When did the Church begin?

[Randy]

Man baptizes with water. Acts 1:4-5

The Spirit baptizes us into Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 Born again

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:4-5


Three different baptisms with three different baptizers.


This was foreshadowed in the Old Testament.


Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
1 Corinthians 10:1-2

• all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

Into Moses = Into Christ

In the cloud = Baptized with the Spirit

In the sea = Baptized in water.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Cornelius and the gentiles received the "same" Spirit as the Israelites. =One Spirit

Jesus baptizes with that one Spirit or Holy Spirit which He received from the Father.

There is only ONE Divine eternal Spirit - The Spirit of our Heavenly Father the only true God as Jesus openly proclaimed as well as proclaiming His God and our God.

The salvation of the only God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen

As in all things from the Father given through the Son.

The Spirit in us represents the presence of Christ as it was sent in His name. Hence Christ in us.
The Spirit in Jesus is the presence of the Father and was given without limit at some point in history before the world began. "fullness" that is all the power and wisdom of God the Father. Jesus is the image of the Father and they are one in that gifting of the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Jesus.

So in reality both Father and Son make their home with the believer. Though Christ in us is emphasized as it was sent in His name.

Make no mistake Jesus who received the gift of the fullness is all that the Father is and in that context is God. And in that gifting is one with the Father.
"the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods being"

And that same Jesus was with the Father in the beginning and all that was made according to the Fathers will and at His command He made through Jesus.

"Let us" make man in our image.

So one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ with the Spirit of the Father. They are one.

The spirit of a person always follows the will of that person.
Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.'"

A person has their own will.
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

The Father is a person. HIS Spirit is not.
The Spirit of Yahweh was upon Jesus. Which is translated to the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord.

 

[JLB]

The Father is a person. HIS Spirit is not.

False.


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


There are three persons of the Godhead;

The Father, The Word and the Spirit.

These three are one.


JLB

 

[Randy]

False.


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


There are three persons of the Godhead;

The Father, The Word and the Spirit.

These three are one.


JLB

The Spirit speaks only what He hears. So yes the Spirit bears witness but according to the mind of the Spirit. Just as the Spirit prays or intercedes according to the mind of God.

Do you think the host of heaven forgot to honor the "person" of the Spirit?

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

Do you think Paul forgot about the person of the Holy Spirit?
yet "for us" there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Randy]

The testimony of God.
Then he answered and spoke unto me, saying, “This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ saith the Lord of hosts.

The Fathers promise
‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

The testimony of the Son
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”


Jesus does not call the Holy Spirit His Father because Mary conceived by the Spirit of the Father.

Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Jesus. Because the Spirit of the Father bears witness.

What to speak beforehand given by the Spirit of the Father.
On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

 

[JLB]

The Spirit speaks only what He hears. So yes the Spirit bears witness but according to the mind of the Spirit. Just as the Spirit prays or intercedes according to the mind of God.

Do you think the host of heaven forgot to honor the "person" of the Spirit?

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

Do you think Paul forgot about the person of the Holy Spirit?
yet "for us" there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The Spirit speaks only what He hears.

If the Spirit hears and speaks, doesn’t this equate to being a person?


Why would Jesus say if someone blasphemed Him, it would be forgiven, but if someone blasphemed the Holy Spirit, it would not be forgiven, in this age or the one to come, if the Holy Spirit was not a person, or being significant among the Godhead?



“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. Luke 12:10


“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:31-32


“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:28-30



JLB

 

[PeterJens]

When did the Church begin?



The church began at Pentecost, Acts 2. Peter, as the other Apostles, was given the keys to the kingdom (church) (Mt 16:18-19). Peter used these keys to "unlock" the door of the kingdom telling people how to enter the kingdom (Acts 2:38) to the Jews first in Acts 2 and then the Gentiles (Acts 10:47-48). Those obedient in submitting to water baptism (saved) were added to the church, (Acts 2:47), the body of the saved (Eph 5:23).

"THOSE THAT WERE SAVED"-Seeing that the Church is purchased with the blood of Christ (Acts 20:28); and the blood of Christ is associated with the remission of sins (Matthew 26:28); and baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38); it makes perfect sense that the Lord immediately adds to the Church (the blood bought body) those who accept the gospel and are baptized (come into contact with the benefits of Christ's death)." Dunagan Comm.

It is an interesting point.
If one takes the gospel account of Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit on the Apostles then the church began then.
If one takes the falling of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost as Gods anointing and statement of His blessing and choosing of His people, then the church started then.

Certainly the apostles saw the falling of the Holy Spirit as the indication of the church, as the gentiles who came to faith showed the in filling of the Holy Spirit so were part of the body of Christ.

The whole difference between the old covenant and the new covenant was the indwelling Holy Spirit, the curtain torn in two, the Holy Spirit turning believers into the Holy temple of God.

 

[JLB]

The whole difference between the old covenant and the new covenant was the indwelling Holy Spirit, the curtain torn in two, the Holy Spirit turning believers into the Holy temple of God.

The Spirit of Christ dwelt in Abraham.

 

[Randy]

If the Spirit hears and speaks, doesn’t this equate to being a person?


Why would Jesus say if someone blasphemed Him, it would be forgiven, but if someone blasphemed the Holy Spirit, it would not be forgiven, in this age or the one to come, if the Holy Spirit was not a person, or being significant among the Godhead?



“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. Luke 12:10


“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:31-32


“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:28-30



JLB

Jesus has communicated to me before via the Spirit in answer to prayer. The Spirit of "God" can do that. The Fathers Spirit would be Divine. Besides you ignored where the Father said, "My Spirit".
When Jesus read from the scroll He didn't read the Holy Spirit is upon me He read the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord, (Yahweh), is upon me. Note "Spirit of"

 

[JLB]

Jesus has communicated to me before via the Spirit in answer to prayer. The Spirit of "God" can do that. The Fathers Spirit would be Divine. Besides you ignored where the Father said, "My Spirit".
When Jesus read from the scroll He didn't read the Holy Spirit is upon me He read the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord, (Yahweh), is upon me. Note "Spirit of"

Jesus is YHWH.

The Spirit of Christ spoke through the mouth of the prophets of the Old Testament.


In you opinion, based on what you understand from the scriptures, what do you believe the difference is between —

The Spirit of God
The Holy Spirit
The Spirit of the Lord; The Spirit of Christ

Do you believe these are one Spirit, or three different Spirit’s?


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7





JLB

 

[Randy]

Jesus is YHWH.

The Spirit of Christ spoke through the mouth of the prophets of the Old Testament.


In you opinion, based on what you understand from the scriptures, what do you believe the difference is between —

The Spirit of God
The Holy Spirit
The Spirit of the Lord; The Spirit of Christ

Do you believe these are one Spirit, or three different Spirit’s?


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7



JLB

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Jesus as the Son has His own Spirit
"Father into your hands I commit my Spirit"

Clearly as we read the Fathers Promise and Jesus's and the Apostles words regarding that promise the Spirit He sends He received from the Father.

The Spirit of the Father lives in Jesus who has His own Spirit and they are one.
Jesus-I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one--
The Spirit dwells or lives in me with my spirit. Jesus and the believer are one.
The Spirit is sent in Jesus's name and conveys the will of Christ in the believer.

Jesus has this authority. At his will the Spirit of the Father will act or speak. Just like the Father.

The Sovereign Lord is the Father. The one Jesus calls His God. The one the Father states is His God.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. Jesus is not "I AM" He is the image of "I AM" as the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. Not Him but IN Him. In that Jesus is all that the Father is and they are one.

There are occasion's in the OT where Christ speaks
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[JLB]

Jesus is not "I AM" He is the image of "I AM" as the fullness was pleased to dwell IN Him. Not Him but IN Him. In that Jesus is all that the Father is and they are one.

There are occasion's in the OT where Christ speaks
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Jesus is I AM. YHWH the Lord God.


Everytime a prophet spoke in the OT it was the Spirit of Christ speaking through them.


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1


This was Christ saying this, as He created the heavens and the earth.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10



JLB

 

[Randy]

Jesus is I AM. YHWH the Lord God.


Everytime a prophet spoke in the OT it was the Spirit of Christ speaking through them.


The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1


This was Christ saying this, as He created the heavens and the earth.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10



JLB

You are mistaken.
"I Am" is Jesus's God. Period!

Jesus is all that the Father is. God in that context.
Jesus was with the Father in the beginning as He is before all things except His God.
All things are from the Father. All things are through the Son. Which includes the creation.

The Son received all authority from "I Am"
The Son inherited all things from "I Am"
The Son was appointed a priest FOREVER by "I Am"

"I AM" has not received from any other being and does not call any being His God as I Am is the only true God as Jesus declared.

Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

The Father does all that He is pleased to do. While the Son is a image of the Father He abides within the frame work of the Fathers will.

 

[JLB]

You are mistaken.
"I Am" is Jesus's God. Period!

Jesus is all that the Father is. God in that context.
Jesus was with the Father in the beginning as He is before all things except His God.
All things are from the Father. All things are through the Son. Which includes the creation.

The Son received all authority from "I Am"
The Son inherited all things from "I Am"
The Son was appointed a priest FOREVER by "I Am"

"I AM" has not received from any other being and does not call any being His God as I Am is the only true God as Jesus declared.

Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

The Father does all that He is pleased to do. While the Son is a image of the Father He abides within the frame work of the Fathers will.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59


Because Jesus stated that He Himself is I AM, the Jews who considered that blasphemy, took up stones to stone him.

Jesus is not the Father, but the Son.

Jesus is the Lord God of the Old Testament who spoke through the prophets.


Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11




The Lord Jesus appears to Moses —


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6



JLB

 

[Randy]

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59


Because Jesus stated that He Himself is I AM, the Jews who considered that blasphemy, took up stones to stone him.

Jesus is not the Father, but the Son.

Jesus is the Lord God of the Old Testament who spoke through the prophets.


Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11




The Lord Jesus appears to Moses —


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6



JLB

"Before" Abraham was
I Am

God =>I Am

Is the Father Jesus's God? According to Jesus and the Apostles that's a yes.

Does the God who stated "I Am who I Am" have a God? No

So why do you tell me Jesus is I AM?

 

[Randy]

Did Jesus ever refer to the Holy Spirit as His Spirit? NO
Did the Father refer to the Holy Spirit as His Spirit? YES

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Fathers promise
'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Jesus declared the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how then do you believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?

Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. In Him the fullness was pleased to dwell. He has always been the Son. A son who is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods being. The name He inherited is superior to the angels of God. This is the name the Father glorified Jesus with, "Mighty God"

I know from my Lord that He is all that the Father is and that He has always been the Son and that He never dies.

You will not find always was. You will find He was begotten before all things.

In fact begotten of the Father before all worlds is stated. Because He is called God and there is only one they added "'true God from true God" because no other Gods will be formed after the Father they added "'not made"

Clearly the fullness was gifted not made at some point in history before the world began. But Jesus, (His Spirit), was begotten as in formed as the first of Gods works. As Jesus is before all things the firstborn of all things created.

They are one. The Father is living in Jesus.

 

[JLB]

"Before" Abraham was
I Am

God =>I Am

Is the Father Jesus's God? According to Jesus and the Apostles that's a yes.

Does the God who stated "I Am who I Am" have a God? No

So why do you tell me Jesus is I AM?

I never said the God the Father was not Jesus’ God, as any father is to be respected and honored by the son.


Nevertheless Jesus s the Lord God, YHWH, the Lord of the Old Testament who spoke through the prophets.




JLB

 

[JLB]

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1

This is the Lord God, YHWH, Christ Jesus speaking through the mouth of Zechariah.

• who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth... See Hebrews 1:8-10.

It was the Spirit of Christ speaking through Zechariah.

See 1 Peter 1:10-11


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


Likewise it was the Spirit of Christ speaking through Isaiah.


“Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth;
And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
Thus says God the LORD,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
“I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles, Isaiah 42:1-6


He was speaking of Himself, when He would become flesh as the Messiah.


JLB

 

[Randy]

I never said the God the Father was not Jesus’ God, as any father is to be respected and honored by the son.


Nevertheless Jesus s the Lord God, YHWH, the Lord of the Old Testament who spoke through the prophets.




JLB

That contradicts Hebrews 1.

But the Father also states He is Jesus's God. The apostles also noted the Father was Jesus's God.
Jesus would call the Father His God because the Father is His God.

 

[Randy]

We have already established the one on the throne is the Father.

The twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

All things are from the Father just as all things are through the Son.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him

It was the God and Father of Jesus who appointed Jesus Lord and Christ.
Psalm 45:7 - the Father speaking
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

The Father speaking -the gift the Father promised
"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

The Spirit Jesus sends He received from the Father - the Fathers Spirit sent in His name
Acts 2
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

This should have been enough for you if you believe in Him. And He is the head of the body of Christ.
I know my Lord.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Jude
To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Paul
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Rev
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies
Yes, He is all that the Father is
No, He has always been the Son

 

[JLB]

That contradicts Hebrews 1.

But the Father also states He is Jesus's God. The apostles also noted the Father was Jesus's God.
Jesus would call the Father His God because the Father is His God.

How does this contradict Hebrews 1 ?



Here is what Hebrews 1:8-10 says —


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10



Here is what Zechariah 12:1 says —

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1

• Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, Zechariah 12:1

• But to the Son He says: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:10

JLB