What is the general consensus on the rapture here?

[Hopeful]

Yes the sin that is in each one of us will, as you say, blossom into degeneracy.


No Christian is pefect, so no church is perfect.

I disagree with both counts.
There is no sin in those reborn from the seed of God.

 

[Who Me]

I disagree with both counts.
There is no sin in those reborn from the seed of God.

1John1:If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

John was writting to Christians.

 

[Norman]

No sin in the reborn spirit...the soul is another matter.

 

[Hopeful]

1John8: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

John was writting to Christians.

John is indeed writing to Christians, but this, and verses 6 and 10 deal with those walking in darkness/sin.
Christians walk in the light.

 

[Hopeful]

No sin in the reborn spirit...the soul is another matter.

I don't follow you.
Can you give an example of that scenario?

 

[Consecrated Life]

No, I don't think that.
I feel that the thief's crucifixion with Christ prophetically presages our own baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection: that written of in Rom 6:3-7.
The thief physically underwent what we, by the grace of God, experience spiritually.

I believe that before he died the thief experienced the same spiritual passing out of death & separation from God into life that I experienced the moment I opened my heart in belief, removing every barrier that stood between me and personal fellowship with this Jesus who is the Christ .

" He that heareth my word and believeth him that sent me,
hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. "
( John 5:24 )

 

[Hopeful]

I believe that before he died the thief experienced the same spiritual passing out of death & separation from God into life that I experienced the moment I opened my heart in belief, removing every barrier that stood between me and personal fellowship with this Jesus who is the Christ .

" He that heareth my word and believeth him that sent me,
hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. "
( John 5:24 )

Were not some of "His" words..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ? (Mark 16:16)
Sorry, that is a derail, in a derail.

 

[MoriahsSong]

Were not some of "His" words..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ? (Mark 16:16)

Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25.

Miracles like speaking in tongues in the early church was to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it. Tongues and other sign gift in the early church were to fade away as the growth of the church spread to other areas and the message of the gospel became the heart of the gospel instead. Those outward signs like picking up snakes, healing the blind by merely touching the eyes, are done by those who wish to deceive others by slight of hand. Baptism has always been an outward sign of obedience to Jesus' command..."repent and be baptized."

The thief on the cross, went to heaven without it, and Simon Magus to hell with it."

In Mark 16:16, the most important part of that verse is...."but he that believeth not shall be damned." This is referred to as a "Jewish Parallelism." The key word is "believeth." Jesus left out the first part because only "believeth" was the deciding factor. Baptism is a sign of being obedient to God's command to "DO THIS."

On the very last day, all the saints who are in the graves will be raised and those of us who believe in Christ will be changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". Therefore, those all around the world who may be on their way to being baptized will be changed along with those who have been baptized --- a lot more than the sole thief on the cross I would say.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Were not some of "His" words..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ? (Mark 16:16)
Sorry, that is a derail, in a derail.

For me,the ever present consciousness of the intimate vital and personal contact with Jesus, and Spiritual uplift and power He provides daily is the Supreme evidence that His promised salvation has been transacted , imperishably .
This I can only speak for myself.
This circumscribed piecemeal spiritual construct you testify of, that has challenged your own experience I do not know about, but I will pray that what Christ has done for me He will do for you as well.
God Bless, Consecrated Life.
" Neither pray I for thee alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me
through their word. " ( John 17:20 )

 

[JLB]

Interesting that you say "Peter spells out the order of things done at conversion" but then go on to add something that isn't in the text.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)

Peter does not say that after conversion a person will then be "ready for the inhabitation of the Holy Spirit" or that then a person "can ask for the gift of the Holy Ghost". He clearly says that upon conversion, a person "will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." It's something that happens at conversion without asking.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed
for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17


JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Simon Magus professed to believe, and was baptized, yet he was declared to be in the bonds of iniquity: see his history in Ac 8:13-25.

Where did you get a last name for that guy?
Profession and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins are pointless without a true repentance from sin.

Miracles like speaking in tongues in the early church was to confirm the truth of the gospel, and means of spreading the gospel among nations that had not heard it. Tongues and other sign gift in the early church were to fade away as the growth of the church spread to other areas and the message of the gospel became the heart of the gospel instead.

I disagree, and none of the gifts have faded away.
The confirmation of the gospel is the active adherence to "love God with all your strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself".
How we walk is the confirmation of the gospel.

Those outward signs like picking up snakes, healing the blind by merely touching the eyes, are done by those who wish to deceive others by slight of hand. Baptism has always been an outward sign of obedience to Jesus' command..."repent and be baptized."

Picking up snakes is a temptation directed at God.
It is the accidental attacks from serpents that we have been given protection from.
Baptism is a vastly different, and more important thing to me.
Rom 6:3-7 weigh heavily in my POV.

The thief on the cross, went to heaven without it, and Simon Magus to hell with it."

The thief on the cross experienced physically what we experience spiritually.
If the Samaritan Simon repented of sin his future will be different than it was at the time of the writing of his lack thereof.

In Mark 16:16, the most important part of that verse is...."but he that believeth not shall be damned." This is referred to as a "Jewish Parallelism." The key word is "believeth." Jesus left out the first part because only "believeth" was the deciding factor. Baptism is a sign of being obedient to God's command to "DO THIS."

Part of your cited "belief" is being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
It is the unbelievers who will refuse all of the Lord's commandments.

On the very last day, all the saints who are in the graves will be raised and those of us who believe in Christ will be changed "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". Therefore, those all around the world who may be on their way to being baptized will be changed along with those who have been baptized --- a lot more than the sole thief on the cross I would say.

Agreed.

 

[Hopeful]

For me,the ever present consciousness of the intimate vital and personal contact with Jesus, and Spiritual uplift and power He provides daily is the Supreme evidence that His promised salvation has been transacted , imperishably .
This I can only speak for myself.
This circumscribed piecemeal spiritual construct you testify of, that has challenged your own experience I do not know about,

Not sure what "challenge" you refer to?

but I will pray that what Christ has done for me He will do for you as well.
God Bless, Consecrated Life.
" Neither pray I for thee alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me
through their word. " ( John 17:20 )

I can only pray that what He has done for me, He will also do for you.

 

[MoriahsSong]

Where did you get a last name for that guy?

The name or term "Magus" is not given to him in the New Testament, but is justly used to designate or particularize him on account of the incident recorded in Acts 8:9-24, for though the word "Magus" does not occur, yet in 8:9 the present participle "mageuon" is used, and is translated, both in the King James Version and in the Revised Version (British and American), "used sorcery."

 

[MoriahsSong]

Part of your cited "belief" is being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

I think I know best what my "belief" is; you do not have to tell me. But I do believe that baptism is an act of obedience to Jesus's command when He said "repent and be baptised."

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Act 2:38 "And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[MoriahsSong]

Picking up snakes is a temptation directed at God.

I said that...but in a slightly different manner and not worth nitpicking if I must say.

 

[MoriahsSong]

I disagree, and none of the gifts have faded away.

1 Corinthians 13:8-13
"Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease;......"

 

[Consecrated Life]

Not sure what "challenge" you refer to?

The " Lake of Fire " penalty challenge you claimed you were subject to in this half-baked, partially pregnant, stage of salvation you say you experienced .

" I don't know if he ever stated it, but it would be a lake of fire." ( Hopeful )

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Haven't ceased yet, though.

 

[Hopeful]

The " Lake of Fire " penalty challenge you claimed you were subject to in this half-baked, partially pregnant, stage of salvation you say you experienced .

" I don't know if he ever stated it, but it would be a lake of fire." ( Hopeful )

It is a challenge indeed, to walk in the light.
There are enemies of God around us that want our destruction.
Only God in us can help us resist, among other things, temptations to commit sin.
We are told to "endure till the end", by Jesus in Matt 10:22..."And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

I thank God every day for the grace, new nature, and His word, to help me endure.
For without that help, I am doomed.

 

[Who Me]

John is indeed writing to Christians, but this, and verses 6 and 10 deal with those walking in darkness/sin.
Christians walk in the light.

John was writing to Christians like you and me, both of whom sin and need forgiveness.