What Is Shown By Christendom's Utter Lack of a Unified Theology?

[Jacob62]

I can see that.




So you believe that the followers of Jesus Christ who were there in the city during that time, were not Christians?

Even if they all were not there in the city during that event, whereby He came riding in on a donkey, the question still remains.


Do you believe followers of Jesus Christ were Christains?

What is a follower of Jesus Christ if not a Christian?





JLB

How about if it is pointed out that many of Jesus' Followers/Disciples left Him at various times.

A prime example would be seem n John 6:51-58 after they heard His statements about Him being the Bread of Life, and that true Believers must eat His body and drink His blood. After that, many of His Followers "left Him." It turns out, they were not Christians.

In fact, John 8 has Jesus saying to some who "believed in Him," "Now you seek to kill me." He called their Father "the Devil."

Do you still think all who follow and believe in Jesus are thereby Christians? Yes? No?

 

[Jacob62]

Are you referring to yourself? If not, then you should reconsider how you are coming across.

Tell me how you think I am coming across by telling people not to post those types of comments. Be specific.

 

[Jacob62]

When we discuss things here on this Forum, aren’t we filling time and space with words?


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28


Do you believe a follower of Jesus Christ; someone who follows the Lord’s instructions and doctrine and commandments, have eternal life?



JLB

Do you follow the Commands of Jesus in His Sermons on the Mount and Plain?

 

[JLB]

The definition of a follower is someone who agrees with the beliefs of others, or listens to the lead or commands of another. "Following" is an intellectual exercise. I may be a follower of the Rolling Stones, but that doesn't make me a musician.

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


Here is the definition of a Christian —

Christian — Strong's G5546 - christianos​

1. Christian, a follower of Christ

 

[JLB]

Do you follow the Commands of Jesus in His Sermons on the Mount and Plain?

Yes. And if I should miss the mark, I quickly repent and ask Him to forgive me.


JLB

 

[JLB]

How about if it is pointed out that many of Jesus' Followers/Disciples left Him at various times.

Yes Judas left Him, and betrayed Him.


How about Peter, didn’t Peter leave Him after denying Him?


Other disciples left Jesus as well, such as the ones you pointed out in John 6.


What can we learn from these examples?



JLB

 

[Jacob62]

Yes. And if I should miss the mark, I quickly repent and ask Him to forgive me.


JLB

Do you invite the poor, maimed, lame, and blind whenever you have a dinner or supper?

 

[Jacob62]

Yes Judas left Him, and betrayed Him.


How about Peter, didn’t Peter leave Him after denying Him?


Other disciples left Jesus as well, such as the ones you pointed out in John 6.


What can we learn from these examples?



JLB

Not just Judas left Him. "Many" left Him who were followers and Believers.

What can you personally learn from this about people who seem to follow and Believe on Jesus?

Here is what you can personally learn. Jesus said "You are my friends if you do what I command."

 

[jaybo]

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28



How is a person born again?




JLB

John 3 describes the whole situation clearly...

"Now a certain man, a Pharisee[a] named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?”

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above. The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[jaybo]

So you believe people must have the baptism with the Holy Spirit to be a Christian?


Is that what you are saying?



JLB

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Being a Christian is not an intellectual belief, it is being "born again", "baptized in the Holy Spirit", or however you want to put it. "So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17 => A new creation <=

 

[jaybo]

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


Here is the definition of a Christian —

Christian — Strong's G5546 - christianos​

1. Christian, a follower of Christ

That is a weak definition. The Bible explicitly says that you must become a new creation "So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!"

Notice that one must be in Christ, not just a follower.

 

[JLB]

John 3 describes the whole situation clearly...

"Now a certain man, a Pharisee[a] named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?”

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above. The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Yes a person must be born physically (born of water), in order to be born again, (spiritually).


However the question I asked was how is a person born again?


IOW, What must a person do to become born again?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Being a Christian is not an intellectual belief

I never used the term “intellectual belief”.

It’s not a term found in scripture, and I really don’t know where it came from, or what it means.


Lets stick to using scripture, so our theology will be built upon the truth, not made made terms designed to prop up man made doctrine.



JLB

 

[JLB]

That is a weak definition. The Bible explicitly says that you must become a new creation "So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!"

Notice that one must be in Christ, not just a follower.

It’s the only definition the Strongs concordance has.


I gave two scriptures that include the word follow so we can apply them to our discussion


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28



So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28





JLB

 

[Jacob62]

John 3 describes the whole situation clearly...

"Now a certain man, a Pharisee[a] named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?”

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above. The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Trying to pontificate the text of Scripture as you have done here has no significance upon the topic of this Thread.

 

[jaybo]

Trying to pontificate the text of Scripture as you have done here has no significance upon the topic of this Thread.

Do you really expect me to respond to a message like this? All you have accomplished by this is a lack of respect.

 

[jaybo]

Yes a person must be born physically (born of water), in order to be born again, (spiritually).


However the question I asked was how is a person born again?


IOW, What must a person do to become born again?




JLB

They must be "born from above". Jesus clearly explains the difference to Nicodemus. A person must believe in the atoning work of Jesus' sacrifice and ask God to give them a new spirit -- the Holy Spirit -- to live within them and be their guide. This is totally different from the intellectual assent that Jesus was/is a great teacher.

John 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you.

John 15:26, "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

John 16:13, "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come."

 

[jaybo]

It’s the only definition the Strongs concordance has.


I gave two scriptures that include the word follow so we can apply them to our discussion


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:27-28



So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28





JLB

How do the sheep know His voice? Something within them recognizes that He is their shepherd; that "something" is the Holy Spirit. Do you think that following Jesus is simply a mental exercise? Agreeing with Christ's philosophy doesn't make someone a Christian.

Why do you think some people follow Christ while others don't?

 

[Randy]

Do not waste my time restating what you have already said above. Do not give lame explanations. Do not give shallow speculation.

Just answer this: why are you so combative and insulting?

Examine yourself and give us the answer "do no waste my time" "do not give lame explanations" " do not give shallow specultaion" those are your words that came up from your heart.
Just answer this: why are "you" so combative and insulting?

 

[jaybo]

Examine yourself and give us the answer "do no waste my time" "do not give lame explanations" " do not give shallow specultaion" those are your words that came up from your heart.
Just answer this: why are "you" so combative and insulting?

This was written in response to a similarly-worded post to me by Jacob62. I'm sorry if you thought this was directed to you.