What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

How Adam was made in God's Image !



In Adam being constituted as the figure there must have been a body, as to say Type then Anti Type, the Image, then the Original, Christ as the Head of the Church is the Original that Adam was made After. Co1 1:17-18


17And he [As the Head of the Church] is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now how was Adam a Type of the original upon his creation ? First, in his formation he stands as a unit, embodying a multitude which no man can number, thus serving as an emblem of the Mediator Man which is One, in whom God has secured a Chosen People, a seed, a chosen generation, a number that no man can number before the foundation of the world.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him [ Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now in light of this scripture, it is so plain that God's Purpose for His People to be Holy and without blame before Him was anchored in the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world. That is before Adam was ever formed from the dust of the ground, God had determined how His people would be made Holy and without blame. However, many in organized religion today believe that God's design for Adam and man in him, was that he should live a perfect sinless life and never should have sinned to bring in sin and death into the world. To them, the Lord Jesus Christ and His work of redemption was a back up plan to Adam's failure. They fail to see and understand that it was God's intended purpose that Adam plunge his people into sin and death that it would be made fit for the realized Eternal Redemptive Purpose centered in the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph 3:8-11

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

To deny that it was God's purpose and will that Adam sin and bring the necessity of redemptive blessing into the world, is a flat out denial that this world, to include Adam and everything created was for the specific purpose of Christ. Col 1:16

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

It is also an elevation of the creature [Adam] over the Creator which was Christ ! Its a subtle way of worshiping the creature over the Creator who is God Blessed forever. Rom 1:25

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The Truth of God is that the Lord Jesus Christ is main goal of History and His what He accomplished on the cross to Bring the People of God Holy and without blame before Him. However, those who have changed the Truth, insist that Adam, the creature was the main goal of God accomplishing His purpose of bringing men into Eternal Bliss and Happiness, but Adam just failed and Christ was a backup plan to Adam. Thats changing the Truth of God into a lie ! Adam along with all creation was brought into existence for the Redemptive Purpose of Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation, in the Eternal Purpose of God.

 

[Sparkey]

God didn't make Adam to sin. Love hopes all things and believes all things.

 

[Jake]

God didn't make Adam to sin. Love hopes all things and believes all things.

I am not a Calvinist and do not support SBG's views on so many different levels, however, God had a plan and Adam's sin was part of that plan. God's plan is and always was Jesus, in us and through us. We are participants in revealing God's glory!

Your statement makes it seem like God was surprised at what Adam did and that is not the case. Our will is His will and then we have free will in Him, yet, God gave us free choice - we are not robots, He wants us to participate with Him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

God didn't make Adam to sin. Love hopes all things and believes all things.

God made Adam to sin in order to bring about His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ. This was God's Eternal Purpose for Creation Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Do you understand that ?

 

[Sparkey]

God made Adam to sin in order to bring about His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ. This was God's Eternal Purpose for Creation Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Do you understand that ?

SBG -- no need to take a condenscending tone with me. I don't want to argue with you but will not accept your belief that God made Adam in order for him to sin. He did so out of a loving heart. I have been given a father's heart for my children and would never want to see any bad thing happen to them. God is greater than me, certainly.

 

[childeye]

There is the parable of the prodigal son. It is here we see that vanity is the product of taking God for granted. It is plausible therefore that God foreknew this would occur simply because of the circumstance of man's creation being an antecedent event.

 

[savedbygrace57]

That He might be the Firstborn among many brethren !

Rom 8:28-29

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It really astonishes me on how so many professing Christians do not realize that God's creation of Adam was in route to a far greater purpose that had to do with Christ and His redeeming Death. This Eternal Purpose necessitated by God's Eternal Purpose that Adam would be responsible for bringing into this world both sin and death Rom 5:12.

We know this because it was always of God's Eternal Purpose in Christ see Eph 3:11, that Christ would be the Firstborn of Many Brethren. When I say Firstborn, I mean His resurrection from the dead. Rom 8:28-29 Tells us whom it is that all things work together for the good unto, those who are called according to God's Purpose. What Purpose ? That purpose which is Eternal, to conform many brethren into the Image of Christ. Not Adam. God determined this image of Christ would be in the likeness of Christ after His Resurrection, so, it was always determined that Christ must rise from the dead Jn 20:6-9

6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

7And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

8Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

9For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Acts 17:3

Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

This is because God had determined before all worlds that He would be the Firstborn from the Dead.

Col 1:15-18


15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He must in that Have the Preeminence !

Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

This Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11 could only be accomplished by Christ resurrection from the dead, which of course means He had to be put to death in order to rise from the dead. Now what was He put to death for ? 1 Cor 15:3-4


3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Adam was created to this end, to bring about the preordained Death of Christ 1 Pet 1:

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

You see that ? Foreordained before the foundation of the world, before Adam was made of the dust.

And even in light of all this biblical Truth, many of professing Christianity believe that Christ coming to die was a back up plan to God's creation of Adam and then his failure. They give the preeminence of the purpose of creation to Adam, and not to Christ, but only give Christ a backup or second place consolation prize to Adams failure. This kind of thinking is inexcusable especially to those of us who have been exposed to the scriptures for any length of time.

The creation of this world was for the Eternal Purpose of Christ, in making many brethren in His Image, Through Death and Resurrection, for this is the Gospel..

 

[Sparkey]

It really astonishes me on how so many professing Christians do not realize ...

And even in light of all this biblical Truth, many of professing Christianity believe that Christ coming to die was a back up plan to God's creation of Adam and then his failure. They give the preeminence of the purpose of creation to Adam, and not to Christ, but only give Christ a backup or second place consolation prize to Adams failure. This kind of thinking is inexcusable especially to those of us who have been exposed to the scriptures for any length of time.

The creation of this world was for the Eternal Purpose of Christ, in making many brethren in His Image, Through Death and Resurrection, for this is the Gospel..

So those who think that God is LOVE are guilty of inexcusable thinking, they that belive that He is love and believes all things, hopes all things and is perfectly compassionate, are 2nd class Christians (if they are actually saved, that is), those who think that Adam was created not for the express purpose of sinning, those who hold the the belief that sin is a choice --> those brothers who disagree with your dogma are called "professing Christians," the implication being that unless others believe as you do they are not saved.

Did I get that right?

 

[childeye]

And even in light of all this biblical Truth, many of professing Christianity believe that Christ coming to die was a back up plan to God's creation of Adam and then his failure. They give the preeminence of the purpose of creation to Adam, and not to Christ, but only give Christ a backup or second place consolation prize to Adams failure. This kind of thinking is inexcusable especially to those of us who have been exposed to the scriptures for any length of time.

The creation of this world was for the Eternal Purpose of Christ, in making many brethren in His Image, Through Death and Resurrection, for this is the Gospel..

When Adam was made he was alone and God took a piece from Adam and made woman. And Adam beheld woman and he loved her more than anything else God had created. But the woman could not reciprocate being that she had never been alone like Adam and she regarded Him no more than anything else she beheld. This is not fair for Adam who esteems more than He is esteemed, after all she is a piece of He. But it is not her fault seeing that both her and Adam's lot are a matter of circumstance. But woman will come full circle when she has a child which will be a piece of her. For she will Love that child more than anything in the world, and yet she will be taken for granted by that child, and she will think of the man.

I say this because I think man is a piece of God that takes God for granted much the same way. And so this betrothal with God is built upon trust from faith to faith. So it begins amid the prospect of doubt in one another, and this doubt was played upon by Satan working both sides against the middle. Hence he is hypocritically both tempter and accuser. While it is undeniable that we were made for Christ so that he may be the firstborn of the dead, he is the Word made flesh that destroys the spirit of enmity between man and God. For this purpose he was manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. Ahhh the many manifold ways of God., who can know His ways?

 

[savedbygrace57]

sparrow:

So those who think that God is LOVE are guilty of inexcusable thinking

Off topic, and a rabbit trail !

 

[Eventide]

And even in light of all this biblical Truth, many of professing Christianity believe that Christ coming to die was a back up plan to God's creation of Adam and then his failure. They give the preeminence of the purpose of creation to Adam, and not to Christ, but only give Christ a backup or second place consolation prize to Adams failure. This kind of thinking is inexcusable especially to those of us who have been exposed to the scriptures for any length of time.

Who actually believes this... that Christ coming to die was a 'backup' plan ?

Seriously, who in Christendom actually believes this ?

 

[Sparkey]

When Adam was made he was alone and God took a piece from Adam and made woman. And Adam beheld woman and he loved her more than anything else God had created. But the woman could not reciprocate being that she had never been alone like Adam and she regarded Him no more than anything else she beheld. This is not fair for Adam who esteems more than He is esteemed, after all she is a piece of He. But it is not her fault seeing that both her and Adam's lot are a matter of circumstance. But woman will come full circle when she has a child which will be a piece of her. For she will Love that child more than anything in the world, and yet she will be taken for granted by that child, and she will think of the man.

I say this because I think man is a piece of God that takes God for granted much the same way. And so this betrothal with God is built upon trust from faith to faith. So it begins amid the prospect of doubt in one another, and this doubt was played upon by Satan working both sides against the middle. Hence he is hypocritically both tempter and accuser. While it is undeniable that we were made for Christ so that he may be the firstborn of the dead, he is the Word made flesh that destroys the spirit of enmity between man and God. For this purpose he was manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. Ahhh the many manifold ways of God., who can know His ways?

One of the better posts I've seen in awhile. Thank you, childeye for sharing your insight on this.

 

[savedbygrace57]

How was Adam made in the Image of God ?

At Creation, and when God was about to make man God said "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"

Now God is represented by no Image except by Him Alone who is the Brightness of His Glory: "2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person" Heb 1:2-3

Christ is the Only Image of the Invisible God Col 1:15

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

And so making Adam in our Image was the making him in a type of Christ Rom 5:14. For Adam was not like the Invisible God in His Eternity, His Independent Existence, His Spirituality or Spiritual Character, Independence, that is freedom from control, but he was made a type of Christ as the progenitor or head of a Offspring, a Spiritual Race, but he a natural head of a natural offspring.

 

[savedbygrace57]

When Adam was created, he and Eve, for she was in him as part of him, he was not born from above, for he was formed out of the dust of the ground, for if they would have been born from above or of God, they could not have sinned. 1 Jn 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If eve would have been born of God, Satan the Serpent could not have deceived her into eating of that forbidden tree, and also Adam likewise, he ate evidencing that they had no control over their actions; However all along these things were going according to God's own will and counsel. For these happened in pursuance of an Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. Eph 1:11

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This was God's Purpose before He created Adam and Eve..

 

[childeye]

Well said SBG. Good to hear from you. What have you to say regarding the fact that God destroyed almost all of mankind in the flood? Seeing that He had purposed an eternal purpose in Christ, the scripture leaves the impression that God had given up on man. I thank you ahead of time for your attention to this matter.

 

[savedbygrace57]

child

What have you to say regarding the fact that God destroyed almost all of mankind in the flood?

Off topic rabbit trail..

 

[childeye]

child



Off topic rabbit trail..

Pardon my persistence but in the name of the savior Jesus, I do believe it is relevant since if Adam had not sinned no flood would have occured. So it is, in His Name I have asked in all humility in the spirit of asking for bread. If you do not know anything about this I would greatly appreciate your forthright response.

Sincerely, child

 

[savedbygrace57]

Pardon my persistence but in the name of the savior Jesus, I do believe it is relevant since if Adam had not sinned no flood would have occured. So it is, in His Name I have asked in all humility in the spirit of asking for bread. If you do not know anything about this I would greatly appreciate your forthright response.

Sincerely, child

Off topic rabbit trail..

 

[Levi]

When Adam was created, he and Eve, for she was in him as part of him, he was not born from above, for he was formed out of the dust of the ground, for if they would have been born from above or of God, they could not have sinned. 1 Jn 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If eve would have been born of God, Satan the Serpent could not have deceived her into eating of that forbidden tree, and also Adam likewise, he ate evidencing that they had no control over their actions; However all along these things were going according to God's own will and counsel. For these happened in pursuance of an Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. Eph 1:11

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This was God's Purpose before He created Adam and Eve..

It's a nice synopsis but I feel it is missing some vital points and doesn't account for the fact that sin could not enter unless Adam disobeyed the 'Law'

We know there is a heap about the law and sin and what sin actually is i.e. : Where there is no law there is no sin.

So in actual fact if God had not given the first 'thou shalt not' command

There could not have been sin. So that's my first point and I feel it is an important part that we shouldn't miss, because it is the basis of the entry of sin in the beginning 'the first commands' :

Gen 3
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

It is interesting to note that this 'thou shalt' command was also available to Adam:

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

So here we have a conundrum 1x 'thou shalt' and 1x 'thou shalt not' command. The tree of life was in the garden and Adam had the permission and the ability to eat from it....We may very well be looking at a choice situation here

But to my mind it is still bringing up a bit of a paradox, what do you think would have happened if he had of partaken in the tree of life first? That's a really interesting question! when we get to verse 22 I'll expound on that.

Here are a couple of verses for us to consider:

Revelation 22

2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him"

Its also interesting to note that verse 3 says : 'there shall be no more curse', we know the curse of the law of sin and death.

So that would be good reason for God to have undertaken this action in order to keep his Word intact:

Gen 3

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"

If God Cast Adam out in order to keep His Word about Adam dying intact by stopping Adam eating from the tree, then what if Adam had eaten from the tree of life instead of the tree of knowledge? surely it stands to reason that God would have had to have taken the action of destroying the tree of knowledge or removing Adam from the garden as well so that the same thing would not happen, to keep His Word in tact in a reciprocal manor would it not?

I also feel to note this for discussion on the topic:

24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

That looks like a damage control stop gap measure. So Im not so sure that writing off God's foreknowledge and leaning heavily on His predestination is a wise move when dealing with sin and death.

There may very well be an issue of a bad choice here as opposed to a predestined action of Adam.

And the real and present danger there is that Jesus did not want to have to die, nor did God really want to have to sacrifice His word so that we may live,

The truth of the matter is that He said on that day Adam will 'return to the dust'. Adam came from the dust but he was not returned to it until he had partaken in the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Gen 3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

You see that's a Judgment! Adam got kicked out of the presence of God and the entire creation fell. Entropy, regression, decay.

Jesus didn't want to die brothers:

Luke 22:41-42
Matthew 26:39
Matt. 26:42
Mark 14:36

I am personally of the opinion that God sent Jesus to die because He loves us, not because He purposefully created it to happen this way. Jesus is the Word of God and in order for us to arise from the dust where the judgment from the tree of knowledge put us, God's Word could not remain as He was if we where to live!

The Truth had do die! and I do not think that God would have desired that to be His first choice, but rather as The Bible plainly states it's a plan of 'salvation'

And Jesus Did because He's the greatest and that's why I love Him! Not because it's a laid out plan which would make it all meaningless, but because He did it of His own freewill and Love.

"No one has greater love than a person who lays down his life for his friends."