So regarding your original question about the "armies of heaven", are you now saying that "angels" must be what are meant, and that any attempt to say otherwise is not believing what Jesus said?
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Who is the army of Rev. 19: 14.
- Thread starter Marilyn C
- Start date
Marilyn C
Member
That`s right.
Marilyn C
Member
What I am saying is - Do we believe Jesus spoke the truth when He said that the Holy angels will come with Him when He comes in His glory to bring vengeance upon the rebellious
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
See that you are confounding heaven with SKY. These are two different things. One is spiritual, another mere material.
He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; John 3:v.31-32
1 Corinthians 15:v.45-49
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made of the dust of the ground, a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural(earthly); and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Ephesians 1:v.3 - 3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places (In what heavenly PLACES are you/we being blessed?) in Christ. - Yeah, in what heaven are you? By the way, our conversation is in heaven, do you?
Matthew 6:10 kjv
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
We must be born again.
eddif
Revelation 12:v.7 - 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon (the red Dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world): ; and the Dragon fought and his angels (2 Corinthians 11:v.13-15 - 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if HIS MINISTERS-(MINISTERS OF SATAN) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
,
JESUS said: Matthew 13:v.39-43 -
39 The enemy that sowed the tares is the Devil; the harvest is THE END OF THE WORLD; and the REAPERS are the ANGELS.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire;so shall it be IN THE END OF THIS (CURRENT) WORLD.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his REAPERS, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
1 Thessalonians 4:v.15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord-the Word is GOD-, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel-Michael, the warrior- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (Revelation 12:v.7 - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his messengers fought against the Dragon (the red Dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world): ; and the Dragon fought and his messengers).
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Amen
Revelation 11:v.15-18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth. (This prophecy is already fulfilling LITERALLY, but the worst is to come. The time to begin the ETERNAL CHASTISEMENT AGAINST ALL NATIONS arrived.)
Revelation 5:v.10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Marilyn C
Member
Hi Oseas,
You are just connecting scriptures to do with Michael the archangel. However my OP is in relation to God bringing vengeance upon His enemies. And the Lord Himself tells us who will do that - Himself and His mighty, holy angels.
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with HIS MIGHTY ANGELS.` (2 Thess. 1: 7)
I am here to discuss those scriptures but I will not respond to your mixing up of God`s word.
The battle within the Church of the Lord(His body), His Kingdom, GOD's Kingdom
What did JESUS say? Matthew 13:v. 40-43and 39
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; - read Revelation 12:v. 7 to 13
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
39 - The harvest is the END OF THE WORLD; and the reapers are the angels.
Consequences of the battle among us - the believers of all nations
Matthew 25:v.32-34 and 41and 31
32 And before JESUS shall be gathered ALL nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand,Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:NOTE:a new world will be established by/through JESUS-Luke20:v.35-36
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his angels:
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Revelation 11:v.15to18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
Get ready
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by him)and LORD of lords
With all due respect for your understanding, I already gave what scripture says about three heavens and that which is contained in each one. I see no need of further discussing this with you.
2Peter 3:v. 7 and 10 - 7 - The heavens and the earth, which are now (which were created by GOD-JESUS, both are One), by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 10 -This Day of the Lord comes, in the which the heavens(The heavens and the earth which are now, both 1st and 2nd heavens) shall pass away with a great noise...,the EARTH ALSO, and the works that are therein(religious services, cults, preachings of Gospel, all kind of religious services, etc.) shall be burned up.
Luke 20:v.35-36 - 35 They which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that world(next world), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection. Matthew 5:v.5 - 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Revelation 5:v. 10 - JESUS has made us-true believers-unto our God kings and priests: and we shall REIGN on the earth.
Revelation 11:v. 15 to 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which are, and was, and are to come; because thou has taken to thee thy great power, and has reigned.
18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth. (The ETERNAL punishments started, by the way, it will be from now on)
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Amen
Get ready
Luke 20:v.35-36 - 35 They which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that world(next world), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection. Matthew 5:v.5 - 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Revelation 5:v. 10 - JESUS has made us-true believers-unto our God kings and priests: and we shall REIGN on the earth.
Revelation 11:v. 15 to 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which are, and was, and are to come; because thou has taken to thee thy great power, and has reigned.
18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth. (The ETERNAL punishments started, by the way, it will be from now on)
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Amen
Get ready
Marilyn C
Member
Again you are mixing scriptures to how you want them. Thus I will not discuss further with you.
Marilyn C
Member
Now someone suggested that `aggelos,` can be a messenger or an angel. Not sure who asked that question, but will answer it here as we are talking about who are the armies following the Lord.
So yes `aggelos` can be a messenger or an angel. So let`s look at the context and related scriptures.
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, & all the HOLY ANGELS with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
So when the Lord comes in power and glory are `holy messengers` coming with Him? I think not for they don`t deliver a message.
1. However when the Lord comes in power and glory His mighty, holy angels also come in power and glory they are intent on war.
The Lord `in righteousness he judges and makes war.....He Himself treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.` (Rev. 19: 11 & 15)
2. The Lord comes in power and glory and the holy angels come power and glory. Compare Revelation 19 which uses symbols.
`the Son of Man .....comes in His own glory, & in His Father`s glory & in the glory of the HOLY ANGELS.` (Luke 9: 26)
`Behold a white horse....and the armies clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 11 & 15)
fine linen, white and clean - symbolizes being holy. (see Rev. 15: 6 for angels also clothed in pure bright linen)
white - light, glory.
horse - power.
Marilyn.
You are doing a great job.
Isaiah 2:4 kjv
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
The dual nature we deal with.
2 sides
1. Our anger is re-directed toward growth
2. Growth is re-directed towards punishment
This way we are slower toward anger, and motivated toward helping others grow.
Our zeal just needs judgement and direction.
How do we ourselves explain this to ourselves and others?
eddif
Scriptures explain Scriptures. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD-Hebrews 4:v.12-13. The Word is GOD, didn't you understand yet? https://purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/the-word-is-god-great-mystery.2494/
Presumptions and speculations, conjectures, imaginations, opinions, they mean nothing and are good for nothing, that's exactly the way the Devil likes, thinking is from a human perspective, not from God's perspective.
Who are the angels of the Churches? Be them alive or dead.
n2thelight
Member
What ? I'm not understanding what you saying .
In the Tanakh, the army of God is his people. That does not change in the NT. Just because the church is the bride does not mean it isn't God's army too; Israel was also said to be God's bride
1 Corinthians 5:5 kjv
5. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Under the old covenant Gods people did punishment. Under the new covenant either Satan did punishment, or at the end of times the angels.
Mark 7:13 kjv
13. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
You can always find Jewish writings that are wrong, just like some Christian commentaries that make wrong statements based on tradition.
eddif
By Jewish writings I assume you mean extra-biblical work. But I am referring to the Tanakh itself, not to traditions based on it.