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when do you think the rapture will happen?

dwb001 said:
Post #2. Wow. You really didn't look very hard did you?
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That has nothing to do with a supposed rapture. That is the general resurrection and final judgement:

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

I have never heard anyone ever try and use this to prove the rapture. Other passages, yes, never this.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Do you really think the meaning of scripture inspired by God is limited to one language???
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Nope. But you wanted to keep to the Scriptural terms... but if you want to do that then at least be honest enough with yourself to admit that honest language would be Greek. Or allow for different words for the same event.
 
Free said:
That has nothing to do with a supposed rapture. That is the general resurrection and final judgement:

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

I have never heard anyone ever try and use this to prove the rapture. Other passages, yes, never this.
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Well maybe ask some questions instead of passing judgment.
And maybe you will open your mind to new ideas.
 
dwb001 said:
Well maybe ask some questions instead of passing judgment.
And maybe you will open your mind to new ideas.
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What generally helps is not merely posting Scripture. Even atheists can do that. I find it is best to provide some sort of commentary as to why one believes a passage supports their assertion.

Rev 20:12-13 is about the general resurrection and final judgement. There is no other meaning. Even Death and Hades get thrown into the lake of fire, along with all unbelievers.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

And all this follows the thousand years and the throwing of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet into the lake of fire. This is the end of the end. What follows afterward is the new heaven and the new earth. I have never heard of the rapture referring to the resurrection and judgement, and why should it? That confuses the issue. Rapture theory is relatively new and only refers to the gathering of believers to Christ at his second coming. But that is not at all mentioned here.
 
Free said:
What generally helps is not merely posting Scripture. Even atheists can do that. I find it is best to provide some sort of commentary as to why one believes a passage supports their assertion.

Rev 20:12-13 is about the general resurrection and final judgement. There is no other meaning. Even Death and Hades get thrown into the lake of fire, along with all unbelievers.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

And all this follows the thousand years and the throwing of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet into the lake of fire. This is the end of the end. What follows afterward is the new heaven and the new earth. I have never heard of the rapture referring to the resurrection and judgement, and why should it? That confuses the issue. Rapture theory is relatively new and only refers to the gathering of believers to Christ at his second coming. But that is not at all mentioned here.
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So you haven't asked me any questions that would bring clarity. You are stating your opinion... and you know what they say about opinions.

I disagree with your assessment of the passages. You seem to limit the scope of what is passage refers to. It isn't a good idea to put God in such a small box.
 
dwb001 said:
So you haven't asked me any questions that would bring clarity. You are stating your opinion... and you know what they say about opinions.

I disagree with your assessment of the passages. You seem to limit the scope of what is passage refers to. It isn't a good idea to put God in such a small box.
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Giving my opinion is more than what you have done. It says what it says and I have never once read or heard anyone say differently, for, what is to me, obvious reasons.

Anyway, my only point was that the whole discussion presumes that a "rapture" is biblical, yet there was no definition of what the rapture is or a biblical reference to it. First things should come first.
 
Free said:
Giving my opinion is more than what you have done. It says what it says and I have never once read or heard anyone say differently, for, what is to me, obvious reasons.
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You now have heard someone say differently. So you can't say that anymore.
And your reasons are not obvious to me.
Free said:
Anyway, my only point was that the whole discussion presumes that a "rapture" is biblical, yet there was no definition of what the rapture is or a biblical reference to it. First things should come first.
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I pointed out the reference that does point to the rapture. If you can't see it that does not fall on my shoulders.

Again... you ask no questions.
 
dwb001 said:
Nope. But you wanted to keep to the Scriptural terms... but if you want to do that then at least be honest enough with yourself to admit that honest language would be Greek. Or allow for different words for the same event.
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No, Greek is not the honest language. The Resurrection is the honest word.
 
dwb001 said:
You now have heard someone say differently. So you can't say that anymore.
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No, I can't. However, having never heard a pastor, scholar, theologian, or commentary is a significant difference from one random person on the Internet.

dwb001 said:
And your reasons are not obvious to me.
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Even with the bolding and the short commentary?

dwb001 said:
I pointed out the reference that does point to the rapture. If you can't see it that does not fall on my shoulders.
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Where?

dwb001 said:
Again... you ask no questions.
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Neither do you.
 
dwb001 said:
Rev. 20:12-13
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With no commentary or any reason given as to how it supports the idea of a rapture. As I said, even an atheist can post Scripture, but it doesn't mean they've understood what they've posted. It's like you've taken the common idea of the rapture and completely given it your own meaning. That is unnecessarily confusing when you seem to be just referring to the final resurrection and judgement.

dwb001 said:
I am not trying to understand your point of view so why would I ask questions?
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Kind of says it all, doesn't it?
 
Free said:
With no commentary or any reason given as to how it supports the idea of a rapture. As I said, even an atheist can post Scripture, but it doesn't mean they've understood what they've posted. It's like you've taken the common idea of the rapture and completely given it your own meaning. That is unnecessarily confusing when you seem to be just referring to the final resurrection and judgement.


Kind of says it all, doesn't it?
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So you don't want to understand my point of view and that is why you don't ask anything?
Why should I provide commentary that may be confusing to you? Would it not be better for you to ask for clarification and then I provide it?
 
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