Who made God?

[Soul man]

In my sharing the Gospel in my secular Australian culture, I sometimes meet this objection when I begin discussing God: ‘You claim that there is eternal life for all who believe. Who on earth made God? There's no point in going any further unless we can get a satisfactory answer to this question'.

I'm coming at this from a view that these people have no respect for the Bible. To quote the Bible will get an automatic rebuff.

Leading Christian apologist Norman Geisler, in the book Who Made God? And Answers to over 100 Other Tough Questions of Faith (Zacharias & Geisler 2003), addressed the title of the book, Who Made God? (Zacharias & Geisler 2003) this way:

Who Made God?

“No one did,” he wrote. “He was not made. He has always existed” (2003:23).

But, wait! Is this credible? If the universe has a beginning (and modern science has concluded that it indeed DID have a beginning), then wouldn’t God need a beginning as well?

According to Geisler, “Only things that had a beginning – like the world – need a maker. God had no beginning, so God did not need to be made” (2003:23)

Sounds a little like a cop-out, doesn’t it? Not so, says Geisler. Here is more of his answer:

“Traditionally, most atheists who deny the existence of God believe that the universe was not made; it was just “there” forever. They appeal to the first law of thermodynamics for support: “Energy can neither be created nor destroyed,” they insist. Several things must be observed in response.

“First, this way of stating the first law is not scientific; rather, it is a philosophical assertion. Science is based on observation, and there is no observational evidence that can support the dogmatic “can” and “cannot” implicit in this statement. It should read, “[As far as we have observed,] the amount of actual energy in the universe remains constant.” That is, no one had observed any actual new energy either coming into existence or going out of existence. Once the first law is understood properly, it says nothing about the universe being eternal or having no beginning” (2003:24, emphasis added).​

In other words, the first law of thermodynamics does not require a cause or creator for God.

Moreover, if God IS, then He has supernatural power. And the very definition of ‘supernatural’ means that He stands OUTSIDE of nature. If God is God, then God needs no Creator.

As Geisler explained: “It is absurd to ask ‘Who made God?’ It is a category mistake to ask, ‘Who made the Unmade?’ or ‘Who created the Uncreated?'” (2003: 24).

Is this a reasonable approach to answering the question or do you have another and better approach to answering this question from secularists?

Oz

Works consulted
Zacharias, R & Geisler, N (gen eds.) 2003. Who made God? and answers to over 100 other tough questions of faith. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan.

The scripture says God has always been, no beginning of days nor end. I'm sure you know this but unbelievers don't. That is part of accepting Jesus as Savior, you believe that He is, period. If a person can not accept that God has always been, then really there is no accepting Jesus.
Brush your feet off and be led of God to go and minister to those that are hungry. Those that argue truth with you have just not had enough Hell on earth as of yet.
There are some unregenerate, even if they have some truth still want to argue and they needle you like little tormentors, don't waste your time, they will wear you out. Save your energy for another time of pure ministry.

 

[OzSpen]

The scripture says God has always been, no beginning of days nor end. I'm sure you know this but unbelievers don't. That is part of accepting Jesus as Savior, you believe that He is, period. If a person can not accept that God has always been, then really there is no accepting Jesus.
Brush your feet off and be led of God to go and minister to those that are hungry. Those that argue truth with you have just not had enough Hell on earth as of yet.
There are some unregenerate, even if they have some truth still want to argue and they needle you like little tormentors, don't waste your time, they will wear you out. Save your energy for another time of pure ministry.

'Pure ministry' is ministering to those who don't know the Saviour. Many people have been resistant to the Lord God at the first time of Gospel encounter. I will not give up on them.

However, I do recognise the importance of knowing the seed and the nature of the soil:

“A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear (Matt 13:3-8 NIV).​

Oz

 

[calvin]

Hello calvin here,

Yeah that's an issue too. Real facts verses made up facts. I honestly don't know what to say about global warming........

I think with any set of data, the real problem lies with the world view of the 'data smiths'.
It may well be that there is an indication of global warming or climate change to be found within the collected data.
Only human arrogance would say that we caused it, therefore we control it.

 

[Soul man]

'Pure ministry' is ministering to those who don't know the Saviour. Many people have been resistant to the Lord God at the first time of Gospel encounter. I will not give up on them.

However, I do recognise the importance of knowing the seed and the nature of the soil:

“A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9Whoever has ears, let them hear (Matt 13:3-8 NIV).​

Oz

Sure we don't give up on no one, that's not my point.
If a person doesn't even believe God exists, more than likely you are going to be spinning your wheels.
Not to say we may be planting a seed or watering, you're not going to bring the increase.
Do we give a witness, absolutely, why wouldn't we but to try to explain where God comes from and all the nonsense some can toy with you, no. That's been my experience, the world is a school house, leave them to the Father to work through the school house, some folk are just not ready, but we are more than zealous to help God out.
Christianity can already be a peculiar people, it takes the lords wisdom to deal with the world.
He saved you didn't He, He was more than able to reach us, and more than likely He used someone to do it, but whether you understand it or not you were ready.
I hear testimonies that say 'how they were lost and God just came along one day and saved them.
Wish it were that easy, don't you remember the hell you went through, that's my point. Thank God not everyone has to have a living hell to get saved, but most of the testimonies you will hear, that is how they came to know the lord.

 

[Bick]

I would encourage anyone to go reasons.org to get the latest scientific analysis of the beginning of the universe, and how the Genesis account is right in line.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I would encourage anyone to go reasons.org to get the latest scientific analysis of the beginning of the universe, and how the Genesis account is right in line.

I like those guys. I listen to their old podcasts and have a couple of their books.

 

[Gregg T]

I would encourage anyone to go reasons.org to get the latest scientific analysis of the beginning of the universe, and how the Genesis account is right in line.

Hugh Ross of Reasons to Believe, reasons.org, does not accept 6 literal days of creation as taught in Genesis; however, they do convincingly argue for The Lord as Creator.

 

[Jim Parker]

I would encourage anyone to go reasons.org to get the latest scientific analysis of the beginning of the universe, and how the Genesis account is right in line.

Hmmmmm
If you are talking about Genesis 1:1 through 2:3, it is not actually an "account."
It is a genealogy of the heavens and the earth and not meant to be read as the transcript of the video tape.
Ii ancient Middle Eastern literature, a story in introduced by a genealogy. The "story" begins at Gen 2:4 with the revelation of God (Elohim) as "Lord God" (Yahweh Elohim) and the Lord God forming man from the dust of the earth to tend His garden.

I accept the conclusions of Hugh Ross (an astrophysicist) that creation really is 13.7 billion years old (about) and that creation did not go from "big bang" ("Let there be light") to an earth flourishing with millions of varieties of living organisms including man in 6, 24-hour days. That is, IMO, an attempt to force the Bible to be something it was never meant to be.

iakov the fool

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hmmmmm
If you are talking about Genesis 1:1 through 2:3, it is not actually an "account."
It is a genealogy of the heavens and the earth and not meant to be read as the transcript of the video tape.
Ii ancient Middle Eastern literature, a story in introduced by a genealogy. The "story" begins at Gen 2:4 with the revelation of God (Elohim) as "Lord God" (Yahweh Elohim) and the Lord God forming man from the dust of the earth to tend His garden.

I accept the conclusions of Hugh Ross (an astrophysicist) that creation really is 13.7 billion years old (about) and that creation did not go from "big bang" ("Let there be light") to an earth flourishing with millions of varieties of living organisms including man in 6, 24-hour days. That is, IMO, an attempt to force the Bible to be something it was never meant to be.

iakov the fool

100% agree!

 

[Soul man]

Sooo the bible really is a mystery and cant be taken literally, amazing.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Sooo the bible really is a mystery and cant be taken literally, amazing.

No it can't. You take it accurately.

 

[Jim Parker]

Sooo the bible really is a mystery and cant be taken literally, amazing.

Some of it is to be taken literally such as, Jesus really was literally crucified and literally rose again from death.
Some of it is parable; a story to illustrate a truth. (The sower and the seeds.)
Some of it is ecstatic, apocalyptic visions put into human language as best the person who had the vision can. (Ezekiel's wheel)
Some of it is poetry with allegorical meaning. The Song of Solomon is often seen as the story of Christ and the Church.
Some of it is history like the books of Judges, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles.
Some of it is prophesy which contains encouragement, rebuke, admonition, comfort and some predictions.

iakov the fool

 

[Free]

Sooo the bible really is a mystery and cant be taken literally, amazing.

Going along the lines of Papa Zoom, one must define what is meant by "literal." There are some scholars who distinguish between "literal" and "literalistic," where the former means "what the author intended," and the latter, "rigid, word-for-word," which is what most people usually mean by "literal."

As an example, when Jesus says he is the door (John 10:7,9), a literalistic meaning would be that Jesus is actually a talking, wooden door. The literal meaning is that he is the way to salvation; that is what Jesus is trying to convey.

I think this works much better than just using literal because the opposite becomes non-literal, and this causes all sorts of problems since figures of speech are still meant to teach actual truths. For example, to say that one should not take a verse or passage literally because it is allegory or metaphor, seems to imply that there is no actual truth there. But Jesus being our shepherd is a fantastic metaphor that actually teaches us an important truth.

 

[Randy]

In my sharing the Gospel in my secular Australian culture, I sometimes meet this objection when I begin discussing God: ‘You claim that there is eternal life for all who believe. Who on earth made God? There's no point in going any further unless we can get a satisfactory answer to this question'.

I'm coming at this from a view that these people have no respect for the Bible. To quote the Bible will get an automatic rebuff.

Leading Christian apologist Norman Geisler, in the book Who Made God? And Answers to over 100 Other Tough Questions of Faith (Zacharias & Geisler 2003), addressed the title of the book, Who Made God? (Zacharias & Geisler 2003) this way:

Who Made God?

“No one did,” he wrote. “He was not made. He has always existed” (2003:23).

But, wait! Is this credible? If the universe has a beginning (and modern science has concluded that it indeed DID have a beginning), then wouldn’t God need a beginning as well?

According to Geisler, “Only things that had a beginning – like the world – need a maker. God had no beginning, so God did not need to be made” (2003:23)

Sounds a little like a cop-out, doesn’t it? Not so, says Geisler. Here is more of his answer:

“Traditionally, most atheists who deny the existence of God believe that the universe was not made; it was just “there” forever. They appeal to the first law of thermodynamics for support: “Energy can neither be created nor destroyed,” they insist. Several things must be observed in response.

“First, this way of stating the first law is not scientific; rather, it is a philosophical assertion. Science is based on observation, and there is no observational evidence that can support the dogmatic “can” and “cannot” implicit in this statement. It should read, “[As far as we have observed,] the amount of actual energy in the universe remains constant.” That is, no one had observed any actual new energy either coming into existence or going out of existence. Once the first law is understood properly, it says nothing about the universe being eternal or having no beginning” (2003:24, emphasis added).​

In other words, the first law of thermodynamics does not require a cause or creator for God.

Moreover, if God IS, then He has supernatural power. And the very definition of ‘supernatural’ means that He stands OUTSIDE of nature. If God is God, then God needs no Creator.

As Geisler explained: “It is absurd to ask ‘Who made God?’ It is a category mistake to ask, ‘Who made the Unmade?’ or ‘Who created the Uncreated?'” (2003: 24).

Is this a reasonable approach to answering the question or do you have another and better approach to answering this question from secularists?

Oz

Works consulted
Zacharias, R & Geisler, N (gen eds.) 2003. Who made God? and answers to over 100 other tough questions of faith. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan.

Where did God come from?
answer=>I don't know and would expect God to state thats not for you to know or its too wonderful for man to know. But what I do know is that there was no God formed before the Father nor will there be a God formed after Him. And that God stated to man "look up to the heavens who will you compare me to? Have I not made all theses things?" That God asked Job, "where were you when I laid the foundations of the world?"

“To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
26Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one
and calls forth each of them by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

 

[Gregg T]

Ozspen,
I am curious how the conversation went during your last meal with the atheist couple. What questions did they ask if any?

 

[OzSpen]

Ozspen,
I am curious how the conversation went during your last meal with the atheist couple. What questions did they ask if any?

Gregg,

In most of my discussions with atheists I use the following approach, and I do it with this couple:

• Common ground. They are in a retirement village and I'm looking to go into one. Yes, I'm that old. Retirement villages, their benefits and disadvantages are a great conversational piece with him but he's a motor mouth. His wife says he has verbal diarrhoea.
• This gives me a launching pad to ask: Is there a chapel in your village? Does a chaplain come to the village and why does he come? I use a lot of why and what do you consider questions. Here are a few examples:
• John, why would you consider anybody would want to talk with a Christian chaplain?
  
• As they get older, what would cause them to want to deal with the care and knowledge of a Christian chaplain?
• Last Wed, we didn't get to the point of asking him: What thoughts have you ever had about God?
• I'm asking open ended questions that will eventually get to asking the two diagnostic questions of Evangelism Explosion that are particularly relevant for people in retirement villages:
• First: “Do you know for sure that you’re going to be with God in Heaven one day?”
  
• Second, “If God were to ask you why He should let you into His Heaven, what would you say?"

I was hoping to get to the first Q last Wed but it didn't happen as the manager of the venue came to join our table and began talking to John.

They have admitted they were married in a Baptist Church so that will be another piece of information to keep in the back of my mind to raise. Why go to a Baptist Church to be married and not to a secular marriage celebrant?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Where did God come from?
answer=>I don't know and would expect God to state thats not for you to know or its too wonderful for man to know. But what I do know is that there was no God formed before the Father nor will there be a God formed after Him. And that God stated to man "look up to the heavens who will you compare me to? Have I not made all theses things?" That God asked Job, "where were you when I laid the foundations of the world?"

“To whom will you compare me?
Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
26Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens:
Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one
and calls forth each of them by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
not one of them is missing.

Randy,

The Father is God. So is Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three in one, the Trinity (Matt 28:19).

(image courtesy Christianity 201)

See my article: Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?
I live in a very secular society where people ask specific questions like: 'Who made God?'

That may not be important to you, but it is to me.

Oz

 

[reba]

calvin

 

[calvin]

Thank you so much. It is a perfect fit

 

[jaybird]

if someone made the Most High, then who made that someone, and who made that one before him, and on and on. there has to be a starting point, that starting point is the Most High.