What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

[gordon777]

The Christians life is motivated by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, otherwise it is nothing but religion.

Yes, I had written about the examples of the Apostles, because they are practical examples of the Gospel of Christ.

Everything else therefore, that cannot align with those actual examples ( to follow) of the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, can be only impure religion. ( man made, following itself and not Jesus Christ.

The thread asking what does it mean to abide in Christ is herein answered, ( not by empty men's reasoning) by the explanation of the perfect law of liberty, ( witnessed and taught so much by Apostle Paul, of being a prisoner of the Lord, but not a prisoner to satan/sin) who did bridle his tongue as James testifies about below, to not be vain and do vanity, but to be pure, undefiled before God, to be kept unspotted from the world, visiting all people of the faith, never stopping no matter what suffering and persecutions those Apostles of the Lord had to endure for the Lords and Gospels sake.


James 1;25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.



Gordon:

"No scripture can be taught against the practical examples of the Apostles, nor against the purpose of that good conscience /belief in the rising of Christ from the dead, and also of non causing of offence to anyone. ( in all things giving glory to God.)

Those who do commit sins, ( those of this world/and any man that is called a brother.) fornicators, covetous, railer, drunkards, are to be judged, and pout away from ourselves those wicked persons."

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, I had written about the examples of the Apostles, because they are practical examples of the Gospel of Christ.

Everything else therefore, that cannot align with those actual examples ( to follow) of the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, can be only impure religion. ( man made, following itself and not Jesus Christ.

The thread asking what does it mean to abide in Christ is herein answered, ( not by empty men's reasoning) by the explanation of the perfect law of liberty, ( witnessed and taught so much by Apostle Paul, of being a prisoner of the Lord, but not a prisoner to satan/sin) who did bridle his tongue as James testifies about below, to not be vain and do vanity, but to be pure, undefiled before God, to be kept unspotted from the world, visiting all people of the faith, never stopping no matter what suffering and persecutions those Apostles of the Lord had to endure for the Lords and Gospels sake.


James 1;25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.



Gordon:

"No scripture can be taught against the practical examples of the Apostles, nor against the purpose of that good conscience /belief in the rising of Christ from the dead, and also of non causing of offence to anyone. ( in all things giving glory to God.)

Those who do commit sins, ( those of this world/and any man that is called a brother.) fornicators, covetous, railer, drunkards, are to be judged, and pout away from ourselves those wicked persons."

"The perfect law of liberty" means to be "In Christ". All that are "In Christ" are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". They have ceased from their own works (Religion) and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

 

[Gregg T]

There are no commands or rules for believers, because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

This verse means that Christ is the endpoint, goal, or terminus of the Law. The Law points to Christ and our need for His righteousness imparted to us.

It does not mean that the Law in total is done away with, or ceases to be, because we are still to love God and our neighbor - the summation of the Law (Rom 13:9, James 2:8). No one was ever justified by law in God's presence, "Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, 'THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH' "(Gal 3:11).

 

[gordon777]

"The perfect law of liberty" means to be "In Christ". All that are "In Christ" are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". They have ceased from their own works (Religion) and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

To be in Christ is to put on Christ, to put in charity. ( putting on charity, is to put on the bond of perfectness, nothing else is.)

God sees perfection as perfection, not imperfection as perfection. ( this is mans way of seeing things, very different from God.)

God did cease from His own works, ( not religion.) when He entered into His rest, but laboured first.

We labour to enter, unlike Israel, who without faith, did not labour to enter, as God showed the way to labour to enter into His same rest.

Just the same as Jesus Christ our Lord suffered first then entered into His rest, and the Apostles too, first laboured, see below.....



Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



Do we labour to enter after the same example of Christ, or not labour to enter, ( suffer and labour for others.) as Christ and the Apostles of the Lord we see did, labour always, which is very differently to Israel not labouring in faith for anyone, but themselves.



Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?



Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

 

[gordon777]

This verse means that Christ is the endpoint, goal, or terminus of the Law. The Law points to Christ and our need for His righteousness imparted to us.

It does not mean that the Law in total is done away with, or ceases to be, because we are still to love God and our neighbor - the summation of the Law (Rom 13:9, James 2:8). No one was ever justified by law in God's presence, "Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, 'THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH' "(Gal 3:11).

Not quite all the details Gregg.

The law has to be done away with, because even though the law is summed up to love God and our neighbour as ourselves, the law never contained that love within it.

Then the end of the law to them that believe, not only is Jesus being the place the law led us to ( our school master) it also is the end of that school master, to be justified by faith, and we are no longer under that school master/law. ( believing in the love of God to lay His life down for us. Romans 10:8-9.)



Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.




Now that the old covenant vanished, there had to be a change of the law. ( new covenant) God had told a law would proceed from Him, this is the magnification of the law, to make it honourable.



Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.




We were freed from the law, as it is the law of sin and death. The strength of sin is the law. ( we were freed from the law.)

Thanks be to God, who gave us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.




To know how to love our neighbour as ourselves, which all the law is fulfilled in, is to perceive ( believe) in the love of God, laying His life down for us. ( then we fulfil all the law of Christ, which is the faith of Jesus Christ.)



Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[Robert Pate]

This verse means that Christ is the endpoint, goal, or terminus of the Law. The Law points to Christ and our need for His righteousness imparted to us.

It does not mean that the Law in total is done away with, or ceases to be, because we are still to love God and our neighbor - the summation of the Law (Rom 13:9, James 2:8). No one was ever justified by law in God's presence, "Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, 'THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH' "(Gal 3:11).

The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. Not the law. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation, Romans 8:1. Worse yet, where there is law there is wrath, Romans 4:15. Where there is law there is a curse, Galatians 3:10. "Tell me that you desire to be under the law. do you not hear the law" Galatians 4:21. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:7-10.

 

[Free]

This verse means that Christ is the endpoint, goal, or terminus of the Law. The Law points to Christ and our need for His righteousness imparted to us.

It does not mean that the Law in total is done away with, or ceases to be, because we are still to love God and our neighbor - the summation of the Law (Rom 13:9, James 2:8). No one was ever justified by law in God's presence, "Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, 'THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH' "(Gal 3:11).

Would you agree that there are numerous rules and commands given in the NT for believers to follow with the help of the Holy Spirit, not for justification, but out of obedience for sanctification, spiritual growth, and even just to show the world the kingdom of God?

 

[Robert Pate]

Would you agree that there are numerous rules and commands given in the NT for believers to follow with the help of the Holy Spirit, not for justification, but out of obedience for sanctification, spiritual growth, and even just to show the world the kingdom of God?

The Holy Spirit is far superior to the law. The law does not help the Christian live a holy life, what it will do is cause the Christian to sin, Romans 7:8-10.

 

[Free]

The Holy Spirit is far superior to the law. The law does not help the Christian live a holy life, what it will do is cause the Christian to sin, Romans 7:8-10.

That is not what those verses say. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and the Law shows us what sin is:

Rom 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Rom 7:13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. (ESV)

Do you partake of the Lord's Supper? Why or why not?

 

[Gregg T]

Would you agree that there are numerous rules and commands given in the NT for believers to follow with the help of the Holy Spirit, not for justification, but out of obedience for sanctification, spiritual growth, and even just to show the world the kingdom of God?

Sure. And we are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Gregg T]

Then the end of the law to them that believe, not only is Jesus being the place the law led us to ( our school master) it also is the end of that school master, to be justified by faith, and we are no longer under that school master/law.

All I'm saying is that righteousness has always come by faith, both in the OT and NT, and never at any time by doing or observing the Law.

 

[Robert Pate]

That is not what those verses say. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and the Law shows us what sin is:

Rom 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Rom 7:13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. (ESV)

Do you partake of the Lord's Supper? Why or why not?

You have taken Romans 7:12-13 out of context. The law is an expression of God's righteousness and is good. But don't try to live by it, otherwise you will become a hypocrite like the Pharisees. I don't participate in kind of religious rituals. Why would I do that? God already sees me as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed.

 

[Free]

You have taken Romans 7:12-13 out of context. The law is an expression of God's righteousness and is good. But don't try to live by it, otherwise you will become a hypocrite like the Pharisees. I don't participate in kind of religious rituals. Why would I do that? God already sees me as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed.

So, how about the answer to my question: Do you partake of the Lord's Supper? Why or why not?

 

[gordon777]

All I'm saying is that righteousness has always come by faith, both in the OT and NT, and never at any time by doing or observing the Law.

But you are not saying enough, is all I am saying.

Righteous before the Lord, is by the faith of walking in the ordinances and commandments of the Lord. ( example of this is Zacharias and Elizabeth before Christ was born.)


Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[gordon777]

The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. Not the law. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation, Romans 8:1. Worse yet, where there is law there is wrath, Romans 4:15. Where there is law there is a curse, Galatians 3:10. "Tell me that you desire to be under the law. do you not hear the law" Galatians 4:21. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:7-10.

The Christian guide and keeper, means we are under the law to Christ, to also fulfil the righteousness of the law.



Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.



If we mention John 16:13, it is faithful to only remember the previous chapter, of the commandment Christ left us to love one another, we cant take a certain verse and claim we do not have rules or commandments, and say because we are under the guidance of the Spirit, and not under law. We are under the commandments of Christ/under the law to Christ, or we have no guidance from the Holy Spirit. ( Christ does not work against Christ, but is in harmony for all things/scriptures.)


John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

 

[gordon777]

Sure. And we are not under the law, but under grace.

We are under the law to Christ.



1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.



We are to fulfil the royal commandment:


James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[gordon777]

You have taken Romans 7:12-13 out of context. The law is an expression of God's righteousness and is good. But don't try to live by it, otherwise you will become a hypocrite like the Pharisees. I don't participate in kind of religious rituals. Why would I do that? God already sees me as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed.

Because partaking in the Lord supper,is showing the Lords death till he comes, and that is why many we hear, did that.

Also when many did that without being worthy, they died.

Not doing this then, is not showing the Lords death until He returns.

Rituals of the old testament are not showing the Lords death till He come, ( which along with His resurrection saves us) and are therefore nothing.


1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

 

[gordon777]

Would you agree that there are numerous rules and commands given in the NT for believers to follow with the help of the Holy Spirit, not for justification, but out of obedience for sanctification, spiritual growth, and even just to show the world the kingdom of God?

I would agree that there is one command that fulfils all of the law, to love our neighbour as ourselves, ( which is what Christ did for us all, He displayed what the love of God is to the world.) which is faith that saves us/justifies us, without the works of the law.



Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[Robert Pate]

"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

It is very apparent that not many believe. To be under the law or subject to the law (which many are) is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10. In spite of these scriptures many continue to talk about how they are keeping the law. It just blows me away. I guess this is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

The law that Jesus taught is the Mosiac law. If you fail in one point of this law you have failed the whole thing, James 2:10. The Mosiac law demands perfection or spiritual death. The law says, "The soul that sins shall die" This means that sin is the transgression of the law. All that transgress the Mosiac law are sinners and will be judged as sinners. Maybe this is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Do you not hear the law?".

I believe what Paul wrote when he said, "There is none righteous, no not one" Romans 3:10. I don't keep any of the law. To be under the law is to be under condemnation. I don't try to keep the law, because I believe that Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of the law. Jesus in my name and on my behalf, fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for me, Matthew 5:18. I stand before God as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

 

[gordon777]

1. Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

2. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, ( the curse of the law is: cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.)

3. God making a new covenant with the house of Israel, not according to the covenant He made with Israel when He led them out of the land of Egypt, and they continued not in His covenant. ( that covenant was, cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.)

4. The covenant that God makes with the house of Israel is, after those days, God puts His laws in their minds, and writes them in their hearts. ( Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, of not continuing in all things of the law, to do them, because they continued not in His covenant, now the house of Israel/remnant, continue in His covenant, with the law put in our mind, and written in our hearts by the Spirit of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.)


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: