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What is Election?

chessman said:
I'm not angry. My position is that you misrepresented what Paul was saying and why he was saying it in 2 Tim 2:10. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a very specific point only toward that post.
Click to expand...

How is it misrepresented?
How would you interpret it?
 
chessman said:
I'm not angry. My position is that you misrepresented what Paul was saying and why he was saying it in 2 Tim 2:10. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a very specific point only toward that post.
Click to expand...
Can you make a specific point toward what I said about the 2 Timothy passage, please?

It really is the best way for your doctrine to be understood and, maybe, accepted by the rest of us.

We have to understand your doctrine before we can take it as our own.
 
allenwynne said:
How is it misrepresented?
How would you interpret it?
Click to expand...
Paul is not trying to get the elect saved in 2Tim. Yet you said he was:
Jethro Bodine said:
"
trying to get the elect saved whom you say are already saved
Click to expand...

I interpret it hopefully as it was intended. That is Paul teaching Timothy (and other readers) that suffering for other Christians is a good thing. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
chessman said:
Paul is not trying to get the elect saved in 2Tim. Yet you said he was:


I interpret it hopefully as it was intended. That is Paul teaching Timothy (and other readers) that suffering for other Christians is a good thing. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...
Oh, that's right, you're OSAS.

'Salvation' in the passage has to mean the benefits of salvation (not salvation itself as in 'getting saved') in order to stay in conformity to the preconceived premise through which he's interpreting the verse.

"...for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus..." (2 Timothy 2:10 NKJV)
 
The OP, "What is Election?", I think goes way beyond "who are the elect?"
To understand election, I think one has to explain what it means to be "be predestined by the foreknowledge of God".
Does 'foreknowledge' mean 'determined counsel' and if so, what is the bases for it.
There are only two verses in the NT that use the word translated 'foreknowledge'.
Acts 2:23 and 1Peter 1:2 I think Acts 2:23, can be quite insightful.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Here in context to the crucifixion, it was both by "determined counsel AND foreknowledge".

What do any of you think this means?
 
chessman said:
Yes. But that's fine. We can just drop the point I was making and get back to what's really important. Eating vittles on the billiard table in the "formal dinning room".

Click to expand...
Awwww....you dun made me homesick. Now I'm blubbering all over the place. :cries
 
allenwynne said:
I'm OSAS, I guess I'm elected.
Click to expand...
You can be non-OSAS and still be elected.

How do you view 'salvation' in the 2 Timothy passage?

Paul is making sure the elect obtain the salvation the elect already have.

On second thought, let's not get into the implications of that. Let's stay focused on election, lol.
 
Yes, that is true, but Paul knew that he was saved and so do I.
 
Debbie, you suddenly shook us with reality!
 
Deborah13 said:
The OP, "What is Election?", I think goes way beyond "who are the elect?"
To understand election, I think one has to explain what it means to be "be predestined by the foreknowledge of God".
Click to expand...
This is really the direction I was going with this.

Why does 'election' mean without the consent and choice of the one being elected? We don't use the word that way in our daily lives. On what basis do we change it to mean 'without the consent, or will, or qualifications of the elected'?


Deborah13 said:
Does 'foreknowledge' mean 'determined counsel' and if so, what is the bases for it.
Click to expand...
I'd have to think about it more, but I'd say the basis is God's omniscience, and the fact that he already knew the outcome of sending Christ to do what he knew Christ would do.


Deborah13 said:
There are only two verses in the NT that use the word translated 'foreknowledge'.
Acts 2:23 and 1Peter 1:2 I think Acts 2:23, can be quite insightful.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Here in context to the crucifixion, it was both by "determined counsel AND foreknowledge".

What do any of you think this means?
Click to expand...
Exactly what Tristan has been saying: Election is about foreknowledge and God knowing ahead of time how a person will respond to the gospel. And that there is a predetermined outcome for the person who chooses to have faith, and a predetermined outcome for the person who chooses to not have faith. The destiny of the former is to be conformed to the image of Christ. It's God's predetermined outcome for those who believe.
 
Deborah13 said:
The OP, "What is Election?", I think goes way beyond "who are the elect?"
To understand election, I think one has to explain what it means to be "be predestined by the foreknowledge of God".
Does 'foreknowledge' mean 'determined counsel' and if so, what is the bases for it.
There are only two verses in the NT that use the word translated 'foreknowledge'.
Acts 2:23 and 1Peter 1:2 I think Acts 2:23, can be quite insightful.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Here in context to the crucifixion, it was both by "determined counsel AND foreknowledge".

What do any of you think this means?
Click to expand...

1 Peter 1:2 says 4 things that go together.
1. Foreknowledge of God
2. Sanctifying work of the Spirit
3. Our obedience to Jesus Christ
4. Being sprinkled with his blood.

Acts 2:23

God knew ahead of time that they would put Jesus to death and this was his plan.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Why does 'election' mean without the consent and choice of the one being elected? We don't use the word that way in our daily lives. On what basis do we change it to mean 'without the consent, or will, or qualifications of the elected'?
Click to expand...
Who does that? I don't. And i believe in election. Typically, you find people that do not believe in election saying that.
 
allenwynne said:
God knew ahead of time that they would put Jesus to death and this was his plan.
Click to expand...
Yes he was chosen for that, just as we are chosen for whatever it is God has in store for us. We do not elect or choose ourselves to God's service, but that hardly means we don't have any choice in the matter. But that is instantly what it means to some.

Being chosen=no choice

Why is this true for the kingdom, but not true in anything else?
 
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