I believe that "Torah" here does not mean "Mosaic Law". Torah is God's Wisdom - Judaism's interpretation at a COSMIC level. Something that has always existed. Proverbs 8, the personification of Wisdom (and John 1) is Jesus Christ. HE IS the true Torah. The Mosaic Law has been put aside as a legally binding "document", but the PRINCIPLES found within the Mosaic Law - what I am calling "Torah" - has pre-existed creation. That is the Jewish view, and I agree. I also agree that Jesus Christ has replaced this notion and clarified it, made it known. During OT times, it was ambiguous. With Christ, it has been revealed from above.
Paul and James refer back to the overriding principles found within the Mosaic Law, but these principles did not ORIGINATE with Moses. "Love your neighbor" is an idea that has no "beginning", if we consider this as the Wisdom of God personified by Jesus Christ, Whom also has no beginning.
Agree, God desired the Mosaic cult during OT times (a SHADOW of the good things to come - Hebrews lays all of this out) IN ADDITION to the inner conversion of the heart. THAT is the point of the sacrificial cult of Judaism before 70 AD. "Do I (God) desire blood"? Of course not, the animals and trees are all His. What God desires is a contrite heart. The sacrifice is SUPPOSED to lead to that. Now, the sacrifice has changed and there is no more need for animal sacrifices, which only was a temporary cult until the Christ came, Who is Priest AND Victim.
No, salvation is not by works. But is faith and seeking God a "work"? Does one who has this faith seek self-justification? No, "we" rely on God's mercy. The Psalms are covered with such talk.
And this is another question for this thread, why did Ezekiel spend 9 chapters speaking about the temple system again in the millennium? Will the Torah have passed, or be observed in the millennium?
I would imagine he was speaking with words that Jews would understand, but implying more a metaphorical tone.
We are in the end-times. The Temple was destroyed as a sign that its over and done.
Again, Hebrews lays out how the Aaronic priesthood has been superceded by the line of Melchezidek.
Regards
What is the Law of Moses? Is it solely the 613 and mitzvahs? Apart from the temple, Israel, Kings, Priests, etc, there are only maybe roughly 200 or so commandments that can be observed today. These are typically divided into positive and negative instructions. I am sure you have heard of arguing "halakah" and legal rulings based on the Mosaic Law. So of the estimated 200 do's and do nots, why have we decided which ones apply to us and which ones don't? Who gives us the authority to do that?
The Jerusalem Council was entirely Jewish in its scope and practice, and they determined those 4 things in Acts 15 as a starting point for Gentiles as the Law of Moses is taught every Shabbat. This means new believers were told to start with these 4 basic things and they would learn more as time goes on. They never gave them a specific list of what is or isn't relevant, so why do we make those same lists ourselves? Could it be we are so encapsulated with our church's "traditions" and wouldn't think about going against popular thought, even when the bible says otherwise?
[That is what is taught by Messianic Judaism to validate there belief that one must keep the Law of Moses.
You have absolutely what Messianic Judaism teaches obviously. Allenwynne had a great comment on another thread that maybe those who go to church on Sundays try a service on a Saturday, and vice versa. And FYI, I have also gone to church on Sundays in the not so distant past. But this isn't about Messianics, so why do you keep bringing it up?
[The truth for all to see is plain and clear -
They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment-- 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. Acts 15:23-29
Read what the conclusion of the matter was -
"You must be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no such commandment--
It does not say anything about the motive for circumcision and keeping the law, whether for salvation or for what ever reason.
It clearly was written to all -
We gave no such commandment to keep the law! Period no explanation required.
We gave no such commandment to be circumcised! Period no explanation required.
James even explains - For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
James refers to the past, has had.
No salvation has ever come to any Gentiles by the preaching of Moses.
Gentiles were forbidden in the Temple area.
Paul almost lost his life we accused of bringing Gentiles into the Temple area.
And you didn't include the context of the entire chapter as stated in verse 1.
Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and
began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses,
you cannot be saved.
Try read Galatians from this perspective. It wasn't abrogating the Law, merely clarifying one does not need be customized to merit salvation. If it was the Law then, they would never have instructed them this: "...abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.â€
Those that call themselves Messianic Judaism will try and teach that new Gentile converts were to be taught how to keep the law of Moses in Synagogs, of all things.
Did you hear that. They, [Messianic Judaism] say verse 21 means that the Jerusalem council intended for new Gentile Christians converts to continue to be "taught" the law of Moses in Synagogs by Rabbis who hate Christians and Gentiles!
Not discipled in the Teachings and ways of Christ by Paul, but they say verse 21 means that new Gentile Christians were to be taught the Law of Moses by unsaved Rabbis in a Synagog!
Where else would they hear the Word of the Lord from? In a church with steeples and bell chimes? Jesus himself told the people to continue listening to those who teach from Moses seat"
Matthew 23:1-4 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say
things and do not do
them. 4 They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with
so much as a finger.
What were the heavy burdens? Well not the Mosaic Law, but the extra rabbinical laws the teachers placed on the people. That was the burden. God's law is not burdensome, he said so. It was things like handwashing Mark 7:2-4
You sure can't let this Messianic stuff drop can you?
