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When it's time to realize you're dealing with a lying spirit?

Jethro Bodine

Jethro Bodine

Member
Serious question here, folks.

I know we're all busy discerning doctrines and sorting things out as we talk about and debate Christian doctrine. But when is it time to realize you're dealing with a lying spirit in someone? Are we to consider them a brother/sister if they are entertaining a lying spirit?

Now I know Christianity is not about what you know, but who you are--that is, your character. The environment where the lying spirit seems to find a home is where there is pride and arrogance in a person. It is there that I see doctrine becoming a matter of character, and thus, a matter of what we're really dealing with.

What do you think?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I know we're all busy discerning doctrines and sorting things out as we talk about and debate Christian doctrine. But when is it time to realize you're dealing with a lying spirit in someone? Are we to consider them a brother/sister if they are entertaining a lying spirit?
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Well, I think we need to remember that during and after the reformation there have been very Godly men who have debated scripture and doctrines, and sometimes they became very heated debates. But when it came down to the nitty gritty, they loved each other in Christ, and did not claim the other brother was not saved.
Did pride get in the way sometimes, I don't know, but we are all human so that is a real possibility, such like it is here in the forums.
Each person needs to judge themselves, not others.
 
I figure sometimes all I can do is agree to disagree, let people think what they want to think if they're so determined to think it that it's nearly impossible to change their mind. I tend to think that the motives of others isn't so easily determined, though. Sometimes I have held onto ideas stubbornly, not because I'm lying but because I really don't want to believe they're untrue. Plus we all, as human beings, have a tendency to reject things that contradict our highly held principles.
 
To me, there is a big difference between a "lying spirit" and someone who is simply standing up for their beliefs, even when their beliefs are wrong. To me, if their beliefs are wrong all I can do is try to show them why I think they are wrong, while trying my best to remember that it could also be ME who is wrong too. None of us has access to the full knowledge of God, so none of us know it all, even though some act ike they do. I don't think most people will come to a forum like this to deliberately and knowingly tell a bunch of lies, and that's more the kind of thing I think of when I hear the term "lying spirit".
 
Obadiah said:
To me, there is a big difference between a "lying spirit" and someone who is simply standing up for their beliefs, even when their beliefs are wrong. To me, if their beliefs are wrong all I can do is try to show them why I think they are wrong, while trying my best to remember that it could also be ME who is wrong too. None of us has access to the full knowledge of God, so none of us know it all, even though some act ike they do. I don't think most people will come to a forum like this to deliberately and knowingly tell a bunch of lies, and that's more the kind of thing I think of when I hear the term "lying spirit".
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That is a good answer. You don't determine a lying spirit in someone who does not believe like you do. We all know things in part, so it's pride that thinks your 100% right over someone, when in truth when you only have part yourself.

We need to be convinced of what we believe. Peter warned about people being moved from their foundation of faith and becoming unstable.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
(2Pe 3:16-17)

So boldness and surety may sound prideful if you don't agree, but someone that is not sure about things, like there being eternal punishment might also be led away to believe something that is false.

I think it's sufficient to show others what we believe in scripture. You can tell a religious spirit on someone who is dogmatic about keeping some Sabbath, only God can open those eyes.
 
jasonc said:
im not naming anyone but we do have posters here that come across that way.
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When you point a finger at others, you are also pointing three at yourself.

Anyhow, the best way to avoid this angst is to state your position, back it up with Scripture, and move on. Prolonged debates are unprofitable. The shorter the better. The K-I-S-S principle is always good.
 
Malachi said:
When you point a finger at others, you are also pointing three at yourself.

Anyhow, the best way to avoid this angst is to state your position, back it up with Scripture, and move on. Prolonged debates are unprofitable. The shorter the better. The K-I-S-S principle is always good.
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I have been called by some here that couldn't say it openly as twisting the word of god because I didn't agree with their view on eschatology. how does adding to taking words in the last book include that when I haven't done that?

I have never to my knowledge done that to anyone here. I don't believe in theistic evolution but we have members that do. I don't consider them to have a lying spirit.
 
I came here as a pretribber die hard one at that. I never thought those that disagreed were lost or lying. just odd and misinformed. those that debated then(some are still here, one is a mod) will vouch for my honesty and sincerity. those that were that way changed my views as they challenged me to look and see what the bible says not what I was told it says.

I also was a religious right leaning in voting. now im a close to libertarian. that wasn't just from members here but a man that I know personally who challenged me and things I saw in the military.
 
questdriven said:
I think there are very few instances where I would even consider that someone has a lying spirit. I can disagree with others on the most basic of levels, think they're very mistaken, but I believe in assuming the best about others.
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Yeah, even as a mod now, and with all the things we see that others don't, I can't recall anyone I would say this about. Pride, arrogance, rudeness, lies, and many other things... yes. But to me a "lying spirit" is something far worse than simply a differing belief or a few lies (purposeful lies, not just mistakes) or insults said in the heat of an argument.
 
jasonc said:
im not naming anyone but we do have posters here that come across that way.
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No? not on this board. :thud:)

Obadiah said:
To me, there is a big difference between a "lying spirit" and someone who is simply standing up for their beliefs, even when their beliefs are wrong.
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Yes, and you need to clarify that, Jethro. Standing up for their idea of what the bible means/beliefs is fine in my view. If you are talking about an unsaved individual, I think you are allowed to hang with them or whatever it takes to get them saved. On the other hand, if we are talking about this Guy/Gal......

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

.....and they are a perpetual liar (if that's what you mean by lying spirit) then, I think you are to stay away from them. You might even want to explain why, but I guess that depends on the circumstances.

 
jasonc said:
I have been called by some here that couldn't say it openly as twisting the word of god because I didn't agree with their view on eschatology. how does adding to taking words in the last book include that when I haven't done that?

I have never to my knowledge done that to anyone here. I don't believe in theistic evolution but we have members that do. I don't consider them to have a lying spirit.
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I'm going to stay away from the who too on this, but since it seems to concern you, and maybe others and being bothered/hurt by this may be ongoing with you, I should say it's happened to me too and once you take a good close look at what is going on, you realize it's not you and you shouldn't worry about it in the least. As you say, people here know you and that speaks for itself. And FWIW, IMO, it speaks well in your case.

It didn't hurt me so much as make me furious but we all react differently to those things. Some even have the class to just let that type thing slide....sometimes I wish I could do that and sometimes not.
 
Deborah13 said:
Well, I think we need to remember that during and after the reformation there have been very Godly men who have debated scripture and doctrines, and sometimes they became very heated debates. But when it came down to the nitty gritty, they loved each other in Christ, and did not claim the other brother was not saved.
Did pride get in the way sometimes, I don't know, but we are all human so that is a real possibility, such like it is here in the forums.
Each person needs to judge themselves, not others.
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In regard to the right to 'judge' other's salvation I was keying off these scriptures:

15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17 NASB)

6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6 NASB)

Jesus gives us the room to decide who should be regarded as an unbeliever. We are to do that when someone in the church refuses reconciliation. And when we are sharing the Word of God. Somewhere along the line we have to decide who is a 'gentile' (one without God), a 'tax collector' (an enemy of the people of God?), and a 'dog', and a 'sow'.
 
A lying spirit can only be sent by God. It does not have permission or the authority to operate of one's own accord. 2 Chronicles 18 NKJV / 1 Kings 22 NKJV
 
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