.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I think you're misunderstanding. When you say only the Father is good, then you are by default singling out the Son, Jesus, as not good. God is good and God, being the trinity in completion, includes Jesus as well as the Father and Holy Spirit. They are all good according to how I understand Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. I think the use of the word "God" in the text is intentional.

How am I singling out Jesus if Jesus is God?
Don't you believe in the Trinity?

Jesus is saying that only God Father is good.
He was a man at the time. The hypostatic union also makes Him be God at all times.

Why do you think the word GOD is intentional?

 

[GodsGrace]

I have given verses that state otherwise that you have still failed to address, or even acknowledge.

I gave many verses from Romans showing how all men sin and are sinful.
If man was not sinful, there would have been no reason for Jesus to die.
If you choose not to acknowledge them, it's not me unwilling to post them, but you not reading them.

 

[Free]

So what's the context?

It's a rhetorical question that is intended, in part, to get the young man to think about who Jesus is. Which points us to what he meant by "no one is good but God alone." As with all things when spoken of about God, they take on there most absolute meaning relating to the perfection of God. Jesus is saying that no one is absolutely and perfectly good except God, and that is why it was right for the young man to call him good.

What that does not mean is that people are cannot also be called good, as there are even angels that are good. And this is evidenced by the several passages I gave in which people are called good.

Everyone I know has the sin nature imbedded in them.
Jesus did not come to heal the well, He came to heal the sick.
After Adam, did we not all inherit the sin nature?

Of course.

 

[Douglas Summers]

From this: “Only our Father in heaven is good, as Jesus stated.”

IF you want to make the argument from Mark 10:18 that we should not call man good, then it follows that we should not call Jesus good, since Jesus is quite specific.

Hi Free, I think Christ was making the distinction that If He was Good, He was just like God, for only God is good.

 

[Free]

I gave many verses from Romans showing how all men sin and are sinful.
If man was not sinful, there would have been no reason for Jesus to die.
If you choose not to acknowledge them, it's not me unwilling to post them, but you not reading them.

Of course those verses say such things but they don't address anything that I have said.

 

[Free]

Hi Free, I think Christ was making the distinction that If He was Good, He was just like God, for only God is good.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Randy]

I agree with all you've said.

When Jesus told the adultress woman to go and sin no more...
The sinning no more was a work to her. A good deed.
Sins could be by commission or omission.
A good deed could be by commission or omission.

What are good deeds?
What did YOU do today that was pleasing to God?
THAT was a good deed.

I feel quite comfortable in my salvation and don't seek good deeds to keep my salvation. I prayed for someone does that keep me saved?(smile)

 

[Randy]

Are you saying that when we sin it is always by accident?

The one born of God doesn't continue to sin. Thats what JOHN wrote. I expect John defined sin different then you do. As one can keep the commandments (9) as Jesus isn't enforcing keeping the Sabbath commandment with the addition of keep oneself from sexual immorality. Those can be kept. If you strain out a gnat in defining sin then everyone sins. I read we are NOT free to sin.

Randy

 

[Mike]

How am I singling out Jesus if Jesus is God?
Don't you believe in the Trinity?

Jesus is saying that only God Father is good.
He was a man at the time. The hypostatic union also makes Him be God at all times.

Why do you think the word GOD is intentional?

It sounds like you're still not seeing what Jesus was stating by His question in Luke 18:19. He wasn't saying "I'm not good, because only God is good." I'm not questioning your theology at all as some seem to be. In this exchange, He is making a claim of His deity. He was having the ruler think through his own statement that Jesus was Good and make the connection himself. You know only God is good, and you're calling me good, so..."

That's how I've always seen it.

 

[MCoop]

God will know your heart.
I don't understand what the problem is with the word "required".
YES. We are required to do good works to remain saved.
Why else would Jesus and Paul and James exhort us to maintain doing good works?
It is definitely a condition.
James said faith without works is a dead faith.
He said that it's useless to pray for someone who is hungry or cold or needing anything.
He said we have TO DO something about it.
These are works. Jesus gave us works to do in Mathew 25.

We've become to entrenched in the idea of salvation, as if ONLY believing in Jesus and walking down an isle could save us.

NO. We are saved by faith.
We continue in our salvation by doing what JESUS instructed us to do: Good Works.

If this is not true, why have two different words to describe our salvation.
Would you care to explain them?
JUSTIFICATIOIN
SANCTIFICATION

Justification comes by way of faith alone. As Luther and many other reformers taught. “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..” Romans 5:1. A person is declared righteous or just in Gods sight only because of the righteousness of Christ. This is the gospel! “.. so also by one Mans obedience many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:19. “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.... But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.. Romans 4:3,5. It is Christ’s righteousness alone that justifies. Your merits means nothing towards your justification. The merits of Christ brings redemption. And that imputed by faith alone. As Christ being a Substitute for His sheep, He bore their wrath and shed His blood to bring forgiveness by bearing their sin on the cross. So therefore, it those who believe and rest in this truth by faith, that Christ righteousness is imputed by Gods Sovereign grace. The result of this justification is always sanctification. This is an absolute. Being set apart from sin, all believers desire to live holy and obedient lives as .. we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, for which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. By way of regeneration by Gods power and Spirit, and that by the election of grace, this salvation and work of sanctification comes to the repentant sinner. To say we are required to do good works to remain saved is a contradiction of the gospel that saves. If one has to maintain good works to remain saved, then Christ righteousness that justifies is worthless and is void with no value. And that person sees his own righteous deeds as justification before God. And ultimately demonstrates no faith at all in the gospel of Christ. That’s a hard truth but that’s a fact. Luther exposed this and why the main protest against the RCC was on this issue of how one is just or justified before God. By ones righteous deeds or by the righteousness of Christ received by faith alone? You can’t have it both ways. RCC teaches works based salvation which is opposed to the gospel and scriptures. Gods people cry out for mercy and rest in the person of Christ and His merits of righteousness alone, to justify their wretched self before a Holy God. This is what is meant when Luther says salvation is by faith alone. No faith in self but Christ alone!

 

[GodsGrace]

Justification comes by way of faith alone. As Luther and many other reformers taught. “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..” Romans 5:1. A person is declared righteous or just in Gods sight only because of the righteousness of Christ. This is the gospel! “.. so also by one Mans obedience many will be made righteous.” Romans 5:19. “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.... But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.. Romans 4:3,5. It is Christ’s righteousness alone that justifies. Your merits means nothing towards your justification. The merits of Christ brings redemption. And that imputed by faith alone. As Christ being a Substitute for His sheep, He bore their wrath and shed His blood to bring forgiveness by bearing their sin on the cross. So therefore, it those who believe and rest in this truth by faith, that Christ righteousness is imputed by Gods Sovereign grace. The result of this justification is always sanctification. This is an absolute. Being set apart from sin, all believers desire to live holy and obedient lives as .. we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, for which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. By way of regeneration by Gods power and Spirit, and that by the election of grace, this salvation and work of sanctification comes to the repentant sinner. To say we are required to do good works to remain saved is a contradiction of the gospel that saves. If one has to maintain good works to remain saved, then Christ righteousness that justifies is worthless and is void with no value. And that person sees his own righteous deeds as justification before God. And ultimately demonstrates no faith at all in the gospel of Christ. That’s a hard truth but that’s a fact. Luther exposed this and why the main protest against the RCC was on this issue of how one is just or justified before God. By ones righteous deeds or by the righteousness of Christ received by faith alone? You can’t have it both ways. RCC teaches works based salvation which is opposed to the gospel and scriptures. Gods people cry out for mercy and rest in the person of Christ and His merits of righteousness alone, to justify their wretched self before a Holy God. This is what is meant when Luther says salvation is by faith alone. No faith in self but Christ alone!

(try using paragraphs)
You got justification ok.
What about sanctification?
I don't think I saw it up there.

 

[Randy]

(try using paragraphs)
You got justification ok.
What about sanctification?
I don't think I saw it up there.

I dont hold to a 2nd act of grace that changes my being. Only the gift the Father promised - the new creation - Christ in us -therefore any seasoning would come by experience and wisdom learned
1cor 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[WIP]

How am I singling out Jesus if Jesus is God?
Don't you believe in the Trinity?

Jesus is saying that only God Father is good.
He was a man at the time. The hypostatic union also makes Him be God at all times.

Why do you think the word GOD is intentional?

Because Jesus is not the Father. Both are God, yes, but Jesus is not the Father and the Father is not Jesus. What I'm suggesting is that when you say that only the Father is good, you are denying Jesus' and the Holy Spirit's goodness. When you say only God is good, then you are encompassing all three.

Also, can you show me where Scripture is translated that Jesus says only the Father is good? All translations that I am familiar with render Mark 10:18 as only God is good. Nothing about the Father specifically.

Let me try another angle. Using your analogy, then it would be correct to say that the Father came in the flesh, was crucified, buried, and rose again but it was Jesus that did this, not the Father.