When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[About the Son of God]

We are discussing scripture. I am sorry you think that's bickering. I don't.

I stand sort of corrected; but the statement "bicker" isn't about the contents of scripture.
Until the conversation does not rest on Until, we will have unrest.

By your explanation of the word "until", John would have had to minister the Law and the Prophets.

He did, but you're also putting words in my mouth. His baptism was of repentance, called a "mikvah" bath in Hebrew (sorry if my spelling is off.) None of John's disciples had any unusual idea of what the messiah was on his account, in any event. So his preaching was only that of normal Jewish prophet.

There were baptisms before John.

But the Gospel *IS* found in the prophets before John (And like John, it can't actually recognize Jesus):

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Luke 24:25-27
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself

What John did was clearly this:
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
And witnessing the light, is preaching the Gospel; without *yet* rejecting the Law.

If anything is proven by Jesus' statement, it is that the Gospel is preached *more* now than before.

By my explanation of the word "until", John would have preached the kingdom of God.

I agree, John preached it.... but so?
The Gospel was preached before, although it wasn't *available*. (Jethro is beginning to discuss that aspect, as did the St. Francis De' sales fellow.)

John paved the way for Jesus. Jesus preached the kingdom of God and fulfilled all the requirements of the Law and established the New Covenant with His blood.

Fine. But, it's not just his blood -- that's an oversight. It's his BODY and blood; in a LIVING sacrifice.

So it is with Galatians, ...snip...

In contradistinction to those who argued with you before, I assent to your position that it is an insertion; and not the original law. "added" does not mean "original". But as Romans points out, the law existed outside of Moses, but *ONLY* when people did what the law required.

When the Seed came the change took place.

Yes -- *and* the old law stayed around after John for some time.
Your entire premise rides on JOHN being the turning point, and it wasn't.
The turning point was Jesus and Jesus' disciples baptisms.
The least born into the kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist.

That change was established by His blood.

And body, and spirit (soul), and divinity, and sacrifice, and resurrection, and ascention to the right hand of the Father.
Without the body -- we have no resurrection; without the resurrection -- we're still DEAD in our sins.

And the change DID NOT HAPPEN until a PROPHET (high priest) of the Old testament, operating under the Old Law, prophesied LONG after John died.

The UNTIL you mention is worthless when trying to say the old law was GONE during John the Baptists lifetime.

The simple fact is, The law of Moses was never intended to be permanent, -

I even agree there; although I don't agree that every part of the Mosaic law was not to be permanent. You're taking the extremest position with respect to change -- and you aren't keeping track of nuanced argumentation. It's going to smack into you again, and again.... and cause others reading the thread endless confusion.

The statement says "easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than one tittle of the law."

We know 1) that Heaven and Earth will pass away; and we know a tittle is not the whole law, but only a small bit of it.
We know 2) that "Easier" (in English, only) does not mean impossible. (This helps you BTW ... but there are other phrasings in scripture which won't help you; precisely because of the UNTIL they use.)

Hebrews 7:11
Notice in that passage it only says "Aaron" but no mention is made of the Levite priests in general; for Aaron had a special role. Aaron is from Levi, but Levites are not all from Aaron.

1) The law is held in place by the priesthood of Levi in General; but there are TWO priesthoods.
2) The high priest, and specific sacrifices, belongs ONLY to the tribe of Aaron.
3) The Other Levites had some PRIESTLY duties that were NOT sin offerings.

8 Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

OK; you've just quoted Paul making an extreme statement...

Hebrews is an abridged conversation; it is addressed to Gentiles, not the "Jews"; Therefore Paul selectively omits parts of texts that happen to be important to the question of the "Law" and the "Jew". There is something important to discuss here, the holocaust.

But: I'd like to understand you before starting that conversation in earnest:

Which covenant law did the "cleared away" sacrifices belong to? (and why)
Next: tell me about this burnt offering; is it abolished -- in what way/when will it come again?
Lastly: do you hold that the only kind of sacrifice there is -- is a sin sacrifice ?

Think carefully, for Paul writes some things "hard to understand". (2Peter 3:15-16)

 

[Mitspa]

Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. All the law and the phophets spoke of Him. He was and is the living Word. To deny that He fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, is to deny that He came in the flesh. Now as far as heaven and earth passing away, we see that in 2 Cor 5:17 that in fact for those who are born-again we are NEW CREATIONS, BEHOLD ALL THINGS ARE NEW. we have died with Christ to the law. Or as Paul says through the law I died to the law.
So these things are made very clear in scripture, that for the believer we are in fact IN CHRIST, we have died with Him and we are raised with Him, in the Mind of the Father.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The laws of sacrifice for sin are not destroyed in Christ. He said he did not come to do that, but rather they are fulfilled in him.

And you just finished telling me they were set aside, disappeared.

A law is not destroyed when it is fulfilled. A law that has been fulfilled is a law whose requirements have been met--satisfied--not destroyed. That is how a law is set aside, with no further action being required in regard to that law. It doesn't get taken off the books. It simply is not taken into consideration anymore since the requirement it sought to satisfy is already satisfied.

If the law that sin requires blood has disappeared, then it no longer exists. If it no longer exists, you just said it had disappeared, why do I need the shed blood of Christ for a law that no longer exists?

So you don't get too hung up on 'disappear', and 'pass away', notice Christ is doing a little poetic word play in the passage:

"18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:18-19 NASB)


But anyway, taking what I just said above into consideration, you can see you're asking the wrong question. It's not about a law that no longer exists. It's about a law that has no more use. The better question is, "why do I have to keep a law to satisfy a requirement that has now been satisfied?" The requirement to keep a law of animal sacrifice has disappeared. That is what it means for that law to 'disappear'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine

Kinda like saying -

If the road that brought me here is the same road that brought this quarter, then what good is the road.

Now call it, heads or tails. Its a fifty fifty chance.

Thats the best I can do for you.


JLB

I didn't put nothing up. I need to know what I stand to win.

 

[jasoncran]

jethro you are correct. if you weren't then I as a jew wouldn't need the blood. I could go to the local temple of choice whether a orthodox and or consertive and repent of my sin sans animal sacrifice. its in the torah where it allows that.

but only if the temple is gone and also the jews cite job and Jonah as other means of atonement.

 

[About the Son of God]

Here's the problem with this thinking.

We all know that some things in the law have indeed 'disappeared'. It's not even in debate among us Christians who believe in the atonement through Christ's blood.

Such a thought/without example is rather abstract; How would it historically manifest?

Kicking around an idea:
From history, I understand that the Romans were controlling the passover sacrifice ritual 33A.D. by confiscating the priests linen robes; without which they could not perform their duties. The Romans, when they decided the Jewish Religion was an uprising (?hearsay, but I think barkokaba revolt), they already knew that the whole religion's laws had a very tight bottleneck in the Aaronite priesthood. Simply executing all of the priests with an Aaronite pedigree castrated the law. (I haven't exhaustively checked the remark, but I have never heard of an Aaronite priest with a viable pedigree to this day.)

The loss of the mercy seat; curiously enough, did not stop the sacrifices at the temple even in Jesus' time; but I'm pretty sure that it was lost in the Babylonian Captivity; So, the law concerning Yom-Kippur couldn't have truly happened anymore at the time of Christ in any event.

I sometimes wonder what it means that whole passages of the Law were not executable (correctly) when Jesus made his comments about the "tittles" of the Law.

I honestly don't see how anyone could argue with this.

Oh... I'm sure somebody will... Someone I'm arguing with makes the most *astonishing* arguments in the face of a very clear example...

 

[JLB]

He most certainly did. His baptism was of repentance, called a "mikvah" bath in Hebrew (sorry if my spelling is off.) There were baptisms before John.

The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

To say it another way -

Before John [past], were the Law and the prophets, until He preached the kingdom of God,[present] and since that time [future], the kingdom of God continues to be preached.

The three-fold fullness of time needs to be addressed here for there to be a complete thought.

The three-fold fulness of time = Past present and future.

another scripture using until to denote change -

It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience-- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:9-10

I even agree there; although I don't agree that every part of the Mosaic law was not to be permanent.

God's Laws are eternal.

Gods Eternal Laws were present in the Law of Moses.

Please understand that some of the Laws in the Law of Moses were symbolic of the good things to come, and so were temporary.

The Law of Moses was added until the Seed should come.

The Law of Moses is and was a "whole package" that was added and therefore removed as a "whole package", even though "parts" of it were and are Eternal.

You shall have no other Gods before Me is an idea or Law that was from the beginning in the Garden.

Don't steal, murder, lie or commit adultery... are as it is heaven and were before man was created and therefore are eternal, in that they will never change.

Gods Laws were evident in Abraham's walk with God, 430 years before the Law of Moses.


JLB

 

[About the Son of God]

The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

To say it another way -

Before John [past], were the Law and the prophets, until He preached the kingdom of God,[present] and since that time [future], the kingdom of God continues to be preached.

The law and the prophets preached that the messiah would suffer violence. Look at this little Gospel clarification.

Matth 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matth 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

That little word "for" means "because". It's more powerful than the statement before -- as it clarifies WHY.
All the prophets of the old testament told us about the suffering of the Christ, the rejection, his own... and so forth.

It was written in the Law what the nature of sacrifice was, and the prophets told us Jesus was the Lamb.
Every little tittle of his suffering prophecies -- had to be fulfilled.

AGAIN: "Until" doesn't prove a reversal -- if it *DID*
The prophecies of Old Testament include *Ezekiel* and the day of resurrection; If the prophets are gone -- so is the resurrection.

-------------

I also note you are ignoring my inquiry into the holocaust offering from Hebrews.
We've opened the can of worms -- time to clean up the mess with a little fire.
Fire is used in the law to cleanse things which can be passed through it....
Or destroy them, if they can't.

Here: I'll re-quote the question:

1) The law is held in place by the priesthood of Levi in General; but there are TWO priesthoods.
2) The high priest, and specific sacrifices, belongs ONLY to the tribe of Aaron.
3) The Other Levites had some PRIESTLY duties that were NOT sin offerings.

8 Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

OK; you've just quoted Paul making an extreme statement... Hebrews is an abridged conversation; it is addressed to Gentiles, not the "Jews"; Therefore Paul selectively omits parts of texts that happen to be important to the question of the "Law" and the "Jew".

There is something important to discuss here, the holocaust. But: I'd like to understand you before starting that conversation in earnest:

Which covenant law did the "cleared away" sacrifices belong to? (and why)
Next: tell me about this burnt offering; is it abolished -- in what way/when will it come again?
Lastly: do you hold that the only kind of sacrifice there is -- is a sin sacrifice

 

[Mitspa]

The "ministry of death" written and engraved on stones. 2 Cor 3
This is nothing but the Ten Commandmants, that in this same chapter says has passed away for those who have turned to Christ.
That we no longer look to the letter "written code" we look to the Person? THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD. He who is the Alpha and Omega, the Word of God. So for one to look to the written code, and not behold the Image of God. They are blinded by that written code. This is all clear in 2 Cor 3.

No man can keep the written code but Christ, and only If one keeps His Image by faith does one keep the law.

 

[jasoncran]

the kohen and those with the name of like spelling or levy. are indeed descendants of the sons of levy. but even the jews agree with that one.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Such a thought/without example is rather abstract; How would it historically manifest?

The tearing of the veil comes to mind.

Which is another good example of a law being made obsolete (not taken off the books) by the work of Christ. Since we have been joined to the body of The non-Levitical High Priest the law governing who can and can't go behind the curtain simply doesn't apply to us. It's as if it 'disappeared'. For us it has disappeared. That law is for those outside of Christ--the ungodly, the irreligious, etc.

I sometimes wonder what it means that whole passages of the Law were not executable (correctly) when Jesus made his comments about the "tittles" of the Law.

Like the law of the red heifer.

I think the point that the Jews never quite got was how fragile and dependent on the imperfect the system of atonement God gave them was. Priests who die. Priests who are not clean, or who do not perform their duties correctly. Animals born who may or may not be unblemished. Bodily functions they had no control over, but which disqualified them from participation in the temple nevertheless. It's hard to take confidence in a system that your life depends on that is so utterly dependent on imperfect humans.

What do you do when any part of that old system and it's requirements falls apart? I think God's intention was to drive them to God's grace when faced with the insurmountable road blocks inherent in fallen flesh to successfully access God through the system they were commanded to do that through, or die. As a nation they just didn't get the message. And they won't until the very end of time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...only If one keeps His Image by faith does one keep the law.

Which means when we are reflecting the image of Christ--being kind, forgiving, peaceable, self-controlled, joyful, patient, etc--we satisfy the requirements of the law to not hurt other people.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Fire is used in the law to cleanse things which can be passed through it....
Or destroy them, if they can't.

Yes, from Numbers 31:

"21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone to battle, “This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded Moses: 22 only the gold and the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin and the lead, 23 everything that can stand the fire, you shall pass through the fire, and it shall be clean, but it shall be purified with water for impurity. But whatever cannot stand the fire you shall pass through the water. " (NASB)

This is how the spoils of war are to be cleansed. Applying this to the battle we wage as warriors of Christ for the souls of men, the spirit of a man snatched from enemy territory is subjected to the fire of the Holy Spirit, while his body is washed in the waters of baptism.

I think this Numbers passage is exactly what Paul had in mind when he spoke of the spoils of his warfare, his labor in the world for the sake of Christ, either surviving the fires of judgment, or not.

"Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1 NASB)

12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work." (1 Corinthians 3:12-13 NASB)

Converts to Christ in the kingdom, building blocks for whom we have labored to place on the foundation of Christ, will survive the fire on the Day of God's Wrath, if they really are building blocks able to withstand the fire, and we will receive the reward of our labor. But if we lead others to Christ and build with a gospel that can not save (easy believism comes to mind), building them up into that which can not withstand the fires of judgment, they will perish in the fire, and we will not receive a reward for that work. Be careful how you build!

Good example by Paul of how to use the law properly. It hasn't been destroyed, but rather understood and fulfilled (satisfied) in the new and true way of the Spirit. While the literal law becomes obsolete. Not taken off the books, just satisfied in a more meaningful, spiritual way.

The law of the oxen just came to mind as another example.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul does state the idea that the old law was "unprofitable" (Hebrews 7:18);
http://www.biblos.com/hebrews/7-18.htm
But I think it had always been unprofitable since he says "for"/"because":
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

So, the law's status is nothing new -- however this "annulling" mentioned in Hebrews 7:18 is something I'm trying to grasp:

The word translated "A putting away" at biblos.com suggests divorce to me, or voluntary breakage -- So I did a word study in Greek, from the bible LXX, NT. etc.
and it is very strongly associated:
Deuteronomy 21:14 και εσται εαν μη θελης αυτην εξαποστελεις αυτην ελευθεραν και πρασει ου πραθησεται αργυριου ουκ αθετησεις αυτην διοτι εταπεινωσας αυτην
It means to no longer Lord it over/have power over her; and also commonly to "betray" or break a contract.

And this is exactly what Paul shows us in the illustration of marriage in Romans 7.

"1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:1-6 NASB)

Paul is saying the law acted like a marriage contract that kept us 'married to', or bound to, sinful flesh (Romans 7:8 NASB). But those who know the law know that a marriage contract only has the power and authority to keep a person bound to the one they're married to as long as they live. So, since we have died in Christ we are no longer legally bound by the marital contract of the law to our old husband, sinful flesh. Death has freed us to be bound to a new husband, righteous Christ, the Spirit being the marital 'law', or contract, that binds us in marital bliss and service and submission to him.

So, it is in that sense that the law has been annulled. It no longer has authority over us because we've died vicariously through Christ. The authority that ended was it's power to hold us in what some are deceived into thinking it prevents--the slavery and marital bondange of sinful flesh.

I could probably sit here all day and talk about this stuff. But I have this earthly marital contract that compels me to get some other things done today, and last time I checked I'm still alive, so that contract is still binding, lol.

 

[Mitspa]

Which means when we are reflecting the image of Christ--being kind, forgiving, peaceable, self-controlled, joyful, patient, etc--we satisfy the requirements of the law to not hurt other people.

Well what I have seen in His Wonderful Image is many things? It is The Image that defends the weak and shows mercy to the humble. It also a Image of great Strength and unmoving might against those such as the pharisee. It is also the Image we see in Revelation as One who returns with judgement against mans unrighteousness. Yes I hope to behold Him in His Grace, but I have also felt His rod. I have been humbled by His Image to depths that are hard to explain.I have also been exalted from the depths of humility. So may each man give account to this Great One according to that which he knows Him to be.

 

[JLB]

Matth 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matth 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

That little word "for" means "because". It's more powerful than the statement before -- as it clarifies WHY.
All the prophets of the old testament told us about the suffering of the Christ, the rejection, his own... and so forth.

It was written in the Law what the nature of sacrifice was, and the prophets told us Jesus was the Lamb.
Every little tittle of his suffering prophecies -- had to be fulfilled.

AGAIN: "Until" doesn't prove a reversal -- if it *DID*
The prophecies of Old Testament include *Ezekiel* and the day of resurrection; If the prophets are gone -- so is the resurrection.

-------------

I also note you are ignoring my inquiry into the holocaust offering from Hebrews.
We've opened the can of worms -- time to clean up the mess with a little fire.
Fire is used in the law to cleanse things which can be passed through it....
Or destroy them, if they can't.

Here: I'll re-quote the question:

The law and the prophets preached that the messiah would suffer violence. Look at this little Gospel clarification.

Of course the Law and the Prophets as well as the Psalms, were about The Messiah. Those were shadows and types. The change is seen when the actual Messiah appears whom the symbolic things speak of.

However, that is not the topic of our current discussion.

Please stay on topic, if you want people to take you seriously and put forth effort in a fruitful discussion.

Jesus said -

The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

The word until here as well as Galatians 3:19 and Hebrews 9:9-11 denotes a change. As it is written -

It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience-- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.

Again the point that I made with Luke 16:16, shows the change clearly as well as directly quotes Jesus making a clear statement -

The law and the prophets were until John...

which flows with -

Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Or as the New American Standard says it -

But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.


JLB

 

[About the Son of God]

Of course the Law and the Prophets as well as the Psalms, were about The Messiah. Those were shadows and types. The change is seen when the actual Messiah appears whom the symbolic things speak of.

However, that is not the topic of our current discussion.

Please stay on topic, if you want people to take you seriously and put forth effort in a fruitful discussion.

No DUH ... and you're the one trying to apophatically make it the topic of discussion in order to do an ad-hominem.
You're effectively Trolling. I'm not the one off topic.

The bringing up of "types" is underhanded subterfuge. I never mentioned the word; and the prophecies I used to make statements with (not the ones I am asking you questions about) CLEARLY aren't about types.

Typology was not yet necessary to our conversation. Types aren't needed to know that Ezekiel's vision is about resurrection of the dead (Note, Ezekiel was a propecy I cited about the resurrection?) Nor is typology needed to know that John the baptist was about to be killed because people thought HE was the messiah. (The kingdom of God suffers violence! ) IT's a CAUSE - EFFECT prophecy.

I could cite many others in detail: "They have dug my hands and my feet".; "It is better for one man to die", "He came unto his own, and they accepted him not", etc.

But, why -- the trolling will go on even if I do -- You know I don't like having the red highlighted re-underlined "until" shoved back into my face *AGAIN*, with every clarification we have had ignored. Everyone knows I have already read those passages -- there was nothing new in the message....

I have never had a problem with "until" being associated with change. (Just not guaranteeing reversal).

I don't even have a problem with until being used when a reversal *DID* happen. BUT: I have a problem with you shoving a text we disagree on -- back into my face -- red highlighted -- as if you can do some kind of magic incantation with the color button on the editor to solve our disagreement...

Until is a CLEARLY apologetically UNSTABLE word that is being used to bury the discussion into intentional IGNORANCE. Ostrich approach.

Regarding the ad-hominem: I tell you now, my conscience is clear until today.

People take me quite seriously, and I them.

And, note, your proudly preferred bibles do not even agree on the translation of Hebrews 10:5 vs. Psalm 40:6. I know the Greek, and I have no problem getting them both to translate the word "body" and not "ear" hear but "body" there.

There are people far less abrasive that I can learn from and share with; and the irritation isn't worth it to me. Please, just leave me alone from now on.

 

[Ryan]

Deuteronomy 11:26-27 26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the Lord your God, which I am commanding you today;

Deuteronomy 7:12 “Then it shall come about, because you listen to these judgments and keep and do them, that the Lord your God will keep with you His covenant and His lovingkindness which He swore to your forefathers.

Deuteronomy 12:28 “Be careful to listen to all these words which I command you, so that it may be well with you and your sons after you forever, for you will be doing what is good and right in the sight of the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.

How can anybody not see, read or comprehend these verses? Oh, but that is for Israel and the Jews. Please find and quote the New Covenant that is apart from Israel please? All the verses that one is arguing that the Torah is now on the bookshelves according to Jesus's teachings, the same bible says Jesus is to be considered a false prophet. Think about that and ponder about it for a bit. Please, this is really important stuff.

And I am awaiting a rebuke from Mitspa...

 

[jasoncran]

so in some future date there wont be any redemption since the priests are forever?

if theres no more sin theres no more need for a priest.

 

[gr8grace]

Deuteronomy 11:26-27 26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of the Lord your God, which I am commanding you today;

Deuteronomy 7:12 “Then it shall come about, because you listen to these judgments and keep and do them, that the Lord your God will keep with you His covenant and His lovingkindness which He swore to your forefathers.

Deuteronomy 12:28 “Be careful to listen to all these words which I command you, so that it may be well with you and your sons after you forever, for you will be doing what is good and right in the sight of the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.

How can anybody not see, read or comprehend these verses? Oh, but that is for Israel and the Jews. Please find and quote the New Covenant that is apart from Israel please? All the verses that one is arguing that the Torah is now on the bookshelves according to Jesus's teachings, the same bible says Jesus is to be considered a false prophet. Think about that and ponder about it for a bit. Please, this is really important stuff.

And I am awaiting a rebuke from Mitspa...

Romans 11:25~~For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-- so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-- that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

Eph 3:9~~and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;

Eph 1:9~~He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him

Col 4:3~~praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned;

Eph 5:32~~This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Col 1:27~~to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

What is the mystery of Christ Jesus? This is the important Question and what needs to be pondered. Because it leads to the answers to your questions. Because it is an all encompassing Grace that motivates believers to obedience to His will.

Any motivation outside of thankfulness for His Grace and walking in the Spirit, is an act of futility on our part to follow the verses you quote.