When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[Sparkey]

didn't Jesus set the standard a commandment can be broken to preserve life, care for the sick, etc?

Yes, and even for the belly. Thinking about the shewbread (Hebrew: לחם הפנים lechem haPānīm‎, literally: "Bread of the Presence") and David and the Lord of the Sabbath whom they who accused did not know was there.

 

[francisdesales]

We agree on much, but on the "wedding garment" God gives His righteouness as a FREE GIFT. the reason so few put on righteousness, and walk in the power of grace, is because so many are teaching the law, and that righteousness is earned by the written code.

That is not why few people put on the "wedding garment", especially in this day and age...

The biggest heresy today is the "gospel of comfort". It is antithetical to the Gospel taught by Christ (and Paul). People who become Christian accept initial justification, but they do not continue in it very long. They are like the people in the parable of the sower. There attentions are diverted to the world and its ways. Today, creature comfort is a big obstacle to overcome in living the Gospel and righteousness.

Mitspa, very few people are trying to become Jews now that they are Christian believers... We are no longer in the first century, where Judaizers were a big problem.

Whatever is not of faith, IS SIN!

Oh oh. Martin Luther has returned...

Even Lutherans are moving away from that exegesis. Even they realize that there are many actions of man that are morally neutral or driven by motives that could be considered virtuous on a natural level. For example, if an atheist runs into a burning building to rescue his child.

Regards

 

[eddif]

Romans 7:25
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is a great battle between my mind and flesh at times.
++++++++++

There seems to be a problem with understanding today's laws.

IMHO, do note IMHO.



A tradition has developed that sees human authority as always practicing God's authority. That belief, IMHO, has gotten a little off track.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

What are the higher powers?
Proverbs 8:15
15 By me kings reign,
And princes decree justice.

If the person in charge is doing the thing ordained by God be in reverant fear. Some people in authority choose not to choose God's way. That is why you hear Jesus and others comment on doing the correct thing although those in authority oppose God. Everyone is supposed to be under God (rulers, preachers, servants).

What we have done is think that a person in authority is speaking the word of God. They are supposed to.

But some do not​

Romans 1:32
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

What are they supposed to be doing​

Those things revealed from Heaven.
Romans 1:18​

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

So how does God reveal his wrath.
Destruction of Sodom etc.
Through his Law

If we agree with God we are not a judge but a follower.


If we choose to ignore God's instructions we become a judge.

Romans 2:2
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

And following verses.


Note that it says if we judge. For God to judge is ok, but for us to judge in direct opposition to God is not good. Somehow our understanding has come to think that we can not look at sin and decide it is sin (based on actions against sin by God and his word). The ground opening up and swallowing sinners is pretty much God's judgement against sin. The finger of God writing on stone is pretty much God too.

We use the Law lawfully. To identify sin, but not for righteousness. Of course I am splitting the Law?

I am a jerk from Mississippi and what should I know? Can any good thing come out of Mississippi? LOL

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whatever is not of faith, IS SIN!

Oh oh. Martin Luther has returned...

I cringe every time I hear that verse used out of context. And damn the soul that tries to correct its usage, lol.

(Is there such thing as a 'cringe' smilee?)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We use the Law lawfully. To identify sin, but not for righteousness.

Right, not to be justified, but NT writers show us how the law not only identifies sin, but how it also identifies righteousness in a person. But just the suggestion that it does that is quickly quelled as the evil attempt to be justified by works of the law. Even showing the scriptures that show that is not enough to break the indoctrination of 'do-nothing grace' in most people.

Of course I am splitting the Law?

How's that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...very few people are trying to become Jews now that they are Christian believers... We are no longer in the first century, where Judaizers were a big problem.

I agree.

What I see alive and well today is the 'do nothing', 'knowledge saves' Judaism of Paul's day.

Of course, this will be interpreted by most as advocating a 'justification by works of the law' gospel. Which it hardly is.

 

[Mitspa]

We agree on much, but on the "wedding garment" God gives His righteouness as a FREE GIFT. the reason so few put on righteousness, and walk in the power of grace, is because so many are teaching the law, and that righteousness is earned by the written code.

That is not why few people put on the "wedding garment", especially in this day and age...

The biggest heresy today is the "gospel of comfort". It is antithetical to the Gospel taught by Christ (and Paul). People who become Christian accept initial justification, but they do not continue in it very long. They are like the people in the parable of the sower. There attentions are diverted to the world and its ways. Today, creature comfort is a big obstacle to overcome in living the Gospel and righteousness.

Mitspa, very few people are trying to become Jews now that they are Christian believers... We are no longer in the first century, where Judaizers were a big problem.

Whatever is not of faith, IS SIN!

Oh oh. Martin Luther has returned...

Even Lutherans are moving away from that exegesis. Even they realize that there are many actions of man that are morally neutral or driven by motives that could be considered virtuous on a natural level. For example, if an atheist runs into a burning building to rescue his child.

Regards

Luther did not write, THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH nor did he he write WHATEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

The Holy Spirit of God wrote that through the Apostle Paul.

Who also wrote; THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.

APART FROM THE LAW SIN IS DEAD.

THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

FOR SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE.

CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

BUT THAT NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW IN THE SIGHT OF GOD IS EVIDENT. FOR THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, AND THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

ETC...ETC... EVIDENT!

 

[JLB]

Don't get him started. First he will start in with the speech...

Then he will go to flipping that quarter again.

Nothing good usually comes of that!

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don't get him started. First he will start in with the speech...

Then he will go to flipping that quarter again.

Too late.

"Call it".

 

[JLB]

Don't get him started. First he will start in with the speech...

Then he will go to flipping that quarter again.

Too late.

"Call it".

I need to know what I stand to lose, before I call it.

By the way, why do you carry the oxygen bottle around...

 

[JLB]

And why do your eyes start to bulge when you are making a speech...

 

[Ryan]

I was reading Deuteronomy 23 last night, and this passage reminded me of this thread.

Deuteronomy 23 13 (12) Also you are to have an area outside the camp to use as a latrine. 14 (13) You must include a trowel with your equipment, and when you relieve yourself, you are to dig a hole first and afterwards cover your excrement. (CJB)

Now you can use your imagination on all the various ways I juxtaposed my thoughts towards some of the arguments presented here.

This verse just makes me realize God wants to be involved in ALL aspects of our life. Not from the moment we wake up and rise, but 24/7. God is such a loving Father, that he has even remembered what I should do with my refuse. The problem is, and this is self reflection, there are areas I feel I know best and completely forget God gave us the best guidebook on how we are to live our lives so it may go well with us. Why do we not trust God and his Word this to be so?

So if you see on the news a report of some guy digging a hole in his neighbors backyard to use as a latrine, it wasn't me.

 

[JLB]

Here is a scripture for you to reflect on.

It has to do with returning to the law and the sacrifices of the temple.

The setting is the third temple, just before Jesus returns -

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

... And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,

The strong delusion that God sends them is "another messiah" who works signs and wonders from the temple, because the Jews have rejected Jesus and built another Temple and have returned to the Law.

The messianic movement is conditioning people unto the "falling away from the faith in Jesus".

... the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

A return to the Law of Moses is what the Jews are planning.

Undoubtedly many will be saved, however there will those who run after this "messiah" when he puts an end to "sacrifice and offering".


JLB

 

[Ryan]

Here is a scripture for you to reflect on.

It has to do with returning to the law and the sacrifices of the temple.

The setting is the third temple, just before Jesus returns -

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

... And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,

The strong delusion that God sends them is "another messiah" who works signs and wonders from the temple, because the Jews have rejected Jesus and built another Temple and have returned to the Law.

The messianic movement is conditioning people unto the "falling away from the faith in Jesus".

... the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

A return to the Law of Moses is what the Jews are planning.

Undoubtedly many will be saved, however there will those who run after this "messiah" when he puts an end to "sacrifice and offering".


JLB

Strong words, but I will take my time to mull over a proper response. In the meantime, I need to get ready and go to praise our Lord. Shabbat Shalom

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don't get him started. First he will start in with the speech...

Then he will go to flipping that quarter again.

Too late.

"Call it".

I need to know what I stand to lose, before I call it.

"Everything...call it!"

By the way, why do you carry the oxygen bottle around...

Stand still. I'll show you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Keeping the law is only rejecting Christ if one is trying to be justified by that law keeping instead of being justified by faith in Christ's blood. That is when law keeping is wrong.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I submit to everyone here that the church is under the strong illusion of thinking dead faith--faith that does not uphold the requirements of the law--somehow will save them on the Day of Wrath.

 

[Mitspa]

Here is a scripture for you to reflect on.

It has to do with returning to the law and the sacrifices of the temple.

The setting is the third temple, just before Jesus returns -

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

... And for this reason God will send them strong delusion,

The strong delusion that God sends them is "another messiah" who works signs and wonders from the temple, because the Jews have rejected Jesus and built another Temple and have returned to the Law.

The messianic movement is conditioning people unto the "falling away from the faith in Jesus".

... the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

A return to the Law of Moses is what the Jews are planning.

Undoubtedly many will be saved, however there will those who run after this "messiah" when he puts an end to "sacrifice and offering".


JLB

Wow JLB! did God show you this? For I have noticed this whole influx of jewish nonsense and traditions being brought into the church as well. Do you really think that it will come to these poor blinded souls rebuiling the temple? Wow! you just put a new wrinkle in my brain!
It does seem their is a strong demonic element working in the world to do this very thing? I guess we will know when we here that the jews and arabs have agreed the this plan? It may well come after a great war of some sort?

 

[Mitspa]

I submit to everyone here that the church is under the strong illusion of thinking dead faith--faith that does not uphold the requirements of the law--somehow will save them on the Day of Wrath.

2 Cor 3:13-15
Here is blindness as the bible descibes it.
For those who cannot see that the ministry of death and condemnation (WRITTEN IN STONES) The ten commandments, have passed away.

 

[Mitspa]

Keeping the law is only rejecting Christ if one is trying to be justified by that law keeping instead of being justified by faith in Christ's blood. That is the when law keeping is wrong.

Well the law is not of faith! and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.