What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

To say that she desired the fruit is obviouse

I know it was obvious, thats where her sin began, by desiring something that God had forbade.

Its like a man looking upon a woman and lusting after her, he has already committed adultery in His Heart.

The word desired in gen 3:


6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Its the hebrew word:
chamad :
to desire, covet, take pleasure in, delight in

a) (Qal) to desire

b) (Niphal) to be desirable

c) (Piel) to delight greatly, desire greatly

She then was sinning by coveting.. Paul says rom 7:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

That covetousness was in Eve already, it just never had been incited until satan tempted her.

Now, where did this sinfulness of covetousness come from if eve was perfect and holy ? God made her did He not ?

 

[Eventide]

Dont know but it is definatly wild speculation and a total disregard for the plainly stated word of God.

I agree..

 

[savedbygrace57]

I agree..

What about post 261 ? You have any comments ?

 

[Eventide]

What about post 261 ? You have any comments ?

What are you referring to specifically.. that Eve was DECEIVED ?

 

[Sam21]

wh:




I know it was obvious, thats where her sin began, by desiring something that God had forbade.

Its like a man looking upon a woman and lusting after her, he has already committed adultery in His Heart.

The word desired in gen 3:


6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Its the hebrew word:
chamad :
to desire, covet, take pleasure in, delight in

a) (Qal) to desire

b) (Niphal) to be desirable

c) (Piel) to delight greatly, desire greatly

She then was sinning by coveting.. Paul says rom 7:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

That covetousness was in Eve already, it just never had been incited until satan tempted her.

Now, where did this sinfulness of covetousness come from if eve was perfect and holy ? God made her did He not ?

Sigh! Sillyness! The only command that God gave in the garden was to NOT EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so it was not possible for Eve to have sinned against God UNTIL she actually ATE THE FRUIT. Did Eve know that she was naked when she looked at the tree? No because she had to eat from the tree to sin.

 

[Sam21]

Re: Deception and Disobedience...

Adam died to God the moment eve ate of the Fruit, for they were one in God's sight, when she transgressed He did too..Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats why it was easy for Adam to take from her and eat, because he was dead to God to by then..

And being deceived does not excuse eve from being disobedient, what kind of reasoning is that ? In her deception she plainly disobeyed God.

Paul puts both sins together titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

You are trying to take something that Paul wrote and apply it to Adam and Eve, is there any place in the bible that gives you permission to do such a thing???

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

You are trying to take something that Paul wrote and apply it to Adam and Eve,

2 tim 3:

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

Sigh! Sillyness! The only command that God gave in the garden was to NOT EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

That was enough ! So eve had no business desiring it for food, God had given her plenty of Food to eat ! Why did she become dissatisfied and not be content ?

gen 1:29

And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.

But eve being not content with that goes here Gen 3:6

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired[covet] to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

She became coveteous ! Thats a sin in itself, paul says:

rom 7:

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The commandment deceived him he says:

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The word for deceived is the greek word:
exapataō and means:

deceive 4, beguile 1

In fact its the same word paul uses to describe also what happened to eve 2 cor 11:

3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Clearly, eve's mind was corrupted before she even ate and is why she ate.

 

[savedbygrace57]

What are you referring to specifically.. that Eve was DECEIVED ?

Yes ! and she covet something that God had forbade her.

 

[Sam21]

sam:



That was enough ! So eve had no business desiring it for food, God had given her plenty of Food to eat ! Why did she become dissatisfied and not be content ?

gen 1:29

And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.

But eve being not content with that goes here Gen 3:6

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired[covet] to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

She became coveteous ! Thats a sin in itself, paul says:

rom 7:

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The commandment deceived him he says:

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The word for deceived is the greek word:
exapataō and means:

deceive 4, beguile 1

In fact its the same word paul uses to describe also what happened to eve 2 cor 11:

3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Clearly, eve's mind was corrupted before she even ate and is why she ate.

No, the mind of Eve was not corrupted, the bible does not say that, the bible says that Eve was deceived, she actually BELIEVED what the Serpent told her rather than what God had told Adam. Eve did not have to be evil to make a choice,she just had to have the ability to make the choice.

 

[Sam21]

Yes ! and she covet something that God had forbade her.

Eve did not know sin until she ate from the tree so she could not have commited any sinful act of covetness, Eve simply realized that the fruit looked good to eat and she wanted to be wise(no sin there). If I looked at a luscious apple and believed it would made me healthy to eat it...is that sin to you?

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

Eve did not know sin until she ate from the tree so she could not have commited any sinful act of covetness,

I rest my case, I have given you scripture, you dont accept it, fine so be it..,

 

[savedbygrace57]

Grace given in Christ, not Adam !

The Great Salvation of God's People, both jew and gentile was according to an Eternal Purpose centered in Christ Jesus before the world began, and not in Adam when the world began..

2 tim 1:


9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now, was life in Adam before the World began ?

The Calling of the Gospel, unto each Child of Grace, proceeds from an Eternal Purpose and Grace given to us before we were made in Adam.

This is a call of Grace Gal 1:

15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

This does not Just mean paul, but all who were given Grace according to the Eternal purpose of God in Christ before the world began..

Eternal Glory was never to be in Adam, but in Christ Jesus 2 tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

People today are deceived into believing that God wanted Adam to be the one who would lead His People into Eternal Glory, but Adam failed, and Jesus Christ was a back plan of sort..But thats Just foolish unlearned thinking, and against the scripture of Truth.. Christ Jesus has always been God's focus as to Who and How He would bring His Children to Glory. Heb 2:10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

You see thats the Eternal Glory spoken about in 2 tim 2 10..

 

[savedbygrace57]

If that life which was given to adam and his posterity in him, had been incorruptible and eternal, it could not have became corrupt. For a good tree indeed cannot bring forth corrupt fruit Matt 7:

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

That the life which was given to adam when he became a living soul, was liable to corruption and death, is clearly implied in what God said Gen 2:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Note: He says not if you eat, as if it was possible or not, but says when or in the day that you eat, though shalt surely die. It was a day already appointed by the Divine Counsels that he would eat and die.

If adam had been made incorruptible, he could not have corrupted himself and his posterity in him by disobedience and brought in death and depravity into the world rom 5:

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

19a For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,

 

[Eventide]

If that life which was given to adam and his posterity in him, had been incorruptible and eternal, it could not have became corrupt. For a good tree indeed cannot bring forth corrupt fruit Matt 7:

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

That the life which was given to adam when he became a living soul, was liable to corruption and death, is clearly implied in what God said Gen 2:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Note: He says not if you eat, as if it was possible or not, but says when or in the day that you eat, though shalt surely die. It was a day already appointed by the Divine Counsels that he would eat and die.

If adam had been made incorruptible, he could not have corrupted himself and his posterity in him by disobedience and brought in death and depravity into the world rom 5:

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

19a For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,

How about in the case of a Christian.. they have been given eternal life in Christ and yet there are times when a Christian can does sin..

 

[Hope]

If Adam had not sinned, we would never have had the oppertunity to excersize our most precious gift that God gave us, that sets us apart from all other created beings, our FREE WILL.

 

[Hope]

If Adam did not sin we would not need to enter into the heavenly kingdom. Adam would eventually have eaten from the tree of life and we would be living in our earthly kingdom in perfection for eternaty, with God visiting often! But the glory God receives when one imperfect soul turns to God with free will, in faith (because we can't see God) is what defeats Satan's plans. And that is the war that Satan declared when he in pride rose against God - to separate God from man!

 

[savedbygrace57]

How was Adam created in the image of God ?



How was Adam created in the image and likeness of God his Creator ?

First of all, some have mistaken that what is meant by this is that adam was made in His image per regard to God's perfections as Deity. But although man in his creation was innocent and upright[until he transgressed] his innocence and uprightness cannot be compared with the immutable Holiness of God. For finite man was capable of sin, as we well should know. Also God's wisdom, power, truth, justice and omniscience and independence [freewill] were peculiar to Himself, and cannot ever be found in any of His creatures.

Now what is an image ? Its something visible and can be seen. The Supreme and eternal Godhead is invisible to finite beings, as He is called the invisible God Col 1:15; 1 Tim 1:17, For no man has seen God face to face at anytime.

Now the Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediatorial Glory was the Image of God Col 1:15

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Phil 2:6

6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Now if we see that Christ as scripture states is the Image of the invisible God, how was man in adam the created in the image and likeness of his Creator ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

How was Adam created in the image of God ? Cont



Lets look at Rom 5:14 Where the inspired writer and Apostle gives us wisdom. Paul states that Adam is the figure of Him to come.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The word figure here is the greek word typos:

the mark of a stroke or blow, print

2) a figure formed by a blow or impression

a) of a figure or image

And alongside that, Christ is the one who was coming, and it has been shown that Christ is the Lord God who created adam and all things in heaven and earth Jn 1:3

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Note: This Truth really confirms the Deity of Christ as God, since Adam is said to be created in God's image, and that image is Christ, Him that was to come, what can be more plainer ?

Those denying Jesus is God, may God if He so wills, grant you repentance.

One more evidence of Christ being God related to image see Col 3:10; Eph 4:24; cp Rom 8:29.

Now in Adam being constituted as the figure, there must have been a body or substance, if he was a type there existed an anti type, a image, then there was an original Col 1:17-18

Now how was Adam a type of the original upon His creation ?

 

[Ashua]

If Adam had not sinned, none of us would be here. Like it or not, we were conceived in sin and apart from sin, we don't exist.