What do we believe about the Resurrection?

[WIP]

What this guy said.
It is my belief that scripture speaks of multiple resurrections (NOT REINCARNATION), some in the past, and at least one more in the future. I believe the "1st Resurrection" written about in Revelation has already transpired and that it was the saints of the 1st century and perhaps the faithful of old who were party to this resurrection. They may very well represent what scripture calls the "firstfruits" and it is them who the 2nd death has no power over. For all the rest of humanity, I believe a future resurrection follows, but that will be a resurrection unto judgment when we will live and our destiny will be determined based on our resurrected lives and at that time we will be presented with the opportunity to be sealed by God's Holy Spirit just as the 1st century saints were. Those of us who follow after righteousness and are bless with the seal will be the one who are referred to as those who are resurrected to live, age lasting while the others will face judgment and the wrath of the living God.

What you believe is one thing but what scripture do you have to support your beliefs? Please review the forum guidelines found at the top of this forum.

 

[The Light]

What you believe is one thing but what scripture do you have to support your beliefs? Please review the forum guidelines found at the top of this forum.

The belief is based on scripture WIP.
John 5 and Ephesians 4 for starters.

 

[Obadiah]

The Light, please read the forum guidelines as you were instructed to do by an administrator. The guidelines require that you cite specific scripture that is relevant to the thread, as you will notice was done in the post that you quoted in your post. Unless you can articulate how every single verse in a chapter is specifically relevant, you can not simply cite large portions of scripture (such as whole chapters) to meet this requirement. This puts an unnecessary and unfair burden on other readers to try to figure out which part of those large portions of scripture you are actually referring to.

 

[The Light]

What does the Bible teach us about what life will be like after the last resurrection? Jesus said to the Sadducees in Luke 20:34-38 that in the resurrection men would not marry but be as the messengers of God. Little more is said about this life other than what is written in Revelation 22 and there in verse 5 it says that the saints that inheritied the Holy City would rule as kings for ages of ages. Who will they rule over is the curiousity.

From a cursory reading of the last 3 chapter of Revelation it would appear that there are people living outside of the Holy City that will still be affected by an imperfect existence to the point where they'll need to approach the city to receive healing on perhaps a monthly basis (revelation 22:2). Is it possible that the saints will be ruling over these people for ages and ages?

What this guy said is very striking.


It is my belief that scripture speaks of multiple resurrections (NOT REINCARNATION), some in the past, and at least one more in the future. See John 5:28-29: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
and John 6:40: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I believe the "1st Resurrection" written about in Revelation 20:4-7 has already transpired and that it was the Holy-Spirit sealed saints of the 1st century, (spoken of in 1 Cor 15:28 and Eph 4). They may very well represent what scripture calls the "firstfruits" and it is them who the 2nd death has no power over. For all the rest of humanity, I believe a future resurrection follows, (as spoken of by Job in Job 14:12-14 as well as Samuel's mother in 1 Samuel 2:7, 8), but that will be a resurrection unto judgment (John 5:28-29) when we will live and our destiny will be determined based on our resurrected lives and at that time we will be presented with the opportunity to be sealed by God's Holy Spirit just as the 1st century saints were. Those of us who follow after righteousness and are bless with the seal will be the one who are referred to as those who are resurrected to live, age lasting while the others will face judgment and the wrath of the living God.

 

[OzSpen]

What this guy said.
It is my belief that scripture speaks of multiple resurrections (NOT REINCARNATION), some in the past, and at least one more in the future. I believe the "1st Resurrection" written about in Revelation has already transpired and that it was the saints of the 1st century and perhaps the faithful of old who were party to this resurrection. They may very well represent what scripture calls the "firstfruits" and it is them who the 2nd death has no power over. For all the rest of humanity, I believe a future resurrection follows, but that will be a resurrection unto judgment when we will live and our destiny will be determined based on our resurrected lives and at that time we will be presented with the opportunity to be sealed by God's Holy Spirit just as the 1st century saints were. Those of us who follow after righteousness and are bless with the seal will be the one who are referred to as those who are resurrected to live, age lasting while the others will face judgment and the wrath of the living God.

I find it disconcerting when you do not demonstrate your points from Scripture so that we have specific points of discussion/debate with you. Why don't you provide Scripture for your points, along with a brief explanation.

I urge you not to make it too long because you'll lose me.

 

[JohnD]

Messianic Rabbi Larry Feldman gives (IMHO) the best description of resurrection. He first qualifies the raisings from the dead of Lazarus and others not as resurrections but restorations. They are restored to the same fallen nature bodies they had in death. They were not raised in their forever form. That cleared up questions I had for years about whether we go to heaven in death as many mainline denominations teach. We do, as believers in Christ, go to be with the Lord the moment we die but the text that states this clearly says it is as disembodied spirits.

2 Corinthians 5:1–8 (AV)
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Understand that this is not saying we will shuck these bodies and get replacement bodies. Because you must consider along with this:

Romans 8:23 (AV)
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

And Jesus is the firstfruits / firstborn of the dead (Colossians 1:18). And in that regard, physically, we will be like him (1 John 3:2).

So, until the general resurrection (Revelation 20:11-15 which focuses primarily on the lost but the time frame for all human resurrection is the same) only Jesus is the one resurrected man. When the general resurrection takes place the dead in Christ will rise first and the rest of us will join Jesus in the upper air and be with him forever (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

As to what happens next, there is much speculation (and that is all it is) how the New Heaven-Earth will be that replaces the current (separate) heavens and earth, because this new creation will be where we spend forever with God (Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66, 2 Peter 3, Revelation 21).

Hope this helps.

When we see what is in scripture rather than what we think is in scripture or what we want to be in scripture it's all really very simple and very practical.

 

[ezrider]

1 Corinthians 2:1-5 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

As concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Paul who was a Pharisee and a learned scholar of the old testament scriptures and Jewish customs before his conversion, determined himself to know nothing except Jesus Christ and him crucified. Can you determine to know nothing among yourself except the resurrection of Christ and the promises that come thereby?

 

[ezrider]

Hebrews 11:32-35 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection.

This is interesting. What do you suppose this to be? That they might obtain a better resurrection. A better resurrection.

What is this better resurrection that we are to look for?

Romans 6:5-11 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[ezrider]

From the beginning of this thread and my initial OP, there has been a lot of push back, in making claims that I am denying that there is a resurrection at the last Day. And as much as I tried to explain to the contrary, they would not accept my explanation. But the OP was not a focus on the resurrection at the last day, but rather a focus on the Resurrection of Christ, and what Jesus meant when he said I AM THE RESURRECTION. The intent was to focus on the promises offered unto us today by His Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance, which is life in the resurrection of Christ. We are to walk in the reality of being resurrected already with Christ so that we may achieve unto the better resurrection (Heb 11:35) as we are formed in the image of His Resurrection (Rom 6:5); until the redemption of the purchased possession at the last day.

 

[ezrider]

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance, which is life in the resurrection of Christ. We are to walk in the reality of being resurrected already with Christ so that we may achieve unto the better resurrection (Heb 11:35) as we are formed in the image of His Resurrection (Rom 6:5); until the redemption of the purchased possession at the last day.

I have been thinking upon this scripture from Eph 1:13 quite a lot today, and then something dawned on that I have never considered. The Promise throughout the prophets, as well as the promise made by Jesus himself, was that he would send forth the Comforter, the Holy Spirit to come and dwell within our hearts. But this is just the earnest, or a portion of our inheritance, until the time of redemption. Now think of the story of the Prodigal Son.

Luke 15:11-24 And he said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat:and no man gave unto him. And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

This is a parable of the kingdom of heaven, where we find the younger son taking his inheritance and then going out into the world and spent it on riotous living. The younger son in this case is represented by Joseph and the House of Israel, for the promise of the inheritance was given unto Joseph through his blessing. But what of the older brother?

Luke 15:25-29 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends.

The older brother I should point out, did not take of his inheritance, nor did he think he had any sin, as he has claimed to not has transgressed the commandment. He denies his own transgressions. The elder brother is representative of Judah and the House of Judah, which did not receive the inheritance as his blessing, but rather received the sceptre, so that he should rule according to the law and commandments.

The elder brother has never tasted the gift of the promise, but the younger brother has. When you tire of the scraps that the world has been feeding you, or the chance piece of bread that falls your way that sustains you for a day, know that the Grace of God is greater than all of your sins and shame; For as soon as the Lord see's you coming from a long way off, the He sends forth the Holy Spirit to come forth and greet you, that He may walk the rest of the way home with you.

In a way the story of the Prodigal Son makes me think of the movie Brewster's Millions, where in order to receive the larger inheritance bequeathed unto him, he had to squander a smaller yet substantial inheritance so that he would understand the true value of what was being given to him as his inheritance.

 

[dianegcook]

Resurrection can mean several things.
Strong's #386 Greek
A standing up again, a resurrection from death,
A moral recovery of spiritual truth, rising again, rise from the dead.
Rev.20:5,6
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished. (The spiritually dead, no spiritual truth)
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death (death of soul) hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a 1000 years.
The overcomers, they had spiritual truth.

1Thess.4:14-17
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
He is coming here to reign, and as the verses in Rev. Above, we will reign with Him, 1000 years.
The dead in Christ rise first, yep, they are already there, and coming back with Him.
Then those which are alive and remain will be caught up with them, meet the Lord in the air.

Air, Strong's #109, Greek,
To breathe, breath, spirit

Meet the Lord in the Spiritual.
Ever hear dead man walking?
Like Ezek.37:
They had no spiritual truth.Ezek:37:9 , Prophesy unto them.....God's Word brings life!

1Cor.15:53
For this corruptible (flesh) must put on incorruptible (spiritual) , and this mortal (liable to die soul) must put on immortalality. (Deathlessness)

My take :nod

 

[ezrider]

Is no one interested in having a thoughtful discussion about the resurrection, and what the resurrection of Christ means for us? No one wants to discuss how we might obtain unto a better resurrection (Heb 11:35) by being formed in the likeness of his resurrection (Rom 6:5) by the promise of the Spirit (Eph 1:13)?

You shall meet the second death soon enough, but before that, as it pertains to the resurrection of Christ, we should look at the events that transpired right after his resurrection and his interactions and appearances as witnessed by his disciples and recorded for our edification.

The scripture records that Jesus appeared alive with his disciples for 40 days after his resurrection. All that is recorded of these 40 days that I am aware of can be found in Luke 24, John 20-21 and Acts 1. We should look at these scriptures to see what Jesus taught the disciples during this time of his resurrection.

Now before we delve into these scriptures I must first point out one thing that you should consider very deeply within yourselves. The disciples and the others that followed Jesus: they knew him after the manner of his flesh, they knew him has a man. They ate with him and drank with him. They witnessed his miracles and were given power to heal the sick as well. They heard the gospel message directly from the lips of Jesus, and they were given yet private instruction from the master's lips. They were sent out to preach the gospel of the kingdom, they saw Lazarus rise from the dead. And yet for all that they saw and heard, you will find when he appeared to them after his resurrection, on multiple occasions, and they did not know who he was.

 

[ezrider]

John 20:13-15 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

Right after he had arisen, Mary did not know him, and thought him to be the gardener.

 

[ezrider]

John 20:16-18 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Mary, being the first to be revealed to the risen Christ, was told to touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But he also gave her a command, to go and say unto my brethren that I ascend unto my Father.

This being the case, it would appear to me that Mary was the only one to witness Jesus after he had arise but before he had ascended to the Father. She was told to go tell the disciples that he has ascended to the Father. When Jesus returns again and appears to the disciples, he had already ascended to the Father and then returned to appear before them.

 

[JLB]

When Jesus returns again and appears to the disciples, he had already ascended to the Father and then returned to appear before them.

Jesus ascended to heaven as recorded in Acts 1 -

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11

JLB

 

[JLB]

No one wants to discuss how we might obtain unto a better resurrection

To obtain a better resurrection, one must refuse deliverance in the face of torture and death.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[f] were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. Hebrews 11:35-38


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Jesus ascended to heaven as recorded in Acts 1 -

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11

JLB

While it is true that it is recorded in Acts 1 that Jesus was taken up into heaven, it does not preclude any other times that he appeared or disappeared, ascended or descended from the heavens. All Acts 1 states is that at the end of the 40 days, he was taken up into heaven.

Now if you would, could you please explain for me in your own words exactly what is was you actually saw when Jesus was taken up into heaven, that I might know what to look for?

And while your at it, would you please explain why Jesus told Mary to say to the disciples, I ascend unto my Father, as it is written in John 20:16-18? Why did Jesus say touch me not for I am not yet ascended, but go and tell my brethren that I have ascended to my Father?

 

[ezrider]

To obtain a better resurrection, one must refuse deliverance in the face of torture and death.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[f] were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. Hebrews 11:35-38


JLB

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The better resurrection involves receiving the Spirit of Promise. Except you receive the Spirit of Promise, you can not be made perfect.

 

[JLB]

While it is true that it is recorded in Acts 1 that Jesus was taken up into heaven, it does not preclude any other times that he appeared or disappeared, ascended or descended from the heavens. All Acts 1 states is that at the end of the 40 days, he was taken up into heaven.

Now if you would, could you please explain for me in your own words exactly what is was you actually saw when Jesus was taken up into heaven, that I might know what to look for?

And while your at it, would you please explain why Jesus told Mary to say to the disciples, I ascend unto my Father, as it is written in John 20:16-18? Why did Jesus say touch me not for I am not yet ascended, but go and tell my brethren that I have ascended to my Father?

Acts 1 clearly states Jesus was taken up, ascended to heaven, after the 40 days...

JLB

 

[ezrider]

Acts 1 clearly states Jesus was taken up, ascended to heaven, after the 40 days...

JLB

Just in case you didn't actually read my comment, we are in agreement over this one point; that Acts 1 clearly says that Jesus was taken up into heaven after the 40 days. There is no denial of this. The only thing I wanted to know concerning this event was what YOU actually saw when he was taken up?

Now since we are in agreement that Acts 1 states that Jesus was taken up after the 40 days, would you please explain why Jesus told Mary not to touch him, but to go and tell the brethren and say to them that I ascend unto my Father as it is written in John 20:16-18? Why was she told not to touch him? And Why did he instruct her to go and tell the disciples that Jesus has ascended to the Father?

Not that it is directly related in any way, but I would like to point to another scripture that talks about ascending and descending.

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.