What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

You are trying to undermine the truth

I am giving you truth, and you cannot deal with it..

 

[elijah23]

We can’t blame Adam for our sins. We each have to take responsibility for our own sins.

 

[warhorse]

wh:



I am giving you truth, and you cannot deal with it..

I am showing you the truth, blame God at your own risk. Paul was quit clear

Rom 5v12 Wherefore, as BY ONE man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is BY ONE man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was BY ONE that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was BY ONE to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if BY ONE man's offence death reigned BY ONE; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life BY ONE, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as BY ONE man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[warhorse]

We can’t blame Adam for our sins. We each have to take responsibility for our own sins.

i dont blame Adam for my sins, i blame Adam for my sin nature, the curse and bain of my existance.

 

[Who Says]

We can’t blame Adam for our sins. We each have to take responsibility for our own sins.

If Adam had not sinned would the annimals be eating each other today?

Would they eat meat at all?

 

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

I am showing you the truth

You are showing me scripture, thats it. I have not been able to tell that you understand the scripture truth you show me..Your responses to my posts are very evasive of the relevant points that I made with scripture.

You never addressed how that lust was in eve from the beginning. Why was satan able to entice her if she was a perfect holy being ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

or by the Law is the Knowledge of sin !



rom 3:

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Through the Law, No Flesh [To include Adam ] shall be Justified in His Sight.

Its always been,Through the Law is or comes the Knowledge of sin. Paul says:

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

For that was the purpose for the Law, and it was the purpose for the first head of mankind Adam.

Did not God create Adam in flesh and gave Him the Law ! Thou shalt not eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil ! That was God's Law for Mankind right there. Believe it or not, this law was given to show him or teach him that, even though he was created upright, he was a sinner and could not in his flesh be justified before God ! It showed him that he was yet but weak flesh, that he was but vanity ps 39:5

verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah. This includes first of all Adam. The word man here is Adam in the original.

But now lets not get confused what I am stating here, for Adam was not yet a Transgressor until after He actually sinned [through eve] so thats when Transgression entered into the world. 1 tim 2:


14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Initially !

also rom 5:

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But thats why they sinned, why they transgressed,because in the flesh, they were already sinners, so thats what sinners do when confronted with the Law of God. Sinners sin, they Transgress.

This was God's purpose all along, in order that the seed of the women, and His blessed hope may be now revealed to the world. You see Christ death for sin had been determined before the world began, before Adam and Eve were created !! It was part of God's predetermined counsel acts 2

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

rev 13:

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

lk 22:

22And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined[before the world began]: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

1 pet 1:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

eph 3:

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

When do you think this was determined ?

So Adam was formed out of the dust of the ground for this eternal purpose.

He was given the law [Thou shalt not eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil] to show him he was a sinner, in need of the one who was going to execute the Eternal Purpose by going to the cross [the seed of the woman]You see it was all a foreordained purpose from Eternity..

 

[Lehigh3]

if Adam had not sinned, when he died physically, his soul would have immediately gone into the presence of God in a glorified state.

But bc of the spiritual death & separation sin caused- all were sequestered in Sheol until the Redeemer became the firstfruits from the dead. We now can go into God's presence immediately upon death & not like Daniel for example, who had to "rest" until he received his inheritance in heaven at the end of the Mosaic age.

 

[savedbygrace57]

if Adam had not sinned, when he died physically, his soul would have immediately gone into the presence of God in a glorified state.

Thats where all saved sinners go when they die..because of the blood of Christ..

 

[warhorse]

wh:



You are showing me scripture, thats it. I have not been able to tell that you understand the scripture truth you show me..Your responses to my posts are very evasive of the relevant points that I made with scripture.

You never addressed how that lust was in eve from the beginning. Why was satan able to entice her if she was a perfect holy being ?

You have not made relevent points you have made assumptions. You have not shown that (lust) was in eve from the beginning. She was not enticed she was deceived. I have shown you scripture because the truth is plainly stated,
2 cor 11 v
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled EVE through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ
1 tim 2 v12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then EVE.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

You have not made relevent points

You are still evasive.

 

[warhorse]

wh:



You are still evasive.

Thats not evasive thats blunt. You have accused Eve of lust before the fall, but shown no scripture to support it and then ignored the direct scripture that points to eve being deceived.

 

[savedbygrace57]

wh:

You have accused Eve of lust before the fall,

Eve fell in her heart way before she ate lol..she lusted after something God had forbade. She became greedy. God had given her many Trees to eat from for food, but then this gen 2:9

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now her lust gen 3:6

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So again , you are evasive..

 

[Eventide]

Deception and Disobedience...

The scriptures teach us that the woman was DECEIVED.. and that the man was not deceived.. ie, he was disobedient.

And if Adam would not have sinned, then he would not have DIED.. sin is the root cause of death.

 

[warhorse]

wh:



Eve fell in her heart way before she ate lol..she lusted after something God had forbade. She became greedy. God had given her many Trees to eat from for food, but then this gen 2:9

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now her lust gen 3:6

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So again , you are evasive..

To say that she desired the fruit is obviouse, but she did not choose to look upon the fruit until she was decieved by saten. Adam was not decieved, Adam's choosing to eat the fruit was sin. The sin was not in the fruit, it was in the choice to defy God, and that is why the fall is thru Adam.
Desire is not lust. Desire is natural. Lust is when you dwell on what you naturally desired. There is nothing wrong with recognizing that an attractive women is attractive. Its when we turn back for another look, when we dwell on it in pleasure, that it becomes sin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Deception and Disobedience...

The scriptures teach us that the woman was DECEIVED.. and that the man was not deceived.. ie, he was disobedient.

And if Adam would not have sinned, then he would not have DIED.. sin is the root cause of death.

Adam died to God the moment eve ate of the Fruit, for they were one in God's sight, when she transgressed He did too..Gen 5:2

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats why it was easy for Adam to take from her and eat, because he was dead to God to by then..

And being deceived does not excuse eve from being disobedient, what kind of reasoning is that ? In her deception she plainly disobeyed God.

Paul puts both sins together titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Deception and Disobedience...

Adam died to God the moment eve ate of the Fruit, for they were one in God's sight, when she transgressed He did too..Gen 5:2

I think that this is pure speculation at best.. I think that Adam died when he ate in disobedience.. for he was NOT deceived.

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Thats why it was easy for Adam to take from her and eat, because he was dead to God to by then..

And being deceived does not excuse eve from being disobedient, what kind of reasoning is that ? In her deception she plainly disobeyed God.

Paul puts both sins together titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

There's a huge difference between deception and disobedience.. disobedience is a deliberate act whereas deception is thinking that you're doing something that is ok when it's not.

 

[savedbygrace57]

eventide:

I think that this is pure speculation at best..

It does not matter what you think, you now see the basis for my belief..

 

[Eventide]

It does not matter what you think, you now see the basis for my belief..

Typical Calvinist garbage.. as if your opinion does matter..

Why are Calvinists led to believe that they're so special and beyond reproof.. what is it about Calvinism that makes people think like this ?

 

[warhorse]

Typical Calvinist garbage.. as if your opinion does matter..

Why are Calvinists led to believe that they're so special and beyond reproof.. what is it about Calvinism that makes people think like this ?

Dont know but it is definatly wild speculation and a total disregard for the plainly stated word of God.