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What does the Bible mean by "Predestination"?

Re: The sign of circumcision... The SEAL of the righteousness of the FAITH

Eventide said:
Remember I told you and then it was ignored as if nothing was said.

Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.. And then he was given the sign of circumcision, which is the SEAL of the righteousness of the faith.

Paul says the exact same thing in Eph.. That it was after we trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel of our salvation, and after we BELIEVED, that we were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance unto the praise of the glory of His grace.



Why would I do that.. There is no such thing in the scriptures.
Click to expand...

The way a man of flesh enters into Kingdom of God is very simple and laid out clearly in NT scripture:

1Pe 1:23

 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Rom 10:8

 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

We have in the Kingdom of God, all that we believe and hold in faith. (2Cor3) confirms that the NT is the "ministry of rightoeusness " meaning as we believe we see Christ, and are "conformed to His Image":-)

 
Re: The sign of circumcision... The SEAL of the righteousness of the FAITH

I figured it would be a waste of time Mitspa, but since you asked it of another I thought that it would be nice if you would show me my error.. Lest you be thought of as hypocritical.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
You need to please show me what you stated in the scripture first !
Click to expand...
I think I laid out my view of "predestination" in post #4. A very simple matter for a very simple gospel!:thumbsup

Luk 18:17

 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
 
Old things are passed away, BEHOLD, all things are become new...

It would be interesting IMO to see if any other Christians are led to believe that our old man is being conformed to the image of Christ.. And why... Regardless of whether that is correct or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong.. Although only Mitspa has voiced that belief thus far.
 
Re: Old things are passed away, BEHOLD, all things are become new...

Eventide said:
It would be interesting IMO to see if any other Christians are led to believe that our old man is being conformed to the image of Christ.. And why... Regardless of whether that is correct or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong.. Although only Mitspa has voiced that belief thus far.
Click to expand...

Do you mean to say as if we are "improving" our old nature? I don't hold that, but I'd suggest a new topic on it. Can you start one?
 
The old or the new

BECAUSE... Let's assume for a moment that it is biblically correct that our old man according to the flesh actually is being conformed to the image of Christ.. If that's the case, then predestination to GLORY would be applicable to certain individuals in the first Adam.
 
Re: Old things are passed away, BEHOLD, all things are become new...

Danus said:
Do you mean to say as if we are "improving" our old nature? I don't hold that, but I'd suggest a new topic on it. Can you start one?
Click to expand...

I didn't think so, and as mentioned, I think that only one person thus far has voiced that opinion.

IMO it's perfectly applicable to predestination..

Yes ?
 
Re: The old or the new

Eventide said:
BECAUSE... Let's assume for a moment that it is biblically correct that our old man according to the flesh actually is being conformed to the image of Christ.. If that's the case, then predestination to GLORY would be applicable to certain individuals in the first Adam.
Click to expand...

No! in the mind of the Father the old man "adam" has died with Christ!
We who believe now serve God in "spirit and truth"! It is the "spirit" overcoming the "flesh" that is the conforming to the "Image of Christ":-)


2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. :clap
 
Re: The old or the new

Eventide said:
BECAUSE... Let's assume for a moment that it is biblically correct that our old man according to the flesh actually is being conformed to the image of Christ.. If that's the case, then predestination to GLORY would be applicable to certain individuals in the first Adam.
Click to expand...

Ok. as long as we work it into this topic, have at it.
 
Re: The old or the new

Mitspa said:
No! in the mind of the Father the old man "adam" has died with Christ!
We who believe now serve God in "spirit and truth"! It is the "spirit" overcoming the "flesh" that is the conforming to the "Image of Christ":-)


2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. :clap
Click to expand...

OK, so now it appears that you believe that our old nature, the old man according to the FLESH is NOT being conformed to the image of Christ..

Is that correct.. ?

And as requested, would you be kind enough to show me the error in my thinking.. I'm sincerely open to it and would rather cut to the truth for all of us IN CHRIST rather than to set myself upon some I'm right pedestal.

IMO we probably haven't even scratched the surface of these infinitely glorious things.
 
Re: The old or the new

Danus said:
Ok. as long as we work it into this topic, have at it.
Click to expand...

Thank you Danus..

Although if anyone would like to look at these things in another light then my thread titled "CHRIST in you" would certainly be applicable imo.
 
Re: The old or the new

Eventide said:
OK, so now it appears that you believe that our old nature, the old man according to the FLESH is NOT being conformed to the image of Christ..

Is that correct.. ?

And as requested, would you be kind enough to show me the error in my thinking.. I'm sincerely open to it and would rather cut to the truth for all of us IN CHRIST rather than to set myself upon some I'm right pedestal.

IMO we probably haven't even scratched the surface of these infinitely glorious things.
Click to expand...
No I have by the "spirit" put to death the "old man" I and millions upon millions of "true Christians" can testify to the truth of The Word of God! We walk by the "Spirit of Christ" we are conformed to" His Image" any other form of "christianty" is not acceptable to the Father!:(

Joh 4:23

 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24

 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. :chin
 
The MIND of CHRIST...

Mitspa said:
No I have by the "spirit" put to death the "old man" I and millions upon millions of "true Christians" can testify to the truth of The Word of God! We walk by the "Spirit of Christ" we are conformed to" His Image" any other form of "christianty" is not acceptable to the Father!:(
Click to expand...

And WHO is conforming our MINDS to the image of CHRIST.. according to the scriptures.. ?

The HOLY SPIRIT of GOD.. that's who..

And again, Paul tells us to be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of our MINDS..

Whose MIND do we have in us.. ?
 
Re: What does the Bible mean by "Predestina\tion"?

I don't think God has predestined anyone, I think maybe God has a feeling who will probably be saved and who wouldn't. I think Jesus had a feeling throughout the whole time with Judas Iscariot that his faith might of been the weakest and why he could of fell into temptation.
 
Re: The MIND of CHRIST...

Eventide said:
And WHO is conforming our MINDS to the image of CHRIST.. according to the scriptures.. ?

The HOLY SPIRIT of GOD.. that's who..

And again, Paul tells us to be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of our MINDS..

Whose MIND do we have in us.. ?
Click to expand...
1Co 2:12

 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13

 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14

 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15

 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Co 2:16

 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Yes! I have the "mind of Christ" in this "old body of flesh" and the Spirit of God is at work "in me" to conform "my spirit"

Rom 8:16

 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: :biglol

 
Re: The MIND of CHRIST...

Mitspa said:
1Co 2:12

 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13

 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14

 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15

 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Co 2:16

 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Yes! I have the "mind of Christ" in this "old body of flesh" and the Spirit of God is at work "in me" to conform "my spirit"

Rom 8:16

 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: :biglol

Click to expand...

No kidding... I love the word of God and agree with every single infinite bit of it.. :-)

Now would you be kind enough to show me the error in my thinking so that we can all learn from it..

You did say that what I'm saying is false doctrine.. and that's the last thing in the world I would like to bring to the body of Christ.
 
Re: What does the Bible mean by "Predestina\tion"?

greatisthelight said:
I don't think God has predestined anyone, I think maybe God has a feeling who will probably be saved and who wouldn't. I think Jesus had a feeling throughout the whole time with Judas Iscariot that his faith might of been the weakest and why he could of fell into temptation.
Click to expand...

I would add that the anyone here would be specific to all men in the First Adam..

And that everyone in the LAST ADAM (our Lord Jesus Christ) literally are predestined to GLORY.
 
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. - Matthew 1:21
Click to expand...

I think his people are anyone who believes on the name of Jesus, I don't think God died for everyone's sins, I think if someone believes in Jesus there sins were payed for on the cross, if someone dies unbeliever then there sins were not payed for on the cross. Those who die without there sins payed for will have to pay for them, themselves.
 
greatisthelight said:
I don't think God has predestined anyone, I think maybe God has a feeling who will probably be saved and who wouldn't. I think Jesus had a feeling throughout the whole time with Judas Iscariot that his faith might of been the weakest and why he could of fell into temptation.
Click to expand...

greatisthelight said:
I think his people are anyone who believes on the name of Jesus, I don't think God died for everyone's sins, I think if someone believes in Jesus there sins were payed for on the cross, if someone dies unbeliever then there sins were not payed for on the cross. Those who die without there sins payed for will have to pay for them, themselves.
Click to expand...

The debate over unconditional election (Predestination) is not whether or not God elects or predestines people to salvation but upon what basis He elects them. Is that election based upon foreknowledge that those individuals will have faith in Christ, or is it based upon God’s sovereign choice to save them? As the word “unconditional” implies, this view believes that God’s election of people to salvation is done “with no conditions attached, either foreseen or otherwise.” God elects people to salvation by His own sovereign choice and not because of some future action they will perform or condition they will meet. Those who come to Christ become His children by His will, not by theirs. “They were not God's children by nature or because of any human desires. God himself was the one who made them his children” John 1:13http://biblia.com/bible/cev/John 1.13
 
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