What do we believe about the Resurrection?

[ezrider]

I think the scripture from Matthew 28:8-10 should confirm without a doubt that Mary and the other women touched and held Jesus feet on the very same day that He was risen, and like I said in the post above, I think their belief played a pretty large factor in the matter.

With that said I still can't help but think that there still might be some significance between Jesus appearing in the upper room on the first day and then again on the eight day, and how that might connected to the cleansing of the alter as written in Ezekiel 43:26:27.

 

[ezrider]

Because Jesus knew all things, and knowing all things He knew Thomas wouldn't touch Him, but simply believe.

Because you have seen Me, and believed....

Jesus didn't say because you have touched me and believed.

That's the answer!

Because you have seen Me and believed. That is not something that was said to his praise, but rather to his shame; So let me explain.

If I should think that I tell you of a truth as it is given to me by the Spirit of the Lord, should I really expect you to believe my report? Now think about this: Jesus appeared before Mary at the Sepulchre and she supposed him to be a gardener, then he made himself known to her. On her way to tell the disciple the news, Jesus appears to the women on the road again and they immediately knew him for who he was. When the women came to the disciples and told them all that they saw and heard, the disciples did not believe their report. So when Jesus came in the upper room to dine with them, they still supposed him to be a stranger; that is until he break bread and they knew him.

Then when we get to to the story with Thomas eight days later, not only did he have a chance to hear the report of the women, but he had also had the opportunity to hear the same report from the mouths of the other eleven disciples, and yet he still would not believe. Thomas only believed after he saw for himself with his own eye's. He is known as doubting Thomas because he did not believe without first seeing. Because you have seen Me and believed is to his shame.

John 20:24-25 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[Free]

Because you have seen Me and believed. That is not something that was said to his praise, but rather to his shame; So let me explain.
...
Then when we get to to the story with Thomas eight days later, not only did he have a chance to hear the report of the women, but he had also had the opportunity to hear the same report from the mouths of the other eleven disciples, and yet he still would not believe. Thomas only believed after he saw for himself with his own eye's. He is known as doubting Thomas because he did not believe without first seeing. Because you have seen Me and believed is to his shame.

Although that is a common sentiment, I don't see how that can be the case. None of the disciples believed until they saw Jesus. Just look at Luke 24:10-11. According to Vincent's Word Studies, the Greek word translated as "idle tale" literally means "silly talk" or "nonsense." It is used only here in the NT but was "used in medical language of the wild talk of delirium."

Not to mention that women were not considered reliable or credible eyewitnesses, so of course Thomas wouldn't believe them, and neither would the other male disciples. Look also at Mark 16:10-14--not only were the women not believed, neither were two other disciples, and Jesus rebuked the rest of them for their unbelief. Some even still doubted after all of this--Matt 28:17.

 

[ezrider]

Although that is a common sentiment, I don't see how that can be the case.

Not sure what you mean by this. I am not clear as to what you don't see as being the case. Can you explain?
I can accept that they wouldn't believe the women, but Thomas refusing to believe the closest of his male companions in the other eleven disciples, that says something.

 

[gracenote]

Here is an interesting thought to consider:

When Mary was at the sepulchre she did not know Jesus, but supposed him to be the gardener (John 20:15-17). Here we find were Jesus tells her to touch Him not, for he has not yet ascended. But to go and tell the brethren that He is ascending to the Father (John 20:16-18). Now whether He ascended at that point and then returned to meet the women on the road again the scripture is not clear on. But the interesting thought that I have is in the account in Matthew 28:8-10 where the women had rushed off from the sepulchre to go tell the disciples all that the heard and saw, and then Jesus meets them again on the road as they are on their way to go tell the disciples. Jesus appears unto them again, yet this time they knew Him for who he was, for he knew that they believed without any doubts. What can be said for the disciples on the other hand, well that is another story, for three times did Jesus appear unto them after that He had risen, and each time they did not know who he was.

It's like seeing the scripture in a new, fresh way.
I am so glad I joined this thread!

 

[Free]

Not sure what you mean by this. I am not clear as to what you don't see as being the case. Can you explain?
I can accept that they wouldn't believe the women, but Thomas refusing to believe the closest of his male companions in the other eleven disciples, that says something.

I don't think at all that what Jesus said to Thomas was to his shame. That doesn't make sense given that pretty much all of them doubted until they saw Jesus. At least one of the disciples on the road to Emmaus was a man. The fact that Jesus rebuked the eleven says something.

 

[ezrider]

I don't think at all that what Jesus said to Thomas was to his shame. That doesn't make sense given that pretty much all of them doubted until they saw Jesus. At least one of the disciples on the road to Emmaus was a man. The fact that Jesus rebuked the eleven says something.

I agree that nowhere does the scripture infer this was to his shame, nor does it say it was to his praise. The lesson was blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. I was merely using the phrase to his shame in contrast to the idea of praise for believing because he had seen without first believing.

 

[WIP]

Here is an interesting thought to consider:

When Mary was at the sepulchre she did not know Jesus, but supposed him to be the gardener (John 20:15-17). Here we find were Jesus tells her to touch Him not, for he has not yet ascended. But to go and tell the brethren that He is ascending to the Father (John 20:16-18). Now whether He ascended at that point and then returned to meet the women on the road again the scripture is not clear on. But the interesting thought that I have is in the account in Matthew 28:8-10 where the women had rushed off from the sepulchre to go tell the disciples all that the heard and saw, and then Jesus meets them again on the road as they are on their way to go tell the disciples. Jesus appears unto them again, yet this time they knew Him for who he was, for he knew that they believed without any doubts. What can be said for the disciples on the other hand, well that is another story, for three times did Jesus appear unto them after that He had risen, and each time they did not know who he was.

You've made some good points to ponder here. Thank you!

 

[ezrider]

Luke 24:25-27 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Again, at this point as they walk along the road they thought this man to be a stranger. Not even though they had accompanied Jesus for three years, it took a stranger to explain to them all things from the law through the prophets that concerned the coming of Christ. And though he a had expounded unto them of all thing that pertained to him, they still did not perceive him for who he was. To them he was but a stranger that they invite to tarry with them.

Luke 24:28-31 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

There eyes were held while a stranger taught them, and only after he break bread with them were there eyes opened and they knew him, and then he immediately vanished from their sight.

Luke 24:32-35 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

 

[ezrider]

Luke 24:36-43 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.

Here again, we are on the same day the Jesus had risen, and we find here that he again invited the disciples to handle him. But is there a pattern here? Like Mary who did not know him at first, she was told not to touch, but when he appeared unto her the second time she believed and we find she held his feet (Matt 28:8-10). Now with Simon when he knew who he was the first time Jesus made himself known he immediately vanished out of sight. The second time he appeared to them, he invites them to handle him; as the women did.

 

[ezrider]

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus reminds them that these are the words which he had said unto them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Luke 24:45-47 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke simply says that he opened their understanding, but if we look in the book of John, we will find that Jesus breathed onto them the Holy Spirit, and that is how he opened their understanding.

John 20:19-23 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Even when Jesus was present before them, before their very eyes, where they were invited to touch him and handle him that they might believe, it is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures may be opened for one to understand. And without the Holy Spirit opening the understanding of the scriptures to us, then all we hold are the doctrines of men

 

[ezrider]

I have had a very large project dropped onto my lap that wasn't going so well, and now I have been asked to come in and make it all right. I have been working extreme and long hours to get this project back on schedule, and I have been under a significant amount of stress, some of which I have not handled very well; for my girlfriend swore she saw me spitting fire, what ever that is supposed to mean. The stress and the pressure of the job has bore heavily on my frustrations, and I am afraid my patience has worn mighty thin at the moment. Thankfully, the Lord has given me the strength to see the first major milestone of the project to be completed successfully and on time. This is this is the first weekend in a while I have had the opportunity to relax and unwind, and I thought I might pick up where I left off in the thread.

But as I told you already, my patience is worn pretty thin, and I do not know if anyone even wishes for me to continue with it or not? If no one shows any interest in this topic, or me continuing with this topic, then I ask myself what is the point. If everyone wants to place me on their ignore list so they don't have to see my posts, then I am talking to an empty room. And if I am talking to an empty room, am I wasting my time, throwing my pearls before swine, or both? I don't know, that is yet for me to learn.

If no one bothers to respond to this thread, or if all I am met with are those who have declared themselves to be my adversary, then there is no reason for me to continue on, and I shall skip the promise of his second coming by the power of the resurrection and instead bring it to its swift and final conclusion. Cast it into the lake of Fire.

 

[OzSpen]

I have had a very large project dropped onto my lap that wasn't going so well, and now I have been asked to come in and make it all right. I have been working extreme and long hours to get this project back on schedule, and I have been under a significant amount of stress, some of which I have not handled very well; for my girlfriend swore she saw me spitting fire, what ever that is supposed to mean. The stress and the pressure of the job has bore heavily on my frustrations, and I am afraid my patience has worn mighty thin at the moment. Thankfully, the Lord has given me the strength to see the first major milestone of the project to be completed successfully and on time. This is this is the first weekend in a while I have had the opportunity to relax and unwind, and I thought I might pick up where I left off in the thread.

But as I told you already, my patience is worn pretty thin, and I do not know if anyone even wishes for me to continue with it or not? If no one shows any interest in this topic, or me continuing with this topic, then I ask myself what is the point. If everyone wants to place me on their ignore list so they don't have to see my posts, then I am talking to an empty room. And if I am talking to an empty room, am I wasting my time, throwing my pearls before swine, or both? I don't know, that is yet for me to learn.

If no one bothers to respond to this thread, or if all I am met with are those who have declared themselves to be my adversary, then there is no reason for me to continue on, and I shall skip the promise of his second coming by the power of the resurrection and instead bring it to its swift and final conclusion. Cast it into the lake of Fire.

ez,

I'm interested in discussing the resurrection but I'm not interested in pursuing the very lengthy posts you gave in the first 2 posts of this thread. If you want to engage me, be brief and get to the point about what you want to discuss about Jesus' resurrection.

It's over to you. What do you want to pick up and run with in resurrection issues?

Oz

 

[JLB]

I have had a very large project dropped onto my lap that wasn't going so well, and now I have been asked to come in and make it all right. I have been working extreme and long hours to get this project back on schedule, and I have been under a significant amount of stress, some of which I have not handled very well; for my girlfriend swore she saw me spitting fire, what ever that is supposed to mean. The stress and the pressure of the job has bore heavily on my frustrations, and I am afraid my patience has worn mighty thin at the moment. Thankfully, the Lord has given me the strength to see the first major milestone of the project to be completed successfully and on time. This is this is the first weekend in a while I have had the opportunity to relax and unwind, and I thought I might pick up where I left off in the thread.

But as I told you already, my patience is worn pretty thin, and I do not know if anyone even wishes for me to continue with it or not? If no one shows any interest in this topic, or me continuing with this topic, then I ask myself what is the point. If everyone wants to place me on their ignore list so they don't have to see my posts, then I am talking to an empty room. And if I am talking to an empty room, am I wasting my time, throwing my pearls before swine, or both? I don't know, that is yet for me to learn.

If no one bothers to respond to this thread, or if all I am met with are those who have declared themselves to be my adversary, then there is no reason for me to continue on, and I shall skip the promise of his second coming by the power of the resurrection and instead bring it to its swift and final conclusion. Cast it into the lake of Fire.

Glad you are seeing some success in your project.

I hope and pray you have a peaceful and relaxing long weekend.

May God bless you with His peace and love, and refill you with His Spirit.

I pray that God will give you wisdom to express His eternal truth's to this forum.

Could you please summarize in a couple of sentences the point you feel is the most important, in this thread?

Thanks and God bless you.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this:for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is a resurrection to life, and a resurrection to death and damnation. Which resurrection are you prepared for?

damnation:
g2920. κρίσις krisis; decision ( subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice ( especially, divine law): — accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.
AV ( 48)- judgment 41, damnation 3, accusation 2, condemnation 2;
a separating, sundering, separation a trial, contest selection judgment opinion or decision given concerning anything esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment the college of judges ( a tribunal of seven men in the several cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin, which had its seat at Jerusalem) right, justice.

In the resurrection of damnation you will find yourself before the white throne Judgement where you shall face the second death and the lake of fire.

 

[JLB]

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this:for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is a resurrection to life, and a resurrection to death and damnation. Which resurrection are you prepared for?

damnation:
g2920. κρίσις krisis; decision ( subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice ( especially, divine law): — accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.
AV ( 48)- judgment 41, damnation 3, accusation 2, condemnation 2;
a separating, sundering, separation a trial, contest selection judgment opinion or decision given concerning anything esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment the college of judges ( a tribunal of seven men in the several cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin, which had its seat at Jerusalem) right, justice.

In the resurrection of damnation you will find yourself before the white throne Judgement where you shall face the second death and the lake of fire.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:31-46



JLB

 

[OzSpen]

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:31-46



JLB

Quoting a series of verses like this from Matt 25:31-46 does not tell me the points you are wanting to make. I do wish you would engage with us in conversation rather than simply giving us a copy and paste from the Bible.

 

[OzSpen]

(Post removed for incorrect assumptions of plagiarism. Obadiah)

 

[ezrider]

(Post removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

Quoting a series of verses like this from Matt 25:31-46 does not tell me the points you are wanting to make. I do wish you would engage with us in conversation rather than simply giving us a copy and paste from the Bible.

Here is Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus details the resurrection of life and damnation.


JLB