What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

God, before He created adam, in His Eternal Purpose in Christ, had determined to unite all things unto Him as to be governed by Christ. Christ must needs be, by Sovereign Eternal decree and purpose ,become the Head of a New Creation.

Adam was not to be this Head. All creation was to have a harmonious unity in Him [Jesus Christ] for whom All things were made col 1:

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Many today, being blinded by the devil, the god of this world, give adam the preeminence over creation instead of Jesus Christ.

They believe Jesus was a backup plan of God, because of Adam's failure, not realizing that adam was created subservient to and to serve the Eternal redemptive purpose centered in Christ Jesus.

Thats what eph 1:

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

It was always Gods own purpose in Himself to gather together in one all things in Christ, this was never a honor for adam.

 

[savedbygrace57]

In Gods original and Eternal Purpose in Christ eph 3:


11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

It was God's will that Man, should hold a higher rank than the Angels, but when He made Adam from the dust of the ground, He never intended Adam to be the man who would be the Head of that Glorious class of Men.

That Man was Jesus Christ; You see Adam could not have been that Man because he was taken out of the ground, and made originally lower than the Angels. Even if Adam had not sinned, he was not fit to take Man to that Level of felicity and Honor and Glory God intended for Man through Jesus Christ. For it was Truly God's Purpose that Man fulfills this High Honor through redemption and salvation, hence it is written ps 149:4

For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.

​

 

[savedbygrace57]

Was Adam the real end God had in Mind when He said let us make Man in our Image and our Likeness ?

Gen 1:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Did Adam in His earthy natural condition fit the bill ? 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Which one is more of the Image and Likeness of God ? The Man from the Earth or the Man from Heaven ?

Man does not find the fulfillment of Gods Purpose in making Him in His Image and Likeness until he is on his way in being conformed unto the Image of Christ who is:

Heb 1:


3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


Was Adam, the man from the dust of the ground, the brightness of God's Glory ? Was he the express image of His Person ?

Of Christ its said 2 cor 4:


4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:


15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Gods creative purpose was for men would be conformed to the Image of His Son rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

Now, think about it ! Was Adam the one God had in Mind when it was said Let us make Man in our image and likeness ?

Which Adam represents more perfectly, The Image of God ?

 

[mondar]

Was Adam the real end God had in Mind when He said let us make Man in our Image and our Likeness ?

Gen 1:

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Did Adam in His earthy natural condition fit the bill ? 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Which one is more of the Image and Likeness of God ? The Man from the Earth or the Man from Heaven ?

Man does not find the fulfillment of Gods Purpose in making Him in His Image and Likeness until he is on his way in being conformed unto the Image of Christ who is:

Heb 1:


3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


Was Adam, the man from the dust of the ground, the brightness of God's Glory ? Was he the express image of His Person ?

Of Christ its said 2 cor 4:


4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:


15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Gods creative purpose was for men would be conformed to the Image of His Son rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

Now, think about it ! Was Adam the one God had in Mind when it was said Let us make Man in our image and likeness ?

Which Adam represents more perfectly, The Image of God ?

Good post. Who can answer any more then just to agree and say that the 2nd Adam was the likeness and image of God.

 

[farouk]

I think the technical term from the New Testament is 'the last Adam'.

But I do like the old hymn that says:

'O loving wisdom of our God,
When all was sin and shame,
A second Adam to the fight,
And to the rescue came.'

 

[savedbygrace57]

rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

No discussion on Adam would be complete without understanding what this statement means.

For right away we discover that Adam,s created was associated with the Future incarnation of the Son of God. Sin was in Gods Purpose for Adam, since Adam was created as a figure of Him who was to come and die for sins..

For that was His Purpose in coming 1 jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So too was the works of the devil purposed by God.. The devils temptation of eve and her giving to Adam of the forbidden fruit, all purposed and planned by God..

So Adams creation in gen 1 26 was centered in the Eternal redemptive purpose of Christ, and not of himself. Eph 3:



9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

See Adam was made for Christ Purpose, and not Christ as a rescue mission for Adam after he messed up..

Now, Adam being in the figure of Him who is to come [Jesus Christ] is a critical aspect of His Being made in the Image of God.

The Union between Adam and Eve was in the Likeness of God, this is indicated by Gen 5:


1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Union of Adam and Eve was the Likeness of God gen 5:



1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

And in this oneness of Union, was Adam, male and female, the likeness or figure or type of Him that was to come.

In their creation they [Adam and Eve] were one, and their name one = Adam.

In their beginning formation they were one, male and female, that is eve was in Adam, before God put him to sleep to remove her from him. They at the time of Adam's creation had one Life, and so they were inseparable in both life and death.

You see Eve was in Adam when God gave him the Law gen 2:


15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eve, though not yet manifested, received that Law then and there and at that time was just as responsible for it as Adam was; So when she ate of the forbidden fruit she was his sin, she was Adam's first transgression, hence we read 1 tim 2:


13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The Union of Adam and Eve [His wife], was so complete that her sin was actually his sin, so much so, that even if Adam had not personally partook of the fruit, he was still held accountable for his wifes transgression, and one with her in the Transgression.

So in out text in rom 5 14


14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

This was due to eves transgression first and foremost according to 1 tim 2:

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Also, the Union of Adam and His Offspring was such that when He sinned, they sinned, or other words, when He transgressed all His offspring God purposed in Him transgressed in Him [rom 5:12], and all came under the same sentence of death.

Adam and Eve and their offspring, were one in creation or formation, one in life, one in receiving the law, one in transgression, and one in death, hence He was the figure or type of Him that was to come [Jesus Christ]​

 

[savedbygrace57]

Was Adam created Holy ? Sinless at creation he was in that he was upright and had not yet sinned, that is committed any actual transgression as of yet, but positively and intrinsically Holy he was not, neither was Lucifer or Satan and the other fallen angels..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Adam was not created perfect, but perfectly created !

It is a mistake to think that what God Almighty created perfect, could possibly fall from that state into imperfection. If that was so, then what assurance do we have that when He creates all perfect in the New World, that it will not again fall into imperfection ?

Scripture never stated that God created Adam perfect in the sense as to be without any imperfections, but Adam was perfectly created by God for God's Purpose, which purpose was centered in the Redemption of the Lord Jesus Christ eph 3:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This Eternal Purpose in Christ necessitated that Adam would sin and bring sin death into the world.. God's manifold wisdom necessitated it as well..

 

[Elijah674]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..

Sure have! I find that the Eternal Word of God would have just written this differently is all. And we would have just been included in the Heb.'s other worlds that were surely tested as earth had been. Eccl. 3:15

But we will never see sin a second time as the Word of God tells us in Nah. 1:9. And Eccl. 3:15?? We would have if God had NOT SAID THAT 'SIN WILL NOT ARISE A SECOND TIME'!)
And your question?? It was years ago that (if 'i' remember correctly?;)) I had thought about that? (Heb. 5?? Maybe not?)

But hey, Think of Adam with his Immortal life? His life would be Immortal as will our's will be, by eating of the Tree of Life. That is CONDITIONAL Immortality! (from there on in eternity!)

But only the [GODHEAD HAVE 'IMMORTAL' IMMORTALITY] THAT IS FROM ETERNITY! Forward, Backward, & Up or Down, huh?

 

[savedbygrace57]

eli:

But hey, Think of Adam with his Immortal life? His life would be Immortal as will our's will be, by eating of the Tree of Life. That is CONDITIONAL Immortality! (from there on in eternity!)

Eternal Life was always to be through Jesus Christ, not Adam rom 6:

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Not through Adam !

1 jn 2:

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:
11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.



Titus 1:

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; [before Adam began]

 

[Elijah674]

eli:

Eternal Life was always to be through Jesus Christ, not Adam rom 6:

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Not through Adam !

1 jn 2:

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:
11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Titus 1:

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; [before Adam began]

On CONDITION of Rev. 21:27 & then on through Rev. 22:1-2, (restoration of the Tree Of Life) unless you do not believe the Holy Spirits Inspiration??
And your underlining [missed] HOPE! To Hope for anything finds that it is not a done deal yet either!

Nor is Acts 5:32's To be 'Given of the Holy Ghost' until that [CONDITION] is finished. 'TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.'

--Elijah

 

[warhorse]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..

Adam was already perfect and living in glory with god. There would have been no death, so there would be nothing to inherit.

 

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

Adam was already perfect and living in glory with god.

Good thought, but no scripture to support that. Glory was determined to be through Jesus Christ not adam..

2 thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

What adam had in the garden was never God's intended best for His elect..

 

[Watchman_2]

Why was Adam made??

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
​

What did God have Adam do after he sinned in the Garden of Eden??

Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
​

It seems to me that God had a pretty good idea that Adam would, somehow, sin.

 

[warhorse]

wh:



Good thought, but no scripture to support that. Glory was determined to be through Jesus Christ not adam..

2 thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

What adam had in the garden was never God's intended best for His elect..

Glory had to be through Jesus because of the fall of Adam.
But before the fall he and all that was created by God was pronounced Good by God himself
Gen 1v31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Before the fall. Adam walked with God and God could see him. But God can not look upon sin.
Rom 5v12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
And the only Law given to Adam was to not partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Thus Adam had to be perfect before God
until the Fruit.
Call it anecdotal if you want, but it is at the very foundation of christianity.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Glory had to be through Jesus because of the fall of Adam.

That was determined before the fall..col 1:

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Adam & Eve were not Perfect by a long shot !

Was there lust in Adam and eve before they sinned ?

James 1:


14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Yes it most certainly was lust in eve or how could she had been enticed by the tempter ?

For there was something within her [lust] that the temptation gave strength to, and she was enticed to disobey God's command. She had the Lust of the eyes, the flesh, and the pride of life in her..notice


gen 3:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food[lust of the flesh], and that it was pleasant to the eyes [lust of the eyes], and a tree to be desired to make one wise [pride of life], she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She was characterized by the same symptoms here 1 jn 2:

15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Now, how did that Lust get into her ? There is only one answer, God made it in her when He created them. Yes it was in Adam too because she was made from His substance and we see how quickly he followed her folly, thats because too, no sooner she ate of that fruit, he died to God as well and his eating made that evident.

Yes it was God's purpose that sin should enter the world through Adam and death by sin. God would have never told Adam " Thou shalt surely die" except the seed of sin and death had been in him..

 

[warhorse]

That was determined before the fall..col 1:

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

No it was not. If man was created with sin then there was no fall Adam he was a failure to begin with, and Adams sin is no longer Adams fault, but Gods failure.

 

[warhorse]

Re: Adam & Eve were not Perfect by a long shot !

Was there lust in Adam and eve before they sinned ?

James 1:


14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Yes it most certainly was lust in eve or how could she had been enticed by the tempter ?

For there was something within her [lust] that the temptation gave strength to, and she was enticed to disobey God's command. She had the Lust of the eyes, the flesh, and the pride of life in her..notice


gen 3:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food[lust of the flesh], and that it was pleasant to the eyes [lust of the eyes], and a tree to be desired to make one wise [pride of life], she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She was characterized by the same symptoms here 1 jn 2:

15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Now, how did that Lust get into her ? There is only one answer, God made it in her when He created them. Yes it was in Adam too because she was made from His substance and we see how quickly he followed her folly, thats because too, no sooner she ate of that fruit, he died to God as well and his eating made that evident.

Yes it was God's purpose that sin should enter the world through Adam and death by sin. God would have never told Adam " Thou shalt surely die" except the seed of sin and death had been in him..

You are trying to undermine the truth. Eve did not choose the fruit based on lust she was decieved.
2 cor 11v3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled EVE through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
1 tim 2v2 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then EVE.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Rom 5v12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.