You know I think I agree with you....
But we still have to be taught.
When I think about myself, I'm not guided by any laws....But I do remember to love...however it comes to me.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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What does it mean to be "In Christ?"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
But we still have to be taught.
When I think about myself, I'm not guided by any laws....But I do remember to love...however it comes to me.
But that isn't what the Bible itself says, which is what is important. You are also once again committing the fallacy of equivocation by using a verse that is speaking of the Mosaic law as though it applies to the commands and rules for believers.
I don't know the doctrine of Robert Pate but I read from a man who once said when students are taking a test, they don't have to believe the right answer to get it right.
And I
think this is like this Post, if we cannot explain how in our own walk the statement and doctrine we profess comes alive to us in detail myself included, then we are playing off words that have but a nickel meaning to our own lives.Robert Pate
Member
There are no commands or rules for believers, because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Christians are not Pharisees. They are Spirit led children of God. Jesus in our name and on our behalf fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law. Matthew 5:18. Christians are not under laws, they are under grace, Romans 6:14. You have an Old Covenant theology that is under the judgment of God, Galatians 3:10-14.
Again, the fallacy of equivocation on the meaning of "law." It is an irrational argument and you need to abandon it. On the contrary:
1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
John is merely repeating what Christ himself said:
Joh 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
...
Joh 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
And what are just some of those commandments from Jesus?
Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
...
Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Mat 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Mat 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Mat 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.
Mat 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
2Jn 1:4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father.
2Jn 1:5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
And here, Jesus not only commands the disciples to go make more disciples, but also to teach others "to observe all that I have commanded you."
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
(All ESV.)
Putting that all together then, Jesus issues quite a number of commands and rules for living as his followers. Indeed, he says that anyone who loves him will keep his commandments (and John reiterates this in his epistles). Jesus then commands the disciples to go make more disciples of all nations and to teach them to follow all that he commanded the disciples. That simply cannot be denied.
The result is seen throughout the rest of the NT, where most of the books have at least some commands and rules for right belief and holy living as followers of Christ. This has nothing to do with justification, which is a point that Paul continually makes--no one can ever be justified by the law. It is about sanctification and obedience. Some of the commands and rules for believers are from the law and all are based on the moral law:
Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (ESV)
We cannot follow them and carry them out on our own; we need the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit. He provides the understanding of the rules and commands, the will to follow them, and the wisdom in how to apply them in our daily lives. To ignore those rules and commands is to ignore God, ignore what he has commanded, and is evidence that one doesn't actually love him.
Given all the very clear commands and rules for believers the Jesus and the Apostles give us, and command to give to others, my theology is firmly grounded in the new covenant. Take heed of John's warning: "Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
I've heard it said that we do not keep or uphold His commands by trying to keep them. Yet by becoming the type of person that naturally upholds them. We are to be transformed by the renewing of the mind. It is written to first make the tree good then it's fruit will be.
Does making a disciple mean that the person being disciple is automatically regenerated?
Jesus Allows the disciples and those with them to know that all authority had been given onto him. And as they go, to make disciples of all nations. This seems to be the reason His father sent Him and the reason He sends us. And truly this must be our purpose. Jesus would be with them rather teaching them how.
But there is effort involved because in making disciples we must teach them to do all that Christ commanded us.
Yet is this propelling instruction part of the command to love? Yes, because love seeks the best for others, and love seeks not it's own.This would be the natural expression of one that is in Christ. As Jesus always pleased His father and His father never left Him alone. Is it not the annoiting that teaches us?
While I doubt Mr. Pate may be thinking this way
I can still kind of see how the scriptures he used may stand in the way I described. [of course I could always be wrong]
Sense it is true that neither uncircumcised or circumcision avails for anything but the only thing that matters is faith worked by love;Then where is this love found? It's found joined, or in union, eating his body and drinking his blood, or as another said here, joined to the body of Christ where He is the head. Therefore we are all new creatures as part of His body. And the expression of who He is, is love. Just as from faith to faith- from love to love. So if we love where is Law.
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How do the chatters on the thread expect they can ignore what Christ did, and the Apostles did likewise, and think they are having some sort of discussion about what it means to be in Christ ?
Do people really think a discussion is being in Christ ?
The very opposite of course is true, to be in Christ is by being called and chosen by Him, then the disciples left all they had.
Notice also that the thought of giving all away for the rich man was not a possibility, no wonder the thread cant even possibly discuss the verses of what Christ actually did, and the disciples who followed the same way. ( which is the beginning of being in Christ.)
We see Christ calls ( and chooses the Apostles.
But we also notice, the Apostles did leave all to follow Christ, ( they are the few) but many are called and not chosen. ( there is no man who left all for the sake of Christ and the Gospel, who would not receive eternal life.)
Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
Matthew 20:16 So THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST, and the first last: for MANY BE CALLED, BUT FEW CHOSEN.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But MANY THAT ARE FIRST SHALL BE LAST; and THE LAST FIRST
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Next we hear about Apostle Paul ( one of the few chosen) who lost all things to follow Christ. ( make yourself poor to be rich, the ransom of a mans life are his riches. Proverbs 13:7-8.)
Has not God CHOSEN THE POOR of this world, RICH IN FAITH ?
Proverbs 13:7 There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.
8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Do people really think a discussion is being in Christ ?
The very opposite of course is true, to be in Christ is by being called and chosen by Him, then the disciples left all they had.
Notice also that the thought of giving all away for the rich man was not a possibility, no wonder the thread cant even possibly discuss the verses of what Christ actually did, and the disciples who followed the same way. ( which is the beginning of being in Christ.)
We see Christ calls ( and chooses the Apostles.
But we also notice, the Apostles did leave all to follow Christ, ( they are the few) but many are called and not chosen. ( there is no man who left all for the sake of Christ and the Gospel, who would not receive eternal life.)
Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
22 And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
Matthew 20:16 So THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST, and the first last: for MANY BE CALLED, BUT FEW CHOSEN.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But MANY THAT ARE FIRST SHALL BE LAST; and THE LAST FIRST
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Next we hear about Apostle Paul ( one of the few chosen) who lost all things to follow Christ. ( make yourself poor to be rich, the ransom of a mans life are his riches. Proverbs 13:7-8.)
Has not God CHOSEN THE POOR of this world, RICH IN FAITH ?
Proverbs 13:7 There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.
8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
If you think you can show John chapter 7, to not fully reveal the Pharisees as not keeping the law, you are mistaken.
Firstly Jesus speaks to the Jews, ( who are guided by the Pharisees, as we will see in this chapter) that they do not keep the law. ( they seek to kill Jesus as testified in the chapter. John 7:19.)
Next we hear who it is that seeks to kill Jesus, ( which is who Jesus has testified, DOES NOT KEEP THE LAW THEREFORE.)
Some of them of Jerusalem said about they who seek to kill Jesus. Thy speak of the rulers who are not speaking anything to Jesus, although He was seen to speak openly/boldly in their JERUSALEM TEMPLE.
John 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
John 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
26 But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?
The people had wondered why the rulers could not control Jesus. ( the rulers are those who sought to kill Jesus, who Jesus confirmed do not keep the law.)
The Pharisees heard the murmurings, and the Pharisees and chief priests sent officers to take Jesus. ( showing the rulers who sought to kill Jesus, whom Jesus said they do not keep the law, are the Pharisees and chief priests. Also some of those of Jerusalem confirmed it is the rulers, who sough to kill Jesus/which is those who Jesus had said they seek to kill him and do not keep the law.)
John 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
The chapter even ends showing the same law breaking of the Pharisees.
The Pharisees confirm they and the rulers have not believed on Jesus. The Pharisees reveal their belief, that the people who want to believe in Jesus are cursed.
Nicodemus ( who Jesus had told about being born again.) reveals how the Pharisees he is with are not keeping the law. ( they judge, before they know what a man has done, which proves what the Pharisees did was FOLLY AND SHAME.)
Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
John 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
There is no veneer, that is hocus pokus.
There is obeying the voice of the Lord God, not providing burnt offerings, and sacrifice. ( tithing of mint dill and cummin from the scribes and Pharisees.)
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
That is how those of the law are summed up in Romans 2, they teach law, but they do not teach themselves. They make boast of the law and break the law. ( not keep the law as Tenchi claims.)
The Pharisee teachers of the law blasphemed the name of God.
The circumcision of the Pharisees and of the Jews, is made uncircumcision. ( as they do not keep the law, they break the law.)
But the uncircumcision, ( the Gentiles, the Pharisees blasphemed the name of God among.) kept the righteousness of the law, for their uncircumcision to be counted circumcision. ( through faith, through the circumcision of Christ. Philippians 3:3. Colossians 2:11.)
When the uncircumcision fulfils the law, they judge those of the letter. ( flesh circumcision, no Spirit.) who TRANSGRESS THE LAW. ( James confirms the same for everybody who brewaks the law, not having the Spirit of faith in Christ, to fulfil it in righteousness.)
Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Firstly the Pharisees neither had obedience to the law of God, nor even circumcision. ( having no faith in the law of the letter, serving in oldness of the letter is not keeping, but breaking. Romans 2:29 7:6. 2 Corinthians 3:6)
Next, to further absolutely prove the Pharisees never could have faith to be obedient, and that they ever kept the law of God, is TESTIFIED, they ( all Israel including the Pharisee teachers) continued not in the covenant of God, and so are not regarded by God.
To stop the faithlessness of the Pharisee who keeps nothing God says, the new covenant is made by the faith of Jesus Christ, and it is God writing His laws in the heart and mind,so they are kept. ( Jeremiah speaks of this too,, how this is God putting HIs fear into our hearts, which the Pharisee had missing, so it was not possible to believe in God not keep any law of God for them.)
Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Secondly, of course the revelation of the mystery is the obedience of one to believe in, and to stop following the disobedience of the other. ( of all other including the disobedient Pharisees.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
No person has love of their own, God is love. ( alone)
Of course we require God to dwell in us, and then HIs love to be perfected in us. ( or it is NOT POSSIBLE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.)
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
The Pharisees did not have the Spirit of Christ in them, ( no love of God in them for one another, or any of the Jews taught by the Pharisees.)
John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Tenchi almost hit the nail on the head this time, but not quite.
For a man to fulfil all the law, ( to love your neighbour as yourself.) God must dwell in us, or like the Pharisees, instead of fulfilling all of the law, they break all of the law. ( through NOT LOVING THEIR NEIGHBOUR AS THEMSELVES.)
These testimonies of John are true, and Tenchi wont have any ability to dispute them one tiny bit.
If anyone can love the brothers ( love your neighbour as yourself) they pass from death ( of those in the law/.Pharisees in sin, who all die not in faith/in Adam. John 8:24) to life. ( everybody in Christ is made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22.)
Also the Pharisees and indeed all who are not in Christ, ( which is all revealing answers, what this thread has asked.) because they have no eternal life abiding in them, ( unable to love the brothers/love your neighbour as yourself) are all MURDERERS.
God first loved us, ( to show love and to believe in the love and righteousness/keeping of the law through Christ, not the breaking of it through the Pharisee) and sent Christ to be forgiveness for our sins ( as we see the Pharisees were in until death.)
Now we are taught to love one another ( which is the whole law the Pharisees could not keep, but it is shown they broke it entirely.) and if we love one another, ( to keep the whole law is in loving our neighbour as ourselves) it proves God dwells in us only then, and His love of Christ is perfected in us. ( to live as He lives)
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
You mention the believer, believer in what ?
Belief in obedience, or belief in disobedience ?
If it is belief in disobedience, it is belief in all other but Jesus Christ.
But if it is belief in the obedience of ONE, then obedience comes with belief. ( showing they are one and same.)
Then love comes into the heart of that believer, ( who believed in the obedience and faith of ONE Jesus Christ.) to also obey in faith.
John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
How then are you going to continue to dismiss that what has been revealed by that obedience of ONE, is the obedience of faith. ( you cant show wisdom that cant acknowledge the obedience of faith of Jesus Christ /faithful until death, which gives a crown of life, and shows God exalting Christ Highly for His becoming obedient unto the death of the cross.)
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
You cant ever know things with that attitude Tenchi, deciding what is what before you even are answered.
Of course you are wrong, ( how often are you shown wrong on every single detail, and and never can acknowledge a single thing.)
Here we go AGAIN.
Is the Spirit, the Spirit of obedience?
The Spirit rests on the Son of God, of the fear of the Lord.
Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
I know ears can be dull of hearing Tenchi, so here it is again for you, the second time as I know you might not have just caught what I have already just shown to you. ( and your focus might just be going elsewhere just for the sake of dispute.)
That fear ( Spirit) is the new covenant not made previously with God and man, of the fear of the Lord put in our hearts and then they can OBEY. ( in the Spirit)
Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
I think as people we have pride. IF WE'VE BEEN TEACHING THE SAME THING TO PEOPLE ALL OUR LIVES YOU THINK IT WOULD BE EASY TO BREAK DOWN AND HUMBLE OURSELVES?
IT TAKES TIME...it's like Ross's stages of dying
denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance
It is what it is...
David did not die for us, ( nor anyone else die for us.) but the love of Christ is clear, we know that all were dead ( including David) as Christ DIED FOR ALL.
We live unto Christ, not David nor anyone else, but only unto Christ who loved us ( Galatians 2:20. ) and gave Himself for us all, and rose again.
There is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ, ( not David nor anyone else as any mediating, crucifying for us, or love to follow.) as Jesus Christ gave himself as a ransom FOR ALL, which is now TESTIFIED.
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The long list in Hebrews is good that you remember it.
They all died, (Including Elijah and Elias in faith. 2 Kings 2:9. Mark 9:13.) they all saw corruption, ( David and all) apart from Jesus Christ, who alone saw no corruption/the first begotten of the dead. ( Acts 13:36-37. Revelation 1:5.)
The faith of Jesus Christ is the love of God, ( as told above, which Jesus Christ alone showed to the world, to forgive the world of ALL dying in corruption.)
There is no love before this, no life, only corruption/death. ( the list Tenchi gave, is a list of all those who embraced those promises of faith/the Spirit, but had not received them, because they are fulfilled only in the faith of Christ to forgive ALL MEN from death, Abraham, David, Elijah, by Him who loved us ALL, died AND ROSE AGAIN/ FOR ALL have sinned, ALL INCLKUDIING ABRAHAM, DAVID, ELIJAH COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD, THAT JESUS CHRIST IN US, IS/ THIS MYSTERY AMONG THE GENTILES/THE HOPE OF GLORY. Romans 3:22-23. Colossians 1:27.)
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Yes, love for God is because He first loved us. ( believing He layed His life down for us. and we ought to lay our lives down for the brothers.)
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
The words of Psalms you quote of our soul thirsting and our flesh yearning for God.
A believer ( His sheep) in Jesus Christ would know Christ fulfilled those words of Psalms.
He fed them in a good pasture, He fed His flock and caused them to lie down.
Of course the Jews and Pharisees disputed against this, what Christ fulfilled. They asked, how can this man give us HIs flesh to eat ?
Anyway that was our soul thirsting for God, and our flesh yearning for Him. ( as His flesh is meat indeed and His blood is drink indeed.)
Ezekiel 34:14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Do people on the forum never have the littlest bit of shame in front of others, for the sheer amount of correction that is done to their every single word ? ( will others continue their discussions anyway, regardless.)
Does shame ( a conscience) exist when it is quoted how Paul lost all things, yet not a word has been spoken about this, nor any acknowledgement in this entire thread of chatters, ( then can only be denial) about what it means to be in Christ is how Christ had nowhere to lay His head the Apostles likewise are examples to follow ( not talkers) of doing the work ?
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
It takes no time to believe, it takes all our life to deny though and die in doubt.
You just responded to the verses of the Apostles chosen by Christ, taking no time to leave all.
When Jesus rose again, it took no time for them to believe, they were corrected for any hardness of heart. ( not believing those who first saw Jesus alive)
But Jesus shows next, how the Spirit is given for those who believe, and that Spirit stops any hardness of heart. It is the new covenant of God giving the heart of flesh.)
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Remember what you had just spoken to me, how we do not need to be afraid of death ?
All our lifetime we did need to be afraid of death ( people now are all their lifetime afraid of death) but we are now delivered from that fear. ( no longer all of our lifetime in doubt, and damned in sin/unbelief. Romans 14:23.)
When we can believe, it takes no time ANY LONGER. ( to be delivered from all death is/all sin/all doing unrighteousness. ( this is the people being born/it takes only the time of being born/stop travailing in birth as the unbelievers do all times.)
Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Those born ( again)
Psalm 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Those who we are waiting to be born. ( again)
Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
God knows where people are at.
A woman whose man never cheats on her but never spends time with her is in a rough spot.
Just as
There are things that must be unraveled in the mind. There are different protestant beliefs I find very cultic because they never started off with the foundation of merely Trusting Jesus for who he is. Instead they trusted in a doctrine, while filled with truths, they were filled with truths for those that experienced them in the way they did, not just believed what was written about them in words. We sometimes through things passed on to us by family and tradition may have done the same. Taking scriptures and applied them to ourselves.
Most people want to get it right....
No one knows it all...
Just keep us in prayer
