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Many will refute this but MarkT you are absolutely right about the Spirit we call Jesus being created of God from the beginning before the second heaven (firmament) in Genesis 1:7 (Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens, Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29. The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.)

Genesis 1:1 God created the (first) heaven (Atmosphere) and the earth. If God would have created the second heaven where the sun, moon and stars are then the sun would have already given its light to the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In verse 2 we see the earth was already made at one time, but was without form and void, which means the earth needed reformed or renewed from the sin of those who once inhabited it, but were annihilated for there was no one that had favor in the Lord God thus the verses in Genesis 1:28; 9:1 to replenish the earth as per Genesis 1:1.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Now we can see in verses 3-7 in a numbered order that God created a new Spirit which we call Christ Jesus as being the same spirit form of God as God is Spirit without form. This Spirit (Jesus) God created he said was good and God divided the light (Jesus) from the darkness (sin) and this was the first day This is where we see in 2Peter 1:19 a light that shineth in the darkness until the day dawn and the day star arise in your heart. Then in verse 7 we see God creating the firmament (second heaven sun, moon and stars) and then from there on a new creation of people to rehabit the earth and to replenish it.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. meaning God is the word sent down to earth in the form of flesh (Jesus) to walk among us teaching us Gods word.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life (Jesus) was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light (Jesus) shineth in darkness (sin); and the darkness (sinful people) comprehended it not.

The reason we call God and Jesus both Lord is because it is all Gods Spirit manifested in three separate forms, but all the same Spirit. God is Spirit without form, but can take on any form for us to see and hear him thus Jesus is the created Spiritual form of God made to come down to earth in the flesh to teach us the word of God and to be made the final blood sacrifice fulfilling the sacrificial law that Jew and Gentile could be reconciled back to Gods grace through forgiveness of sin as we repent of them. Still today Jew and Gentile reject Jesus as Messiah and and this is the darkness not comprehending the light, John 1:5.
 
Friendly reminder from the SoF.

There is one true God, eternally existing in three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, born of a virgin, totally without sin, God in human flesh, the One Who died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose again from the dead on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven, where He now intercedes for us who believe in Him.
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Also, let's remember that there is currently a moratorium against new trinity topics.
 
Did the Lord Jesus Christ ever identify Himself as God ? Yes, He did, at least four times. Here we Go Rev 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 21:6

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:12-13

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

The Glorified Christ Identifies Himself with these words : I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last

Also, lest we forget, that in Rev 1:8 He Identifies Himself as the Almighty ! Now by identifying Himself thusly, He Identifies Himself as Jehovah God Isa 41:4

4Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa 44:6

6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 48:10-12

10Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
 
We know Jesus is God by Him Being the Great High Priest that Isaiah had the Vision of Isa 6:1-3

1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Now I know that John writes in His Gospel, 12th Chapter that this vision of the Lord sitting upon a Throne and His attending Glory:

2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Jn 12:41

41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

John yet again Identifies Jesus as this Jehovah of Hosts in Rev 1:13

13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

This vision and the vision of Isa 6:1 speaks to the Lord Jehovah Christ as being our Great High Priest, the One who shed His Blood for His sinful People . That is why Isaiah heard these words Isa 6:7

7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

In Isa 6:1 Isiah said the Lord had on a train or that His Train filled the Temple ! The word Train is the hebrew word shuwl and means:


skirt (of robe)

a) of high priest's robe

Both Prophets, Isaiah and John saw the Glorified Christ ! It could not have been the Father in a vision with High priest garments on, it was the Son, for it is He that was appointed a Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec.

Yet what does Isaiah call Him ?

In vs 1 He calls Him 'Adonay :


my lord, lord

a) of men

b) of God

2) Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence

David saw Him too as 'Adonay Here 100: 1,4 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Here also the Melchisedec Priesthood was in view as we see in vs 4

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

And Isa called the Same Being He saw in the vision this also Isa 6:3

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

The Lord of Host's, the hebrew word for Lord here is Yĕhovah

And John said that it was Christ He saw Jn 12:41 !

It could be no clearer proof from the Scripture that Jesus is Jehovah God also ! Rev 1:13 just confirms it more !
 
Posting to hook into email notices, BUT LSU and Alabama are on soon, one of my son-in-laws is an LSU grad and a fanatical fan and here with my daughter and some friends to watch the big game and eat pizza...:yes

s
 
smaller said:
Posting to hook into email notices, BUT LSU and Alabama are on soon, one of my son-in-laws is an LSU grad and a fanatical fan and here with my daughter and some friends to watch the big game and eat pizza...:yes

s
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I hope you enjoyed the game. You can read my posts and let me know what a deluded heretic I am tomorrow. Muahahahahaha!:eeeekkk:shrug:toofunny
 
All things Created For Him !


The Lord Jesus Christ is God because all things are or were created for Him !

Col 1:16

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Rev 4:11

11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The same prep is used in Col 1:16 by Him

Rev 4:11 for thy pleasure !

Prov 16:4

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
 
Rev 1:18


Rev 1:18

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

The Lord Jesus Christ is God because He is Sovereign over Death, for He has the Keys of both Hell and Death, for these are only prerogatives God can rightfully have, So He must be God as a Man. The word keys is the greek word kleis and means:


a key

a) since the keeper of the keys has the power to open and to shut

b) metaph. in the NT to denote power and authority of various kinds

The Key means ownership, dominion, authority and control. The Lord Jesus Christ is Sovereign over the death's of individuals, over all flesh Jn 17:2

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Also it matters not that it was given to Him, for that pertains only to Him as The Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator, and it is because God the Father would give Him such Authority as a Man, that He must be God Also, because only God has these prerogatives !

It is Christ's will who determines who lives, who dies, when we die or if we will die.Jesus said once to His disciples Jn 21:22

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Ps 68:20

He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord adonay belong the issues from death.

Deut 32:39

39See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.


For Job had the Lord Jesus Christ in mind when he spake these words Job 19:25,26

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

He is speaking of being in the Resurrection. Jesus told Lazarus sisters Jn 11:25

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
 
Did Jesus ever indicate that He is God ?

Rev 2:23:

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

The Church shall know that I AM HE that searcheth that searcheth the reins and Hearts !

Folks, there is only One that has this ability, and that is God ! Lets compare Jer 11:20

20But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause.

Jer 17:10

10I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

This is who Jesus is claiming to be in Rev 2:23

1 Kgs 8:39,28

39Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men )

This is verse is part of a prayer of Solomon and we know who is Praying to from vs 28

28Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:

Now He was inspired to say that God only knowest the hearts of all men, to:

" give to every man according to his ways"

Now notice what Jesus said in Rev 2:23

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Now if Jesus isn't claiming to be Jehovah, or if He is not Jehovah, He is a Liar !

But as He said, the True Church will know that He is the One that searcheth the reins and hearts !

Those who cannot receive this Truth, they know not God, the True God !
 
The demons know !


The demons or devil's know that Jesus is God, even as the Son of God, for they know it is He that will Judge them in the Day of Judgment and confine them to everlasting torment !

Matt 8:27-29

27But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

29And, behold, they [The devils] cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

That time is Judgment Day ! They know it. And they know that He is God, the One and Only to be able to punish them !

Note 2 Pet 2:24

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Yes, I am equating the devils as fallen angels, just as I understand the Devil, Satan to be a fallen Angel !

That word torment the devils used, is the same word used here Rev 14:9-10

9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 
savedbygrace57 said:
The demons know !

The demons or devil's know that Jesus is God, even as the Son of God, for they know it is He that will Judge them in the Day of Judgment and confine them to everlasting torment !
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If the devil is a liar with 'no truth' in him and says "I believe" is the devil telling the truth?

Here we have devils proclaiming Jesus the Son of God:

Mark 3:11
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

and here we have them worshiping God:

Mark 5:
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

s
 
Only God has Immortality. (In Eternity, all directions!)
Christ was the one of the Godhead who was pre/ordained to become the Son of God as the second Adam. By doing this, He could use NO Power except is at our disposal. Adam's sinful nature.

Christ was the God the 'Rock that followed them' in the O.T. We see prophecy that He would become the Son of God. (Psalms 2:7, Acts 13:33 + Heb. 1:5) Yet He was fully God before this agreed to limitation!

Where much of ones problem arises from, seem's to be Rom. 4:17 last part of the verse? The Word of God does indeed do this (with & about Christ) & man seem's to not comprehend that God can & does know ETERNITY!:thumbsup

Rom. 4
'.... even God, who quickeneth the dead, and [[calleth those things which be not]] asthough they were.'

And, we see two Immortal ones (God) with an Image in Gen. And also God the Spirit (verse 1 on) creating. God is a Spirit, Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit.

--Elijah
 
Jesus is the Lord of Hosts Isaiah saw with his eyes !

Isa 6:1-5

1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah said his eyes has seen the Jehovah of Hosts. Now who did he see ? Notice he said also I am a man of unclean lips !

Now realize this when answering this important question, that Jesus said this about the Father Jn 6:46

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Now, since Isaiah was a man of unclean lips, and he said with his eyes he seen the LORD of Hosts, and Jesus says no man hath seen the Father, then who did Isaiah see with his eyes as the LORD of hosts ?
 
Jesus Christ is God because He is Judge !


It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is to come and Judge the world or the earth in Righteousness Acts 17:31

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

The word by is the preposition en, meaning God will be in the Man Christ Jesus Judging the World, the Man will be God . Scripture only gives us One to whom the World will be Judged by Ps 9:7-8

7But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment.

8And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

Jehovah here, which is to Judge the World in Righteousness, Does so in The Man Jesus Christ, they are the Same, The Man Christ fulfills this prophecy !

Notice Ps 96:13

13 Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

I believe this is what Enoch had in mind here Jude 1:14-15

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These scriptures more than anything Identifies Him [ The Man Jesus Christ] as the God Man, the Jehovah prophesied to come and Judge the world, or the inhabited earth in Righteousness.

The Lord Jesus Christ has a Two-Fold right to Judge the World in Righteousness, He has a Inherent Right because He is Jehovah The Word Jn 1:1, and He has a earned or acquired Right as the Mediator and His accomplishments thereby, earning the Right as a Man by His obedience unto the Cross Phil 2:8-11

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now, this same scripture is prophesied in Isa 45:21-23


21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Thats the Man Christ Jesus speaking right there as God and Saviour, and none besides Him !

Those who are rejected of God, and their perdition sure, will not be able to see or acknowledge the Truthfulness of this post showing that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God, the coming Judge of the Earth !
 
Jesus is God also !

I shared some time back a paper with the study of the Two Jehovah's, which I found very interesting. After studying the author however, i do find that I am not in agreement with all that he presents, so by no means should this be taken as a endorsement for all the author presents. But that which I do find agreeable are the points presented about the Two Jehovahs of Ps 110 !

1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

The Two Jehovahs of Psalm 110

Quote:
Psalm 110 gives us undeniable Scriptural evidence that there were two divine Beings Who were both known as Jehovah in Old Testament times. In the first verse of Psalm 110, David was inspired to prophesy that a divine Being called Adon would be invited to sit at the right hand of a divine Being called Jehovah. In the original Hebrew text, the same divine Being Who is called Adon in Verse 1 is called Jehovah in Verse 5. Psalm 110 is actually describing one Jehovah sitting beside another Jehovah! The word Jehovah in Verse 5, however, was altered by the Levitical Massorites to read Adonay. The Levites were hiding the truth that the Adon of Verse 1 was a second Jehovah!

In the original Hebrew text, Psalm 110 clearly reveals two Jehovahs sitting beside each other, one speaking to the other and foretelling future events. This psalm contains an explicit prophecy of a Jehovah/Adon who would become both the Messiah and the High Priest of a new priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Notice carefully these prophetic verses in Psalm 110. Sections in bold are those passages which have been quoted in the New Testament.


“The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] said unto my Lord [Hebrew Adon, the Messiah], Sit Thou [the Messiah] at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool [quoted in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42-43, Acts 2:34-35, Hebrews 1:13]. The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] shall send the rod of Thy strength out of Zion: rule Thou [the Messiah] in the midst of Thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou [the Messiah] hast the dew of Thy youth. The LORD [Hebrew Jehovah] hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [the Messiah] art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek [quoted in Hebrews 5:6 and 7:17] “ (Psa. 110:1-4).

The following verses continue the prophetic description of this Adon Who would become the Messiah. Notice especially Verse 5. In this verse, the Hebrew name Yhvh, or Jehovah, in the original Hebrew text was changed by the Massorites to read Adonay.


“The Lord [Hebrew Adonay, originally Jehovah, referring to the Messiah] at Thy [the first Jehovah’s] right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath. He [Jehovah, the Messiah] shall judge among the heathen, He shall fill the places with the dead bodies; He shall wound the heads over many countries. He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall He lift up the head†(Psa. 110:5-7).

Verse 5 in the original Hebrew text clearly shows two Jehovahs! This key verse in Psalm 110 identifies the Adon in Verse 1 as a second Jehovah. The context reveals that this Jehovah/Adon sitting at the right hand of the first Jehovah is the Messiah. The recorded words of Jesus Christ Himself attest to this very fact.
The writer says that in the original hebrew the word Lord in vs 5 was actually Jehovah, and it was descriptive of the Lord[ 'adown]
of vs 1
 
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