Who is the army of Rev. 19: 14.

[Oseas]

Yes the tribulation will be `cut short` a month from the 70th week, 7 years of Israel`s chastisement.

And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened - Matthew 24:v.22.

 

[n2thelight]

It would be good if one understood the 3 Heaven and Earth ages ,not different Earth's or Heavens , yet the time periods of each

If one would understand the first one , they would see the reason for this 2nd one we are in now ,and why we look forward to the 3rd

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 19:14

The army that returns with Jesus is the army of angels being the host of heaven dressed in God's righteousness that comes down with Him and not the saints. Genesis 1:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; 33:2; 1 Chronicles 18:18; Nehemiah 9:6; Jeremiah 33:22. John 3:13 makes it very clear that no one has ever ascended up to heaven other than Christ. The only thing that goes back to God when we die is the very breath He gave us that made us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastics 12:7.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Hidden In Him,

Good that we agree that the angels are the army coming to bring vengeance upon the world`s armies.

Now I think we need a discussion on `Who is the bride, in time and then in eternity?` Would you like another thread for this or continue?

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn C

First I like to say I am enjoying your threads and the intellect of wisdom and understanding you present. Thank you.

I would suggest you start another thread on the Bride as it would be confusing going back and forth between to subjects in one thread. I too would like you to tag me into it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hello Marilyn
Yes I agree there are different classes ,however from the below it seems all are coming from Heaven with Him

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

When you read these verses we who are alive or in the grave at His coming are then caught up to meet Christ in the air. The only thing that returns back to God when one physically dies is the very breath/Spirit that God breathed into us making us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

By exclusion, the heaven of the heavens was not yet established, only and only the 1st and 2nd heavens were established by GOD through JESUS in these past millenniums. So, would not be the third heaven that was opened?

The third heaven has always been which has no beginning or end.

There are three heavens:

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).





​

 

[Oseas]

The third heaven has always been which has no beginning or end.

There are three heavens:

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).
​

Heaven(s) is / are not SKY, the physical space of the Universe. If this conception is what you imagine or think, be sure that your thinking is from a HUMAN perspective, not from GOD'S perspective.
Where's GOD? What does GOD say?
Isaiah 40:v.21-23
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? (In the beginning-JESUS-was the Word) have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is He that SITTETH UPON THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH(the earth is round or rounded), and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; it is He that stretcheth out the HEAVENS as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (UPON THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH).
23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; He maketh the Judges of the earth as vanity.

And there appeared a great wonder in HEAVEN (not in the SKY); a woman CLOTHED with the sun, and the moon UNDER HER FEET, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And she brought forth a MAN child, who was to rule all nations-REVELATION 11:v.15-18- with a rod of iron: and her child was CAUGHT UP UNTO GOD, and to His throne. (GOD's throne? Psalm 97:v.1-2:
1 The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.
2 Clouds and darkness are round about Him: righteousness and Judgment are the fundation of His throne.

https://friendsofjesus.proboards.com/thread/9748/gods-throne#.Yp1RrBrMLIU

Revelation 12:v.22-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in HEAVEN; and behold A GREAT RED DRAGON, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads.
4 And his TAIL drew the third part of the stars of HEAVEN, and did cast them to the earth: and the DRAGON stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

You, and who thinks like you, need to rethink and study more deeply to understand the differece between HEAVEN and SKY, two distincts environments, and thus to be not deceived by the TAIL of the monstrous RED DRAGON, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads (beyond his SATANIC TAIL), that is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world-Revelation 11:v.9.

Peter, the Apostle, prophesied, saying: The HEAVENS(not SKY) and the earth, which are now (the first two heavens), by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day of Judgment(this Day arrived, the LORD's Day) and perdition of ungodly men.

Be careful and get ready

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn C

First I like to say I am enjoying your threads and the intellect of wisdom and understanding you present. Thank you.

I would suggest you start another thread on the Bride as it would be confusing going back and forth between to subjects in one thread. I too would like you to tag me into it.

Hi for-his-glory,

That was very kind of you to say that. Now you have hit on a very, very, sensitive subject there. However I would be pleased to share what I have been taught, and believe regarding that topic.

And I`ll let you know. Marilyn.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oseas in your post #67 that second quote is not from me as you placed my name at the top of it, but what you had already posted in #58. You made it appear as I said all of that, which I disagree with giving the explanation in post #66.

Please be careful in the future how you place the quotes of others by highlighting the parts you want to quote and then hit the quote button in the reply box.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Marilyn,

You are merely quibbling about something that is very clear and plain. Whether it is "holy ones" or "saints" there is just ONE Scripture where "holy ones" can be construed as angels (Dan 8:13). Period.

There is no ambiguity whatsoever about the saints accompanying Christ at His Second Coming, as n2thelight and Sinthesis have pointed out. And the passage from Rev 19 should be from verses 6 through 14:
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed

1. Does the Lamb (Christ) have a Wife? Yes
2. Is this Wife arrayed in fine linen, clean and white? Yes
3. Does this fine linen represent the imputed righteousness of the saints? Yes
4. Is the army descending with Christ clothed in fine linen, white and clean? Yes

In number 3 you are incorrect. The scripture in Greek actually says
“the righteous acts” of the saints, not merely “righteousness” and certainly not “imputed righteousness” which means no good deeds at all.

I know modern christians don’t like to be told they must obey the teachings of Christ and actually DO what he taught but prefer that all goodness/righteousness is only ever imputed with no good deed ever needed, but this is not true.

In fact, Jesus told one church, body of true believers, that they were “poor, blind, and NAKED.” They had no linen, fine or otherwise even though they had as much imputed righteousness as any believer reading this. They were, according to Jesus, without any garments. He counseled them to buy some rainment. “Buy” not “ask” which requires paying a price.

 

[for_his_glory]

In number 3 you are incorrect. The scripture in Greek actually says
“the righteous acts” of the saints, not merely “righteousness” and certainly not “imputed righteousness” which means no good deeds at all.

I know modern christians don’t like to be told they must obey the teachings of Christ and actually DO what he taught but prefer that all goodness/righteousness is only ever imputed with no good deed ever needed, but this is not true.

In fact, Jesus told one church, body of true believers, that they were “poor, blind, and NAKED.” They had no linen, fine or otherwise even though they had as much imputed righteousness as any believer reading this. They were, according to Jesus, without any garments. He counseled them to buy some rainment. “Buy” not “ask” which requires paying a price.

I'm not nitpicking, but could you please use scripture so we can follow your understanding better, Thank you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not nitpicking, but could you please use scripture so we can follow your understanding better, Thank you.

Thanks for the question and of course.
Rev 19:8
Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

and there was given to her that she may be arrayed with fine linen, pure and shining, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

This is the verse under discussion.

There’s my signature Micah 6:8 too. Do you want more?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn

Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
8it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—

for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

Why do you think the Bride of Christ are OT saints here? Also, do you think the church doesn’t clothe herself with righteous deeds? We will be judged for the deeds done in the body Paul wrote. Jesus’ teaching is chalk full of things we need to do. Therein, is our joy actually although perhaps not at that moment. Do you think these are no longer necessary but was in OT times? Just wondering.

Thanks
D

Hi Dorothy,

I have started a thread on the Bride, so you may want to discuss there.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Oseas]

It would be good if one understood the 3 Heaven and Earth ages ,not different Earth's or Heavens , yet the time periods of each

If one would understand the first one , they would see the reason for this 2nd one we are in now ,and why we look forward to the 3rd

To understand well about heaven(s), and how our GOD creates them, read and meditate deeply on Isaiah 51:v.16, and search to discern how and by the MOUTH of whom He planted the first and the second heavens, actually HEAVENLY environments created here on Earth.

To understand well about heaven(s), and how our GOD creats them, read and meditate deeply on Isaiah 51:v.16, and search to discern how and by the MOUTH of whom He planted the first and the second heavens, actually HEAVENLY environments created here on Earth. .

Find out in what heaven are God's people in this current time, time of the Apocalypse, and what will happen with them according 2 Peter 3:v.7.

Remember: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:Isaiah 40:v.22

God bless

 

[for_his_glory]

Dorothy Mae you and I have gone off topic and as Marilyn C requested let's pick this up in her thread about the Bride of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have moved all the post about the righteousness of God over to the thread https://christianforums.net/threads/the-symbol-of-the-bride.91000/

Please direct your replies about the righteousness of God over to that thread. Any more postings will be deleted as being off topic in this thread. thank you.

 

[Oseas]

Oseas in your post #67 that second quote is not from me as you placed my name at the top of it, but what you had already posted in #58. You made it appear as I said all of that, which I disagree with giving the explanation in post #66.

Please be careful in the future how you place the quotes of others by highlighting the parts you want to quote and then hit the quote button in the reply box.

Sorry, that was not my intention, the system itself did that, however, I think readers will notice that the second quote is my reply to your post 66, according my biblical vision of heaven, or on heavenly places in Christ - Ephesians 1:v.3 and Philippians 3:v.20-21, among others.

Sure, I will be more careful next posts.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We will be judged by our faith which brings about the good works of the Lord here on earth. Faith without works is dead faith. Works without faith is dead works. What we do we need to be doing unto the Lord, not unto ourselves.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Verse after verse above says we will be judged, like the sheep, by what we DID or did not do, not by our faith.

Now you do add faith “which brings about works” but that renders the word a passive outcome without any effort or cost to us. That is what “which brings about” means, a passive outcome. That is very misleading.

This is because it’s easy to deceive yourself that you have faith. What about people who have faith and believe the WRONG thing? They have faith, too. It’s less easy to deceive yourself in appearing to be doing his will when you actually do something.

In the dividing of sheep and goats, or the men with the talents, faith isn’t even mentioned. Hebrews 12 gives a list of what those approved of God did. It says they had faith but not faith alone and that faith is seen by their deeds that are actually CHOSEN in faith.

This, of course, you also said above. Faith without works is dead. But the clear scripture is judged by deeds done, not an internal faith. For no one was their believing alone the important part. Deeds result from choosing rightly against doubt or even fear, that is the point of Hebrews 12. If we wait for faith to generate works that please Him, we will wait a very long time indeed.

 

[Marilyn C]

Verse after verse above says we will be judged, like the sheep, by what we DID or did not do, not by our faith.

Now you do add faith “which brings about works” but that renders the word a passive outcome without any effort or cost to us. That is what “which brings about” means, a passive outcome. That is very misleading.

This is because it’s easy to deceive yourself that you have faith. What about people who have faith and believe the WRONG thing? They have faith, too. It’s less easy to deceive yourself in appearing to be doing his will when you actually do something.

In the dividing of sheep and goats, or the men with the talents, faith isn’t even mentioned. Hebrews 12 gives a list of what those approved of God did. It says they had faith but not faith alone and that faith is seen by their deeds that are actually CHOSEN in faith.

This, of course, you also said above. Faith without works is dead. But the clear scripture is judged by deeds done, not an internal faith. For no one was their believing alone the important part. Deeds result from choosing rightly against doubt or even fear, that is the point of Hebrews 12. If we wait for faith to generate works that please Him, we will wait a very long time indeed.

Hi Dorothy,

This thread is about the `army,` so could you please start your own thread on `good deeds.`

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

This thread is about the `army,` so could you please start your own thread on `good deeds.`

regards, Marilyn.

Ok sorry