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Who is Righteous?

  • Thread starter Thread starter elijah23
  • Start date Start date
but we do have to stop sinning. Jesus said so.

SO how are YOU doing with the business of living "sinlessly", 'ol buddy????
 
NOBODY -

"Some people repent of their sin and are, by definition, righteous."

Only by YOUR definition. "Repentance" all by itself accomplished NOTHING.

"Others do not repent of their sin but consider themselves righteous anyway. Are they?"

Of course not. NOTHING that we can "do" in terms of "Works" has any effect on "Righteousness".

Simple as that.
 
All for whom Christ died, have been clothed with His Perfect Law Keeping Righteousness, and God counts them as sinless and as perfet as Christ, by grace..
 
All for whom Christ died, have been clothed with His Perfect Law Keeping Righteousness, and God counts them as sinless and as perfet as Christ, by grace..

No, not ALL. Many. But even more of those He died for reject his ransom. They will be clothed with shame.

Matthew 7:14 NLT
But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.



There is no intermediary group. There are followers of Christ, and there are all others:


John 12:48 NLT
But all who reject me and my message will be judged on the day of judgment by the truth I have spoken.
 
Perfection is the requirement. Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9
And total MATURITY is demanded. Death before DISHONOR OF OPEN KNOWN SIN. Dan. 3:16-8.
And 666 will be the FINAL TEST to see if you'ins are safe to save for eternity! Nah. 1:9. Think of the dark ages for ones repeat. Eccl. 3:15

--Elijah (674, not my other buddy!:waving)
 
Re: but we do have to stop sinning. Jesus said so.

SO how are YOU doing with the business of living "sinlessly", 'ol buddy????

I have slipped several times recently and felt miserable each time afterwards.
 
You stated that my statement that we need to stop sinning sounded trite, so my response was that it was short and to the point, but that I could make it more complicated if you wished.

Yes, I believe in Christian perfection, in that Jesus told us we needed to be perfect.

So are you perfect?
 
Re: NOBODY -

"Some people repent of their sin and are, by definition, righteous."

Only by YOUR definition. "Repentance" all by itself accomplished NOTHING.

"Others do not repent of their sin but consider themselves righteous anyway. Are they?"

Of course not. NOTHING that we can "do" in terms of "Works" has any effect on "Righteousness".

Simple as that.

I would encourage you to obey the teachings of Jesus, which are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
 
All for whom Christ died, have been clothed with His Perfect Law Keeping Righteousness, and God counts them as sinless and as perfet as Christ, by grace..

I would also encourage you to obey the teachings of Jesus, which are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
 
So are you perfect?

No. I am trying to be.

So many people seem so eager to protest the idea that we need to be perfect, that few seem interested in just what exactly it means to be perfect. Why?
 
No. I am trying to be.

So many people seem so eager to protest the idea that we need to be perfect, that few seem interested in just what exactly it means to be perfect. Why?

Why do people lower standards of perfection? Obviously to make themselves acceptable before God.

I certainly would not protest the idea that the criteria is that we need to be perfect. We are to be holy as God is holy. The standard of perfection is God himself. Of course to me it seems blasphemous to claim to be as holy and righteous as God, but that is the standard and I do not intend to minimize it. But I would also suggest, that anyone who believes that they have been righteous enough to get their salvation by works, or keep their own salvation by their own self-righteousness is minimizing the absolute standard of Gods holiness. We fall so far short, that our salvation, even maintaining our salvation is only by the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
 
Why do people lower standards of perfection? Obviously to make themselves acceptable before God.

I certainly would not protest the idea that the criteria is that we need to be perfect. We are to be holy as God is holy. The standard of perfection is God himself. Of course to me it seems blasphemous to claim to be as holy and righteous as God, but that is the standard and I do not intend to minimize it. But I would also suggest, that anyone who believes that they have been righteous enough to get their salvation by works, or keep their own salvation by their own self-righteousness is minimizing the absolute standard of Gods holiness. We fall so far short, that our salvation, even maintaining our salvation is only by the grace of God and the blood of Christ.

We destroy our lives by sinning, but when we turn to the Lord, he restores our lives. Still, we can’t be happy until we stop sinning, can we?
 
What is the definition of "righteous?"
[Job 1:1, 8 KJV] - There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. ... And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

It is a good idea to know what we are talking about. Who can name 7 characteristics of Job that define his righteousness?
 
We destroy our lives by sinning, but when we turn to the Lord, he restores our lives. Still, we can’t be happy until we stop sinning, can we?

I think of Mary Poppins. Did you ever watch the movie as a kind. She holds up a measuring tape and measures the two children, the boy is obstinate. She measures herself and she is "practically perfect in every way."

Is that really that different from "I try to be perfect, but wen I fail, I confess my sins?"

I have been saying the standard of holiness is God... "be ye holy as I am holy." I don't think anyone gets even close. Not even Mary Poppins. The holiness of God is so far beyond us, so far above us, that when we get to see the real holiness of God, we will all fall as dead men at his feet, just like John. We will say as Isaiah, "woe is me, I am undone." The problem is what I mentioned before, we do not merely do sins, we do not merely do evil deeds, we are evil.

Let me say it another way. The person who thinks he repents of all his sins has not begun to understand his own evil. Now in the Christian life, regeneration occurred, the Spirit came and guides us into all holiness, and God has given us all the tools we need to live as workmen for him. The Christian life is not one of sin, but of holiness. We will live more righteous lives, because it is the nature of the Christian to do so. Those who resist will be chastened, and some will die. God will remove some from this world before they sin too much.

Nevertheless, I do not believe anyone in this life will ever accomplish the standard of God "be ye holy as I am holy!" That is a mark in which we will always fall short, but that is the mark or the standard of the Christian life.

I have no problem with you calling Christians to live by a higher standard. I support you in calling Christians to repent of sin. I cannot agree with your attitude that if we just repent of all our sins, every thing will be OK. Yes, we should repent of sins, but that will never really cover it. Such an attitude does not recognize the exceeding evil from which we came, and the fact that evil still lives within us. To God be the glory, he has given us the tools to be overcomers, but in my opinion, if we focus on the confession of sin, and self righteousness, then we miss two things... the power of sin, and the standard of God.

In Romans 7:8 there is a passage that says....
8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. The word "sin" here does not refer to individual personal sins, but to the evil that lives within us. Others commonly call it sin nature. Sin nature comes alive when the Christian focuses on keeping the law. This can be any law. It is like putting a line in the sand and telling people not to step over the line. What do they do? Yes, they put their big hairy toe right over that line. Why? Flesh! Sin! But if the line is not there, and we focus on Christ, and we seek to please him, and we follow him, that is the victory.

I am not saying that we do not repent of sin. I am saying, if that's all you think about in your Christian life, you will fail. Also, I am saying that it is self-righteous to even think that we can be perfect. That is not to excuse sins, but rather just the oposite, it is to admit how evil and guilty we actually are. It is to admit how much more holy God is then we are ourselves. That admission is the beginning of repentance.

To fall on our faces, and to admit that we are so guilty that we can never even begin to name all our sins, to admit we do not merely just sin, but we are sinners, is the beginning of repentance. That is so much more then saying I goofed today when I got angry and I am sorry and will not do it again. Certainly we should admit our "goofs," we should repent of our failures, but more then that, we should admit we are living failures, and that sin runs deep.
 
Yes, admit that we are less than perfect as humans in the natural, but realize that by the blood of Jesus Christ, God sees us as already perfect. Get up off the floor, wash your faces and walk out into the world in the light of life that Jesus has given us!

We are the salt of the earth and the light of the world!


Let's lift up our heads and get out there and live like it!
 
I have been saying the standard of holiness is God... "be ye holy as I am holy." I don't think anyone gets even close.

Don’t be quick to give up on being perfect. Jesus’ teachings give us a standard. Are any of them too difficult to obey?
 
Don’t be quick to give up on being perfect. Jesus’ teachings give us a standard. Are any of them too difficult to obey?

Romans 7:8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of coveting: for apart from the law sin is dead.

If it is natural for us to obey the commands of Christ, then he would not have needed to give them. The NT has constant exortations and even condemnations of sinners. The verse above suggests that the commandments are so hard to obey, that when combined with human sin nature, the commandment will bring all sorts of "coveting."

Are they hard to obey? Certainly! No one succeeds in obeying them. The scriptures say that there is "none righteous, not even one."
 
Matt 13:43

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The righteous here are those who were made righteous by the obedience of One..

rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The effective cause of their being made righteous was the obedience of Christ, that being His death phil 2:


8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
 
Romans 7:8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of coveting: for apart from the law sin is dead.

If it is natural for us to obey the commands of Christ, then he would not have needed to give them. The NT has constant exortations and even condemnations of sinners. The verse above suggests that the commandments are so hard to obey, that when combined with human sin nature, the commandment will bring all sorts of "coveting."

Are they hard to obey? Certainly! No one succeeds in obeying them. The scriptures say that there is "none righteous, not even one."

They have all fallen away;
they are all alike depraved;
there is none that does good,
no, not one. Psalms 53:6 RSV

This is not a justification for sin. In this verse the Lord is complaining that nobody is trying to do his will.

You don’t know if the Lord’s will is hard to obey until you try to obey it. I’m suggesting it isn’t as hard as people think.
 
Luk 18:9 ¶ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 - The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 - I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 - And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 - I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 
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